Howard Shore's The Battle of the Five Armies (Hobbit Part 3)

[Faleel 5,365]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

[Incanus 5,716]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

Is Pope again having the strings play detuned in there with the Smaug's theme? It sounds again so nasty.

[Faleel 5,365]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

I know. I meant the clarinet as well, it sounds like a "malleable-d" version of Thorin's theme.

[Incanus 5,716]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

I know. I meant the clarinet as well, it sounds like a "malleable-d" version of Thorin's theme.

Oh actually you are quite right. My mistake. Although we would have to check this in the film. Shore usually has these very specific small gestures associated very precisely with shots of the characters in the dialogue scenes. That would confirm it!

But it also goes to show that apart from the obvious thematic statements this music requires some keen listening.

[gkgyver 1,646]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

I know. I meant the clarinet as well, it sounds like a "malleable-d" version of Thorin's theme.

Oh actually you are quite right. My mistake. Although we would have to check this in the film. Shore usually has these very specific small gestures associated very precisely with shots of the characters in the dialogue scenes. That would confirm it!

That is before Jackson gets his hands on it, and haphazardly replaces characters with CGI creatures.

[Incanus 5,716]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

I know. I meant the clarinet as well, it sounds like a "malleable-d" version of Thorin's theme.

Oh actually you are quite right. My mistake. Although we would have to check this in the film. Shore usually has these very specific small gestures associated very precisely with shots of the characters in the dialogue scenes. That would confirm it!

That is before Jackson gets his hands on it, and haphazardly replaces characters with CGI creatures.

Or recuts the whole thing. But that danger is something we must face head on with every film he makes!

[Faleel 5,365]

But it also goes to show that apart from the obvious thematic statements this music requires some keen listening.

Sometimes it can even be annoying, trying to listen to the music, but trying remember what theme it is at the same time!

[KK 3,307]

I love the opening of Mithril (well the whole thing is great of course )

he makes it a starting point for the hobbity music that follows.

Which sounds related to Thorin's theme

I meant the clarinet not the strings that come after. That is clearly Thorin material.

I know. I meant the clarinet as well, it sounds like a "malleable-d" version of Thorin's theme.

Oh actually you are quite right. My mistake. Although we would have to check this in the film. Shore usually has these very specific small gestures associated very precisely with shots of the characters in the dialogue scenes. That would confirm it!

That is before Jackson gets his hands on it, and haphazardly replaces characters with CGI creatures.

You mean IMPROVES it. Just look at the new Bree. Technology has it made it SOOOO much better!!

[Incanus 5,716]

But it also goes to show that apart from the obvious thematic statements this music requires some keen listening.

Sometimes it can even be annoying, trying to listen to the music, but trying remember what theme it is at the same time!

Quite true. You have become so "trained" to perking your ears at every note and searching thematic connections it can sometimes hamper the pure listening pleasure. But that does not happen all the time and mostly I just enjoy the music without making mental theme list for every track.

[KK 3,307]

I don't know, I found it easier with this score so far. Not sure why, because there are so many more references, and often handled more craftily and in clever ways. Maybe because I've soaked myself in so much Middle-Earth music over the years?

The Mithril music I recognized instantly though.

[Faleel 5,365]

So, is the beginning of Battle for the Mountain, Tauriel's theme?

0:02 to 0:10 and 0:31 to 0:40?

[KK 3,307]

No. I think that's just the motif the action cue is based on (I like how it's echoed on timp too).

[Bilbo 3,709]

IE, on the entire first disc I only found it at 5:42 of Gathering of the Clouds, 1:53 of Mithril, and 2:05 of Clouds Burst. Other than those short bits, his scenes must be scored by either Dragon Sickness or House of Durin....

Yes. That's the psychological thriller Jackson was on about. Thorin struggles with dragon sickness and that's what his scenes are primarily scored with.

[KK 3,307]

I'm guessing Mithril underscores that "drowning in gold" scene I've heard about?

[Faleel 5,365]

I'm guessing Mithril underscores that "drowning in gold" scene I've heard about?

Nah, from what I know, that would appear later in the film....

I have the rhythm from Dain's arrival in The Clouds Burst stuck in my head.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Yea, is the stop at Rivendell on the way home even shown in the (theatrical) film?

No.

I'm guessing Mithril underscores that "drowning in gold" scene I've heard about?

