BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 BloodBoal, you are going to be disappointed with this score. I guess I'd better just sell my copy right now and listen to ROTK again.Might as well!Basically (and this is hardly directed to you), if you didn't like the other two Hobbit scores, you're not going to like this one.My biggest complaint about this score is that it feels incomplete. And Karol nailed this point a while back, but there sounds like little connective bits are missing, and that's annoying.Other than that, I love it. But I've only heard it 3 times...still need to get through AUJ and DOS first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I would say that the first disc is perfectly paced and balanced, with only a few noticeable edits (opening of A Thief in the Night anyone?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't really mind this score feeling incomplete. It's just something to get used to after the very generous scores for AUJ and DoS. I think even with the shorter runtime proportionally there must be more music missing here (let's work on the imaginary basis that the OST for AUJ reflects the score featured in the film). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I just realized that was my 10,000th post!! And I wasted it on you BB! Alright, is it time for me to retire now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Remind me - why did I remove my avatar again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Ok the distributor apparently had not delivered the soundtrack today in Finland so no go on getting the soundtrack album. Perhaps this week or the next was the kind estimate of the CD store. Sucks to live in the periphery of the civilised world from the point of view of ordering CDs. Getting this from Amazon UK or some other foreign retailer would have unfortunately taken equally long. Darnation I am mildly miffed.I don't really mind this score feeling incomplete. It's just something to get used to after the very generous scores for AUJ and DoS. I think even with the shorter runtime proportionally there must be more music missing here (let's work on the imaginary basis that the OST for AUJ reflects the score featured in the film).Also leave something new for the Complete Recordings. This will be my delusional mantra from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why did people remove their avatars around here all of a sudden? I don't mind the fake Gandys gone but others seem to have done so as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 That reminds me - F this SW shite, that film's a year away. We need more Gandalf avatars here with the final ME film for a long time about to be released!I'll put a Gandalf avatar up in a bit!http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22758#entry878267)Oi, it pains me how much inaccurate information is in that list / thread now. I REALLY need to update it. Gotta find spare time in my life to work on these things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Oi, I REALLY need to update it. Gotta find spare time in my life to work on these things!Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 That reminds me - F this SW shite, that film's a year away. We need more Gandalf avatars here with the final ME film for a long time about to be released!I'll put a Gandalf avatar up in a bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 And on top of those, once I see BOFA I need to make a complete cue list for that too based on what's in the film since we have no other resources! Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 And on top of those, once I see BOFA I need to make a complete cue list for that too based on what's in the film since we have no other resources! http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22758#entry878267)Oi, it pains me how much inaccurate information is in that list / thread now. I REALLY need to update it. Gotta find spare time in my life to work on these things!Yeah, but you're soon gonna get distracted by all the BOFA thematic analysis talk, then the film's gonna leak, and you'll want to analyze the complete score, then there'll be SW, and JP IV, etc. You'll never get back to AUJ!EDIT: Ha!Oh he will, he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why did people remove their avatars around here all of a sudden? I don't mind the fake Gandys gone but others seem to have done so as well.Fake Gandy?! How dare you!I don't need this! I will diminish, go into the West, and remain Gandalf the White... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Why did people remove their avatars around here all of a sudden? I don't mind the fake Gandys gone but others seem to have done so as well.Fake Gandy?! How dare you!I don't need this! I will diminish, go into the West, and remain Gandalf the White...Oh not you of course. You have your own tidy white robed persona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Listening to the OST again now. Fire and Water is so goddamned awesome! Love the Dragon Sickness stuff in the next few tracks too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 When you say "the West", you mean the John Williams subforum?I was thinking the empty halls of the Welcome subforum.Why did people remove their avatars around here all of a sudden? I don't mind the fake Gandys gone but others seem to have done so as well.Fake Gandy?! How dare you!I don't need this! I will diminish, go into the West, and remain Gandalf the White...Oh not you of course. You have your own tidy white robed persona.Much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Listening to the OST again now.Fire and Water is so goddamned awesome!Love the Dragon Sickness stuff in the next few tracks too!Agreed! The first track opens the album brilliantly! I really love the dragon-sickness concept that was already hinted at in DoS and now the theme migrates to Thorin as he also covets the treasure and is infected in a