Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[Incanus 5,716]

No, that's the Pillars Of Erebor motif (which is an inverted retrogade in lydian mode of the Dwarrowdelf theme with juxtaposed secundal dyads).

Well duh! I can't believe GP didn't notice that right away! It is so obvious.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

After the statement of the Erebor theme at 1:30 in The Courage of Hobbits, does it sound to anyone else like the ending phrase it spins into is a hint at Dwarrowdelf material? Maybe someone noticed it before.

Isn't that ending phrase the ubiquitous four-note figure (as heard, for instance, twice near the start of On the Doorstep).

It does sound rather Dwarrowdelfy at this point.

[Jay 37,374]

Forgot to mention here that the other day I listened to the DOS OST all the way through for the first time in a long while (which for this score was like a week and a half probably lol). Anyways, when the part in "The Hunters" came on that features the Heroics of Legolas bit with the Tauriel's B Theme under it, I had to laugh that I probably listened to the score over 30 times before ever noticing the Tauriel material there... now it's SOOO obvious! And it sounds really awesome too

[Faleel 5,360]

Wow...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

No, that's the Pillars Of Erebor motif (which is an inverted retrogade in lydian mode of the Dwarrowdelf theme with juxtaposed secundal dyads).

Sigh. At least you're learning the lingo.

[KK 3,307]

One of us, one of us!

[Jay 37,374]

Catching up on some old posts I hadn't replied to yet.....

Anyway!

I was wondering about something: what was the Thorin theme statement in The Forest River meant to underscore? Am I right to believe it would have probably played during the Bombur's Bombastic Barrel Bonanza bit? Because I can't think of anything heroïc Thorin does in that scene that lasts long enough to be underscored by the whole statement.

The only thing certain is that it's supposed to underscore a bit taking place after Kili manages to open the gates of the river, and before Legolas walks on the Dwarves' head, if we go by the music.

It is indeed for Bombur's barrel antics.

Does the first glimp of the Laketown politicians theme heard in 'Bard, A Man of Laketown' feature in the film? I don't remember hearing it, and thinking back I can't think of what part it might score. Does Bard mention political matters when talking to Balin?

No, everything after the 2:11 point of the OST track is dialed out in the film, so the rest of the scene (Balin and the company bartering with Bard) plays with no music. The introduction of the Politician's theme would have synced to the lines "No one enters Lake-town but by leave of The Master. All his wealth comes with trade with the Woodland Realm. He would see you in irons before facing the wrath of King Thranduil"

Thanks for that. I was wondering if it might have scored a deleted scene, but people on here have said that the part in 'House of Beorn' is the only bit that seems to have scored deleted footage.

Nope, definitely not a deleted scene, definitely the exact scene in the final cut of the film. They just dialed the music down. That House of Beorn bit is indeed the only deleted scene music on the OST, other than of course short segments chopped out here and there.... for example:

the beginning of that track is also unused actually, which I did find odd as its a rendition of the Bard theme before we ever even see Bard

Footage was deleted showing the company in their barrels before the shot of Bard's foot that the scene now starts with in the final cut. As for why that was scored by Bard's Theme, I dunno. Unless the shots also showed that Bard was watching them in the barrels.

I noticed that, too. That most likely is a cue that was meant for a scene later in the film, but that was put before the reveal of Bard music on the OST.

Nope!

Has Jay (or anyone) done a released/unreleased spreadsheet yet? I'm not going through all 130 pages to find out...

I have made one, yes, but I have not published yet. There's roughly 14 minutes of music heard in the film that isn't on the OST.

~~

Something I recently noticed:

When Tauriel's Theme comes in at 1:10 of The Forest River, it's not just Tauriel's main theme playing - it's actually both her main theme and her B Theme played together at the same time (The B Theme is kind of in the background). Sounds really cool.

[Incanus 5,716]

Interesting observations on those film sequences and the music Jason! I have yet to get my teeth into the music as heard in the film and this is all very educational.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[MedigoScan 324]

I did like some of those renditions of Smaugs theme you hear before 'I am Iron' kicks in

particularly the part in the shaft and when they throw flashbombs at him

oh and Azogs theme still sticks out like a sore thumb

[BloodBoal 7,538]

oh and Azogs theme still sticks out like a sore thumb

What do you mean?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Azog's theme is just a variation on Mordor related material from LOTR.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,360]

That's a problem?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yes. It's lazy!

[Faleel 5,360]

Lazier than using the Mordor theme for Isengard, and then claiming its "evil times"?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Lazier than using the Mordor theme for Isengard, and then claiming its "evil times"?

