Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)

[Jay 37,374]

I should know tonight if the Standard features anything the SE doesn't.

[Incanus 5,716]

We need a White Council/flashback prologue, a longer scene involving Saruman and the aftermath, and then a final White Council meeting as Bilbo and Gandalf stop at Rivendell, giving proper closure for Radagast and setting up FOTR. Heck, they could even have a Rangers of the North appearance here (not Aragorn)

And we need a scene with Radagast in Orthanc, discovering that Saruman is a traitor, but before he can warn Gandalf, he is stabbed in the back by the White Wizard, and as he takes his final breath, Saruman could say something like: "No more mushrooms for you! Muhahahahahaha!"

No no no Saruman would proceed to tell Radgy how he should shout in pain when the air is fleeing his lungs because he has been in the army intelligence during the War and knows how a person dies when he is stabbed in the back.

[Faleel 5,364]

So, I wonder if there will be any music in the Standard not in the SE, I doubt it seeing the edits in Ironfoot, but you never know.

Yeah I have been wondering have they just cut music at suitable (or unsuitable) places without actually having anything different on the regular edition tracks.

I have a secret [fools] hope that the Standard version of Guardians of the Three is the film version.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,716]

No no no Saruman would proceed to tell Radgy how he should shout in pain when the air is fleeing his lungs because he has been in the army intelligence during the War and knows how a person dies when he is stabbed in the back.

Hehehe... Well, I'm sure Lee told that story to McCoy (if they even met! Didn't Lee basically shoot all his scenes alone?).

I wonder if Lee did all his Dol Guldur sequence shooting during the White Council shoot in 2011 or did PJ bring him back to the Pinewood Studios to shoot extra material later.

[KK 3,307]

I still remember when we heard the very first bit of Shore's score (outside of the teaser trailer), it was when the Standard Version of "Radagast The Brown" was released as a promotional bonus track. I thought the new theme was so amazingly cool - I felt like I was in a Middle Earth score, but this theme was so different and new, it really amped up my anticipation of the score.

I was never really fond of the Radagast material (I hate the percussion), though it could have been used interestingly (perhaps more "tamed" down as the tone of the films changed)

I really agree with Jay. I loved the entire concept of Radagast's music but was really sad to hear it changed in the film and perhaps more disappointed when there was no follow-up on any of the ideas in the next films.

It's one of my favourite cues in the trilogy. It caught me off guard at first, but man, it's one of the freshest things he wrote for Middle-Earth. I mean why shouldn't Shore be allowed to write zany music about that in a film with naked dwarves playing with each other?!

Everyone always complains about how much "lighter" they want the films and scores to be, and then when you see these kind of sparks of creativity pop up, it surprises me when people complain about it.

I've seen similar complaints for the Smaug material. If you want LotR, go listen to LotR. Let Shore play around and do something different with the musical world he established when he gets the chance!

[Jay 37,374]

I don't understand any of the complains about the Smaug material at all. I think it's perfect for both the book Smaug and film Smaug, and fits in well with the existing LOTR and TH sound, and is also refreshingly original all at the same time. I think he really knocked it out of the park with Smaug's material for sure!

[Faleel 5,364]

I still remember when we heard the very first bit of Shore's score (outside of the teaser trailer), it was when the Standard Version of "Radagast The Brown" was released as a promotional bonus track. I thought the new theme was so amazingly cool - I felt like I was in a Middle Earth score, but this theme was so different and new, it really amped up my anticipation of the score.

I was never really fond of the Radagast material (I hate the percussion), though it could have been used interestingly (perhaps more "tamed" down as the tone of the films changed)

I really agree with Jay. I loved the entire concept of Radagast's music but was really sad to hear it changed in the film and perhaps more disappointed when there was no follow-up on any of the ideas in the next films.

It's one of my favourite cues in the trilogy. It caught me off guard at first, but man, it's one of the freshes things he wrote for Middle-Earth. I mean why shouldn't Shore be allowed to write zany music about that in a film with naked dwarves playing with each other?!

Everyone always complains about how much "lighter" they want the films and scores to be, and then when you see these kind of sparks of creativity pop up, it surprises me when people complain about it.