way by Smaug's greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still don't know what to think of Guardians of the Three. It's somehow both incredibly cool and detailed, and yet absolutely unsatisfying at the time time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I was thinking the empty halls of the Welcome subforum.The new Tol Eressea?I still don't know what to think of Guardians of the Three.It's somehow both incredibly cool and detailed, and yet absolutely unsatisfying at the time time....I wonder if the (full?) film version will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still don't know what to think of Guardians of the Three.It's somehow both incredibly cool and detailed, and yet absolutely unsatisfying at the time time....I kind of know where you're coming from. At the same time it's become one of my favourite cues on album.While I'm trying to avoid listening to this as a whole album, this cue is one I revisit often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still don't know what to think of Guardians of the Three.It's somehow both incredibly cool and detailed, and yet absolutely unsatisfying at the time time....I kind of know where you're coming from. At the same time it's become one of my favourite cues on album.While I'm trying to avoid listening to this as a whole album, this cue is one I revisit often.I think it is surprisingly low-keyed apart from that huge choral assault towards the end. It builds the suspense but does not as such gradually grow into anything but rather keeps an even tone most of the time with few peaks in between. One would have expected perhaps a more fiery and energetic confrontation. I guess it is more of a tense stand-off for the most part, not an all out brawl between the powers of Sauron and the wearers of the Elven rings of power.Again that said I really like the piece for the treatment of many of the themes, especially Gandalf's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 It's endlessly fascinating the way it plays with all those themes and warps and transfigures them in new ways. But it absolutely unequivically does NOT feel like the ending of a major subplot that has been built up in 6 hours of film prior to this! Compare it to Fire and Water, where all the Smaug, Bard, and Girion material prior pays off in this completely satisfying way. You listen to that track and know it's the end of Smaug. You listen to Guardians of the Three and feel like you've heard the beginning of the end of Sauron's big play in Dol Guldur. You don't feel like you've heard the end of that story. But apparently we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 It's endlessly fascinating the way it plays with all those themes and warps and transfigures them in new ways.But it absolutely unequivically does NOT feel like the ending of a major subplot that has been built up in 6 hours of film prior to this!Compare it to Fire and Water, where all the Smaug, Bard, and Girion material prior pays off in this completely satisfying way. You listen to that track and know it's the end of Smaug.You listen to Guardians of the Three and feel like you've heard the beginning of the end of Sauron's big play in Dol Guldur. You don't feel like you've heard the end of that story.But apparently we have.Sauron retreats hence there is no gigantic pay-off for the themes presented here. Surely all of the material will get its fulfilment in Lord of the Rings. But yes it is somewhat odd that this resolution is left rather quiet in comparison to other storylines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yea, but that just makes it less satisfying to listen to now I don't blame HS for this, I blame PJ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Those are all points I agree with. And I've always had a feeling this was going to reflect in the film scene. One fight sequence isn't what I call "payoff".There was so much potential with exploring Dol Goldur in film, but now it all just seems terribly pointless.As for the music, even more than the themes, there's an eerie texture to it all. I love the opening choral phrase, and how it's requoted in more ominous ways throughout the cue. And the organ moment is awesome.By the way, about all the Bard/Laketown stuff. I didn't quite understand why you guys put it under Bard, but lately I finally heard it. How Shore interpolated Bard's theme in this fashion is brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I didn't quite understand why you guys put it under BardHoward Shore named it such, whats not to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I think if PJ was going to end this subplot in such a subdued way, he should have had it all wrapped up in DOS so it wouldn't be stretched out over 2 movies (I mean him actually being in DG, obviously the plot as a whole is now stretched out over 3). It's funny that he built up so many other things into big action battle sequences, but had a chance to do a great Wizard fight here and apparently didn't. Strange choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I didn't quite understand why you guys put it under BardHoward Shore named it such, whats not to understand? I'm talking about the "new" choral melody that always precedes the Laketown theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I didn't quite understand why you guys put it under BardHoward Shore named it such, whats not to understand? I'm talking about the "new" choral melody that always precedes the Laketown theme. Didn't quite realize that was Bard's theme, reconfigured.Now you make even less sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Nvm! I'll talk more about it once I relisten to this stuff again...I may even be hearing stuff lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I think if PJ was going to end this subplot in such a subdued way, he should have had it all wrapped up in DOS so it wouldn't be stretched out over 2 movies (I mean him actually being in DG, obviously the plot as a whole is now stretched out over 3).It's funny that he built up so many other things into big action battle sequences, but had a chance to do a great Wizard fight here and apparently didn't. Strange choice.True. I imagine Saruman says "Leave Sauron to me." and then proceeds to offer him tea and they have a nice tactile conversation and Sauron leaves.Ironfoot quite succintly gathers the Bard/Lake-Town material on one track in its latter half, separated by the quote of the Shire theme retrogrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Maybe the EE will change the nature of the scene. Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Maybe the EE will change the nature of the scene. Who knows.We hope that EE changes a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 We need a White Council/flashback prologue, a longer scene involving Saruman and the aftermath, and then a final White Council meeting as Bilbo and Gandalf stop at Rivendell, giving proper closure for Radagast and setting up FOTR. Heck, they could even have a Rangers of the North appearance here (not Aragorn) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yea, is the stop at Rivendell on the way home even shown in the (theatrical) film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I believe all the reports say the ending of the film after the battle is relatively short. I hope they get to add more beats to Bilbos homeward journey in the EE cut. Also restore Beorn to the film more fully and give Radagast a line or two more to wrap up his storyline some way.And you know what? Billy Boyd's song has wormed its way into my ear. Damnation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still remember when we heard the very first bit of Shore's score (outside of the teaser trailer), it was when the Standard Version of "Radagast The Brown" was released as a promotional bonus track. I thought the new theme was so amazingly cool - I felt like I was in a Middle Earth score, but this theme was so different and new, it really amped up my anticipation of the score. Funny to think here we are at the end of the (theatrical) films, and that theme never got another extensive workout. So many things Shore must have been very long hours working on when making that first score that he never got to pay off or even follow up on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't believe so (re Rivendell stop).Of course, I'm not talking a scene as long as the one in AUJ, but it would be nice to get some closure. They could throw some nice nods in there. Elrond could say Elladan and Elrohir (they have to be mentioned at some point right?) have increased their activities with the Rangers of the North, that Turgon of Gondor has been warned, etc. Paint a decent picture of the strategic situation now with Sauron back in Mordor. And Radagast would get a proper send off, hinting at nature's role in LOTR.Just no Aragorn reference/cameo (not Viggo) please. I thought we might get a completely unnecessary Estel hint but anything more would be too much.I'm intrigued by this. In the EE Bilbo mentions it is the year 1400 by the Shire reckoning, which I believe is the year TA3000 (which is wrong, as Bilbo's 111th Birthday is TA3001 in the book). Is there ever any indication in the films that near 17 years pass between this event and Frodo setting out (so a reference to 3018/3019)? Because I'm trying to work out if the films have bound themselves to Aragorn's age and fucked up, or if they could argue that 17 years do not pass in their version of events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still remember when we heard the very first bit of Shore's score (outside of the teaser trailer), it was when the Standard Version of "Radagast The Brown" was released as a promotional bonus track. I thought the new theme was so amazingly cool - I felt like I was in a Middle Earth score, but this theme was so different and new, it really amped up my anticipation of the score.I was never really fond of the Radagast material (I hate the percussion), though it could have been used interestingly (perhaps more "tamed" down as the tone of the films changed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yup, I would have been fine if toned down versions appeared in DOS and BOFA. At least it would have been SOMETHING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So, I wonder if there will be any music in the Standard not in the SE, I doubt it seeing the edits in Ironfoot, but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I still remember when we heard the very first bit of Shore's score (outside of the teaser trailer), it was when the Standard Version of "Radagast The Brown" was released as a promotional bonus track. I thought the new theme was so amazingly cool - I felt like I was in a Middle Earth score, but this theme was so different and new, it really amped up my anticipation of the score.I was never really fond of the Radagast material (I hate the percussion), though it could have been used interestingly (perhaps more "tamed" down as the tone of the films changed)I really agree with Jay. I loved the entire concept of Radagast's music but was really sad to hear it changed in the film and perhaps more disappointed when there was no follow-up on any of the ideas in the next films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Once 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,365 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 No more what?...MUSHROOMS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 So, I wonder if there will be any music in the Standard not in the SE, I doubt it seeing the edits in Ironfoot, but you never know.Yeah I have been wondering have they just cut music at suitable (or unsuitable) places without actually having anything different on the regular edition tracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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