Don't you mean using the Isengard theme for Mordor? And that was just in one scene!

[Faleel 5,360]

No, I meant what I said.

I was referring to the music for the EE scene/shot of Wormtounge arriving at Isengard, I had thought it was the Evil of the Ring theme, but Doug's book/PDF said it was Evil Times.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

It's the bit at 1'27 in this video, right?

This doesn't sound like The Evil Of The Ring at all. Or Evil Times, for that matter.

[Faleel 5,360]

It sounds like the first three notes of Evil/Evil Times.

from 1:27 to 1:31 of Exodus from Edoras is what I am talking about BTW.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

I was referring to the music for the EE scene/shot of Wormtounge arriving at Isengard, I had thought it was the Evil of the Ring theme, but Doug's book/PDF said it was Evil Times.

The "Evil Times" motif is really just an embryonic form of the "The History of the Ring" / "The Evil of the Ring" themes, anyway, so I can buy that explanation.

In my own attempt an analysing the score a decade ago, I had named those two themes "The Shadow of the Past" and "The Return of the Shadow", respectively. I referred to the "Evil Times" fragment simply as "The Shadow", and listed Wormtongue's arrival at Isengard as one of its (countless) appearances.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

At the outset, yes, but it then metamorphoses into a variation on the Shadow of the Return of Evil theme.

[Faleel 5,360]

The History of the Return of the Treason of the Third Age.

[Jay 37,374]

Anything notable in the 14 minutes?

Apart from the pre-river sequence cue (which you can get via the Spiders Of Mirkwood online game), the microedited bits of the river sequence and that unreleased statement of Gandalf's theme, I'd personally say that's about it.

Yea, I basically agree. For the most part, Shore chose all the important highlights for his OST presentation (I guess an easy thing to do when you have 2 discs to work with).

As BB said, the major highlights missing are the bits missing from the Forest River Chase, plus the Gandalf's Theme statement after he says "It's Undoubtedly a trap!"

Everything else missing is pretty much just bits and bobs here and there, stuff microedited out of cues on the OST, or short cues in between cues chosen for the OST.

I hadn't realized until I analyzed the final film that there is a bunch of music missing in between the Legolas/Bolg Fight and the start of "My Armor Is Iron", however it's definitely not anything earth shattering, definitely not as important as the Smaug action material that made the OST.

[Incanus 5,716]

Yes Shore really did a wonderful job with the soundtrack compiling even though some of it is out of order in the latter half.

[Jay 37,374]

You've know, I've been thinking on and analyzing that lately too, and I think Shore made all the absolutely right decisions with the album assembly.

Well, maybe not assembling 10 minutes of stuff together as The Hunters instead of breaking that music music into 2 or 3 different tracks, but overall, he took a really chaotic third act of music jumping all over the place and made it more straightforward for the album.

It was a very wise move to take the three chunks of Tauriel/Kili music and combine them into the "Kingsfoil" suite, rather than having them each be buried in tracks that are mostly Smaug material, for example.

[MedigoScan 324]

whoops I meant to say the Bolg theme (the cue you hear twice in The Forest River, when he appears and when he spots Kili)

it to me sounded distinct enough from the Necromancer and Azog material even if its a rearrangement

[Jay 37,374]

Yea, I LOVE that Bolg material! it's a big bummer that Shore microedited it out of the OST track

And yea, it's essentially a third new variation of Descending Thirds. I really love how Shore took one them, and re-purposed it for three new characters, and even though it's all the same theme, you instantly know which character a performance is for based on the way it's varied

[Faleel 5,360]

Also, are both statements distinct? or are they the same version inserted into two different spots?

[Jay 37,374]

Distinct, though extremely similar (which is fine by me)

[Incanus 5,716]

Isn't the Bolg material just a rhythmic offshoot of the Descending Thirds?

None the less I kind of like it.

I have no problem with the Azog material being derived and similar to the Necromancer/Mordor music as it is an outgrowth of that particular musical tree. They all lead to the same musical roots.

[Jay 37,374]

Bolg, Azog, and Necromancer are all derived from Descending Thirds, yes.

Unless I am not understanding what you're asking

[MedigoScan 324]

and we are sure it was micro-edited out, rather than in after the OST was completed?

[Faleel 5,360]

Yeah it sounded like an insert, what with that obvious cut/edit.