It just annoys me. Also it reminds me too much of Giacchino and his seeming inability to use any percussion that sounds normal.

[gkgyver 1,646]

No no no Saruman would proceed to tell Radgy how he should shout in pain when the air is fleeing his lungs because he has been in the army intelligence during the War and knows how a person dies when he is stabbed in the back.

Hehehe... Well, I'm sure Lee told that story to McCoy (if they even met! Didn't Lee basically shoot all his scenes alone?).

I wonder if Lee did all his Dol Guldur sequence shooting during the White Council shoot in 2011 or did PJ bring him back to the Pinewood Studios to shoot extra material later.

I thought they shot everything at his house because he can't do much anymore? Or was that just Ian Holm?

[Faleel 5,364]

I don't understand any of the complains about the Smaug material at all. I think it's perfect for both the book Smaug and film Smaug, and fits in well with the existing LOTR and TH sound, and is also refreshingly original all at the same time. I think he really knocked it out of the park with Smaug's material for sure!

Yep! (though I think the statements of Smaug's main theme in AUJ sounded a little too similar to the Mordor music (though I guess it makes sense, since Sauron and Dragons were both servants of Morgoth) sometimes)

[KK 3,307]

There's a very intentional connection between Smaug's and Sauron's themes, which is something interesting to discuss in itself.

But I agree, I wasn't a big fan of the Smaug theme in AUJ, and was pretty disappointed by it. And then Shore did a whole 180 degree turn with it in DoS, and I became Smaug's number one fan!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,364]

But I agree, I wasn't a big fan of the Smaug theme in AUJ, and was pretty disappointed by it.

I like it now. (I always loved the secondary theme, even if it does sound similar to Fred Steiner's Love Theme from Star Trek )

[KK 3,307]

Oh yeah, I like it now too. It's nice to have that variety in the evolution of Smaug's material. And I agree, Smaug's secondary theme is the one I prefer too.

And I refuse to believe Shore is a Trekkie!

It's one of my favourite cues in the trilogy. It caught me off guard at first, but man, it's one of the freshest things he wrote for Middle-Earth. I mean why shouldn't Shore be allowed to write zany music about that in a film with naked dwarves playing with each other?!

Everyone always complains about how much "lighter" they want the films and scores to be, and then when you see these kind of sparks of creativity pop up, it surprises me when people complain about it.

I've seen similar complaints for the Smaug material. If you want LotR, go listen to LotR. Let Shore play around and do something different with the musical world he established when he gets the chance!

"Oh, look at me, I'm KK, I like zany and original music! I'm so much better than you!"

Douchebag.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,364]

Oh yeah, I like it now too. It's nice to have that variety in the evolution of Smaug's material. And I agree, Smaug's secondary theme is the one I prefer too.

And I refuse to believe Shore is a Trekkie!

It's not exactly the same, but has a similar sound to it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbmQ-dSAawE

[gkgyver 1,646]

Did I miss something, or who complains about Smaug's theme?

[Jay 37,374]

BB doesn't like it

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,374]

Well, then you'll love Fire and Water.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Prepare the hate!

[Jay 37,374]

Dim the lights, pour the wine, turn off the internet!

[Incanus 5,716]

So it begins! The final Hobbit listening experience of our times!

[gkgyver 1,646]

Howard Shore's score lacks a narrative focus?!

It's poetry wrapped into music.

[Faleel 5,364]

Howard Shore's score lacks a narrative focus?!

It's poetry wrapped into music.

He is talking about the Smaug vs. Dwarves music.

[Incanus 5,716]

Howard Shore's score lacks a narrative focus?!

It's poetry wrapped into music.

He should have used Goldsmith's streamlined approach. A theme and a motif per film.

[KK 3,307]

The music does a lot of jumping because of the haphazard scenes. That climax isn't exactly you're ideal set piece.

Having said that, I think the action material is great though.

And that choral ending for Smaug is sublime. Glad to hear it reprised in BotFA.

[Barnald 365]

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

[Incanus 5,716]

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

Hehe BBoal being bowled over...

[Faleel 5,364]

The music does a lot of jumping because of the haphazard scenes. That climax isn't exactly you're ideal set piece.

