Video games can never be art

[DreamTheater 131]

DreamTheater, Steef is just passing the time

Yep, and I'm wasting it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Giving up so soon?

Or just realized you cant actually provide a valid argument?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Don't take the bait, don't take the bait! Leave him hanging!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Who is the Rembrand of video games? The Mozart?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I don't know, but the folks at Bethesda are the equivalent of Monet.

[Quintus 5,399]

More and more video games (and please stop referring them as computer games because they are not all played on the 'computer') are interactive storytelling experiences, with complex stories and rich mythology that rival books and film series.

Tell me how those are like board games ???

So there are video games that are like Dungeons and Dragons, or LOTR roleplaying.

I still don't see where the art is!

That's because you haven't played many video games.

[King Mark 3,631]

Who is the Rembrand of video games? The Mozart?

Look at the way a Final Fantasy title is produced. It's like a movie.. there's storyboards, costume designs, character designs, environment design. Even the music is worshiped by some people . These things take years to complete

Just the cut scenes (the parts where you don't play) are pieces of art in themselves

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nor have I seen the Mona Lisa, or listened to Verdi's Requim. But I know they are art!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

What a stupid thread.

[King Mark 3,631]

That's a really stupid arguement

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Yeah, geez. Stop being stupid, Steef.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah screw this, I'm gonna go play Morrowind. And it'll be fucking artful.

[King Mark 3,631]

I rather spend my time in a well crafted videogame than watching TV or reading books now.

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

If sports and games cannot be art, as many here say, then computer games cannot be art either.

I genuinely don't know if you're just trolling, but you keep ignoring the distinction between *playing* a game (which you may liken to sports) and the game itself, which is, technically mostly like (as in: made from similar individual parts as) a film.

Tell me how those are like board games ???

Hey, don't diss board games. Modern board games can be quite sophisticated and well-designed.

[Hlao-roo 389]

They are computer GAMES!

So like chess, darts, cardgames etc

More and more video games (and please stop referring them as computer games because they are not all played on the 'computer') are interactive storytelling experiences, with complex stories and rich mythology that rival books and film series.

Tell me how those are like board games ???

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/

[King Mark 3,631]

Yeah we don't mean the "playing" part of the game. That's just skills.

Maybe Stefancos is only thinking about "arcade" style games, and not the complex story driven open world games

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Stefan hasn't even defined what he means as art.

[Quintus 5,399]

This is great actually. It's like disputing a point with a mini me version of Ebert, but without any of his grace, eloquence, sophistication, intelligence and wit. It's basically like trying to provide insight to a complete drooling nincompoop who licks the windows while riding the bus.

I've never seen someone readily throw themselves to the wolves before!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wolves? Please dude. A bunch of whiny and nerdy gamers?

I still remain unconvinced that something interactive like a video game can be art.

[Quintus 5,399]

And I remain unconvinced that an ignorant fool has a clue what he's talking about

As for who is "whining" in this thread, well...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You KNOW you love me!

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Wolves? Please dude. A bunch of whiny and nerdy gamers?

I still remain unconvinced that something interactive like a video game can be art.

What's your definition of art, sunshine?

[Quintus 5,399]

Only Koray Savas is keeper of the one true answer to that question.

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

I still remain unconvinced that something interactive like a video game can be art.

Can a film be art?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Can a painting be art?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

This is great actually. It's like disputing a point with a mini me version of Ebert, but without any of his grace, eloquence, sophistication, intelligence and wit. It's basically like trying to provide insight to a complete drooling nincompoop who licks the windows while riding the bus.

I've never seen someone readily throw themselves to the wolves before!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The only games Stef has played are Tetris and Pacman. He knows what he's talking about!

[Quintus 5,399]

You forgot Angry Birds. The ignorant buffoon has also played Angry Birds.

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

The only games Stef has played are Tetris and Pacman. He knows what he's talking about!