[Jay 37,374]

I believe there were written in late in the process and not part of Shore's original plan, but the cue was not recorded before they were added.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,374]

Bolg's Theme is a fast, killer version of Descending Thirds backed by pounding drums, I love it.

[Incanus 5,716]

Bolg's Theme is a fast, killer version of Descending Thirds backed by pounding drums, I love it.

Yes the bold rhythm is a nice new energizing way to present it. I wonder how many different spins Shore can give the basic idea before this trilogy is through.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,716]

The problem I have with Azog's theme is that it just sounds exactly like the Necromancer's theme (which logically sounds like the Mordor-related material from LOTR).

I think that's intentional, since Azog is now a lieutenant of Dol Guldur.

Yes, I got that, thank you. That doesn't take away the fact that I wish Shore had written something more distinct for the character.

Nonsense. The Hookhand Captain of the Orckind has a perfect angry bristling little Mordor music derived motif as it is. It's a shame I didn't hear it in the nightmare I saw the other night about Azog attacking my house. There was no action music to give the dream momentum. I must have dialled it out.

[Faleel 5,360]

The problem I have with Azog's theme is that it just sounds exactly like the Necromancer's theme (which logically sounds like the Mordor-related material from LOTR).

I think that's intentional, since Azog is now a lieutenant of Dol Guldur.

Yes, I got that, thank you. That doesn't take away the fact that I wish Shore had written something more distinct for the character.

Alright Quint!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Nonsense. The Hookhand Captain of the Orckind has a perfect angry bristling little Mordor music derived motif as it is. It's a shame I didn't hear it in the nightmare I saw the other night about Azog attacking my house. There was no action music to give the dream momentum. I must have dialled it out.

Hehehe... At least, your dream didn't have tracked music!

[Faleel 5,360]

Ben Burtt may have provided "musical" sound effects.

[KK 3,307]

Nonsense. The Hookhand Captain of the Orckind has a perfect angry bristling little Mordor music derived motif as it is. It's a shame I didn't hear it in the nightmare I saw the other night about Azog attacking my house. There was no action music to give the dream momentum. I must have dialled it out.

Hehehe... At least, your dream didn't have tracked music!

You mean Incanus' dream didn't have the Nazgul Azog vs. Thorin theme?! Blasphemy!!!

[Incanus 5,716]

Ben Burtt may have provided "musical" sound effects.

NOOOOOOOooooo! Burtt has not access to my dreams luckily. He shall not pass!

Nonsense. The Hookhand Captain of the Orckind has a perfect angry bristling little Mordor music derived motif as it is. It's a shame I didn't hear it in the nightmare I saw the other night about Azog attacking my house. There was no action music to give the dream momentum. I must have dialled it out.

Hehehe... At least, your dream didn't have tracked music!

One must count one's small blessings master BB.

Nonsense. The Hookhand Captain of the Orckind has a perfect angry bristling little Mordor music derived motif as it is. It's a shame I didn't hear it in the nightmare I saw the other night about Azog attacking my house. There was no action music to give the dream momentum. I must have dialled it out.

Hehehe... At least, your dream didn't have tracked music!

You mean Incanus dream didn't have the Nazgul Azog vs. Thorin theme?! Blasphemy!!!

Apparently I was trying to keep the Hookhand out of my barred room. It was not heroic enough to warrant such a piece of music. Incanus Scared Witless Theme would have been better to underscore that.

I have been listening to the opening of the DoS score a lot (mostly because I can never get further before something interrupts me! Annoying ) and I have to say Beorn's theme and the surrounding tracks have been growing on me consistently. I really appreciate the moody, grim and aggressive material Shore came up for the character. His music has that kind of earthy and mournful feel to it which is then gradually aroused to tremendous rage in the chase scene. I wish there had been more action music for Beorn as I think Shore could have whipped up some even more frenzied percussion and growling brass for him! TABA might fulfill this wish though! Fingers crossed!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,374]

I have been listening to the opening of the DoS score a lot (mostly because I can never get further before something interrupts me! Annoying ) and I have to say Beorn's theme and the surrounding tracks have been growing on me consistently. I really appreciate the moody, grim and aggressive material Shore came up for the character. His music has that kind of earthy and mournful feel to it which is then gradually aroused to tremendous rage in the chase scene. I wish there had been more action music for Beorn as I think Shore could have whipped up some even more frenzied percussion and growling brass for him! TABA might fulfill this wish though! Fingers crossed!

Beorn's Theme is the one part of my themes list I have not put any time into figuring out yet. Are all the timestamps in my post accurate in regards to that theme?