Having said that, I think the action material is great though.

And that choral ending for Smaug is sublime. Glad to hear it reprised in BotFA.

I like that aleatoric bit that reminds me of an action setting of Keep It Secret Keep It Safe ("For many long years we've been friends")

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

Hehe BBoal being bowled over...

Boaled over.

[KK 3,307]

Howard Shore's score lacks a narrative focus?!

It's poetry wrapped into music.

He should have used Goldsmith's streamlined approach. A theme and a motif per film.

Anything but autopilot 90s Goldsmith action please...

[Faleel 5,364]

Howard Shore's score lacks a narrative focus?!

It's poetry wrapped into music.

He should have used Goldsmith's streamlined approach. A theme and a motif per film.

Anything but autopilot 90's Goldsmith action please...

QFT.

[KK 3,307]

The music does a lot of jumping because of the haphazard scenes. That climax isn't exactly you're ideal set piece.

Having said that, I think the action material is great though.

And that choral ending for Smaug is sublime. Glad to hear it reprised in BotFA.

I like that aleatoric bit that reminds me of an action setting of Keep It Secret Keep It Safe ("For many long years we've been friends")

Maybe it's the lack of sleep, but I don't remember what bit you're talking about. Timestamp?

[Faleel 5,364]

7:37 of The Hunters

[Incanus 5,716]

7:37 of The Hunters

You mean the reveal of Barad-dûr brass mayhem is similar to this?

[Faleel 5,364]

Compare to 2:27 to 2:31 of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe.

[KK 3,307]

7:37 of The Hunters

Yes!! Love that bit.

[Incanus 5,716]

Compare to 2:27 to 2:31 of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe.

All I hear is a flute solo. Is the CR track you are talking about?

7:37 of The Hunters

Yes!! Love that bit.

Yeah good stuff!

[KK 3,307]

Compare to 2:27 to 2:31 of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe.

Where are you getting your timestamps from?

Are you talking about the big Barad-dur reveal? I think that's very different.

[Faleel 5,364]

Compare to 2:27 to 2:31 of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe.

All I hear is a flute solo. Is the CR track you are talking about?

From the CR.

The three notes the brass in TH plays reminds me of the three notes the flute in KIS, KIS plays.

[Incanus 5,716]

Compare to 2:27 to 2:31 of Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe.

All I hear is a flute solo. Is the CR track you are talking about?

From the CR.

The three notes the brass in TH plays reminds me of the three notes the flute in KIS, KIS plays.

Coincidental I am sure but an interesting similarity none the less. I have to admit I would never have made the connection on my own in a million years.

[Faleel 5,364]

Nice to hear The Woodland Realm theme with Lothlorien orchestration (Sarangi or Monochord) BTW

[Incanus 5,716]

Nice to hear The Woodland Realm theme with Lothlorien orchestration (Sarangi or Monochord) BTW

Yeah I noticed that too. As you say a nice little orchestrational detail bringing the two elven cultures closer together.

[Jay 37,374]

Love the twists and turns Woodland Realm theme takes in this score!

[Incanus 5,716]

Love the twists and turns Woodland Realm theme takes in this score!

Yes and Shore uses a lot of what seemed like underscore from the DoS track The Woodland Realm in the new score as dramatic expansion point for the theme. Even the chilling quote of Mirkwood theme underscoring Thranduil's dialogue and threats in DoS is here.

[Jay 37,374]

yea, I think I know what you're talking about, I think I noticed that last night.

[Faleel 5,364]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

[Jay 37,374]

Yea, that opening is indeed really cool, noticed that last night too. Great orchestration there.

[Incanus 5,716]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

While Shore sometimes quotes things note-for-note (e.g. the Minas Morgul music for Sauron's reveal in DoS) I just love these small variations he gives to the material to make it sound fresh yet familiar. The opening oboe solo in Mithril is a good example that. He does not just reprise the little gesture, he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

It is actually easier to "read" Shore's music after all these scores and the so called vocabulary and grammar of his musical narration have become so familiar. I think it all just felt familiar from the first listen in that you knew the narrative structures of this music and can almost tell the exact events taking place while this music plays.