I would argue that the minimalism and abstract concept of Tetris could potentially be considered art.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Engaging an activity is the fundamental reason we play games, and is the very soul of their art. Many games don’t tell any story at all. Some games eschew graphics almost entirely. But every single game creates an activity. Games allow me to participate in activities that are utterly unlike anything I could do in real life. There’s no analogue for Tetris in some other medium, without the art of games, that is an activity that could never be engaged in. Playing Tetris is like experiencing a gallery room full of abstract paintings, it’s like being in a modern architect’s building, it’s an artistically crafted experience that isn’t necessarily saying anything. But it is artifice with an aesthetic presentation that creates a meaningful and unique response in its audience. I don’t see how an open minded and self-critical person could claim that that it isn’t art.

http://www.culturecrisis.com/2013/08/18/video-games-and-the-nature-of-art/

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The only games Stef has played are Tetris and Pacman. He knows what he's talking about!

I would argue that the minimalism and abstract concept of Tetris could potentially be considered art.

Those games are art, I'm simply pointing out how out of touch he is.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I could give a two hour speech on why Tetris is the perfect game. And art.

[Wojo 2,453]

This notion that games are or aren't art is tedious. I don't really care if games are art. They don't have to be art for me to want them or enjoy them or want to invest my time and money in them. They are what they are. A cheeseburger can never be a filet mignon, but goddamn if that's what I sometimes want.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I could give a two hour speech on why Tetris is the perfect game. And art.

Go!

[King Mark 3,631]

Hmm, not sure Tetris is the right example, it's a pure skill game and the opposite of the ones I can think of

[DreamTheater 131]

Nor have I seen the Mona Lisa, or listened to Verdi's Requim. But I know they are art!

That's because history and society has convinced you they are art.

Much the same way that most people are convinced there is a God, when no one actually has proof.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Wojo nailed it ... 'art' or not be damned, the enjoyability of the playing's the thing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This notion that games are or aren't art is tedious. I don't really care if games are art. They don't have to be art for me to want them or enjoy them or want to invest my time and money in them. They are what they are. A cheeseburger can never be a filet mignon, but goddamn if that's what I sometimes want.

That is actually a very sensible.

Indeed gaming is an activity. Something one does for fun. Like competing in games or cycling, It's a pass time.

Some of you think I am taking the piss, but i really, genuinely don't see where the "art" side of it comes in.

In the design of some games? But chess is a simple but wonderfully designed game that has lasted for hundreds of year or longer now. It generally isnt considered a form of art.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But playing a game and visiting a museum are 2 different things.

[Quintus 5,399]

Stefancos, come back to me when you've played a good few games. Until then, I can't take you seriously.

The only games Stef has played are Tetris and Pacman. He knows what he's talking about!

I would argue that the minimalism and abstract concept of Tetris could potentially be considered art.

Marian, have you played Thomas Was Alone?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stefancos, come back to me when you've played good few games. Until then, I can't take you seriously.

Quintus, come back to me when you've watched a few seasons of Doctor Who. Until then, I can't take you seriously.

[Quintus 5,399]

Poor, that. This isn't a debate about what you think is great and what I think is shit. (or is it....?)

Steef, do you believe film music can be art?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes, though it only rarely is. Like most music isnt art.

[Quintus 5,399]

What would you say to the millions of people out there who are by and large ignorant to the significance of film music, and to any number of them who might tell you they don't see what is so artistic about "music in the background"? What if they laughed at you for claiming Jerry Goldsmith showed great artistry in Star Trek TMP?

You would quietly dismiss them. That's what you would do. You wouldn't take their ignorance seriously.

Now do me a favour and sod off with your petty double standards

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

Hmm, not sure Tetris is the right example, it's a pure skill game and the opposite of the ones I can think of

So?

Indeed gaming is an activity. Something one does for fun. Like competing in games or cycling, It's a pass time.

Some of you think I am taking the piss, but i really, genuinely don't see where the "art" side of it comes in.

In the design of some games? But chess is a simple but wonderfully designed game that has lasted for hundreds of year or longer now. It generally isnt considered a form of art.

Ok, you are just trolling. Either that, or you have me blocked and don't see my posts.

Marian, have you played Thomas Was Alone?

I'd never heard of it, but it sounds very interesting.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Quintus 5,399]

Lol he's such a straw man.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Just because music is an art form doesnt mean ALL music is art. Not all paintings or sculptures are art, not all movies or plays or books are art.