No. Him giving Bilbo the coat, suspecting one of the Dwarves of stealing the Arkenstone, and the Dwarves marching through Erebor (as seen in the trailer) in their battle armour for the first time.

[KK 3,307]

I loved the rhythm since I heard it in the sample. The doubling flutes are what really sell it to me.

[Faleel 5,365]

, suspecting one of the Dwarves of stealing the Arkenstone,

So Gollum IS in the this film!

I loved the rhythm since I heard it in the sample. The doubling flutes are what really sell it to me.

I love when The Woodland Realm theme appears (probably my favorite statement of the theme next to its introductory statement in AUJ...)

[Bilbo 3,709]

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

Hits me every time! That start! House of Durin AND Thorin with Khuzdul!!!

[Barnald 365]

What scenes do the martial variations of the Laketown and House of Durin themes score at the end of Mithril? A standoff between Bard and Thorin? I trust this music is in the film?

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

Hits me every time! That start! House of Durin AND Thorin with Khuzdul!!!

But it is all in the film right (at least the first 50 seconds or so)? And is the scene as good as it sounds? It's the one moment I'm really looking forward to, have been for years (they robbed me of Beorn and the brothers dying while defending their uncle)

[Bilbo 3,709]

What scenes do the martial variations of the Laketown and House of Durin themes score at the end of Mithril? A standoff between Bard and Thorin? I trust this music is in the film?

If BB isn't bowled over by 'Sons of Durin' there's nothing that can be done for him I'm afraid

Hits me every time! That start! House of Durin AND Thorin with Khuzdul!!!

But it is all in the film right (at least the first 50 seconds or so)? And is the scene as good as it sounds? It's the one moment I'm really looking forward to, have been for years (they robbed me of Beorn and the brothers dying while defending their uncle)

As far as I remember it is the first meeting between Bard and Thorin with regards to the gold. I'm a bit removed from the film now so I can't remember. Everything is starting to get muddled.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,365]

So, the first listen is over... First impression: mixed

The first CD is rather with many moments, while the second CD is pretty much with some moments...

I feel the opposite! the first CD is rather with very few moments

But maybe its because I have listened to the samples so much.

[KK 3,307]

Yes, this score has the worst mix of all 6. I noticed that from the samples. Nothing sounds like synth though...

[Faleel 5,365]

And I have listened to the SE not the standard.

[Barnald 365]

You fucktard BB

[Faleel 5,365]

Nothing sounds like synth though...

He thought the AUJ trailer music sounded like synth, and he said the Choir in AUJ sounded like synth too.

[KK 3,307]

BB's definition of synth is different from the norm I'm sure. So yeah, he's a fucktard for that.

But he's not wrong about the mix. This score could really use the LotR wetness. I think it's just too dry?

[Faleel 5,365]

But he's not wrong about the mix. This score could really use the LotR wetness. I think it's just too dry?

It also sounds wierd, in that it almost sounds like it has a cold....

At least thats the only way I can describe it...

[KK 3,307]

Yeah. It's stuff like that that makes me wish the LPO and Shore were still involved at the recording

[Jay 37,376]

I didn't notice anything different about the mix.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Fucktard!

But you're right, however, I think it's mainly the percussion that sounds dry. And what I notice is the mix of the string rhythms. There are these dry string patterns that are more prevalent in modern scoring than the world of Middle-Earth until now. DoS had it to some extent, but not as pronounced as here.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

If anything I thought this sounded the most like the LOTR mix.

[Jay 37,376]

Maybe it's the way it was mastered. Compare the main OST to Thrain maybe?

[Faleel 5,365]

Yeah. It's stuff like that that makes me wish the LPO and Shore were still involved at the recording

Its Kurlander that we need.

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Symphony ruined him!

At least it doesn't seem to be as compressed.

[KK 3,307]

If anything I thought this sounded the most like the LOTR mix.

Nah, it's not even close.

Recording/mastering, whatever it is, AUJ still sounds the closest in sound (and I'm not referring to the composition here).

[gkgyver 1,646]

But he's not wrong about the mix. This score could really use the LotR wetness. I think it's just too dry?

It also sounds wierd, in that it almost sounds like it has a cold....

At least thats the only way I can describe it...

Yeah! I noticed it especially in Fire And Water, there are parts where the trombones and trumpets sound like they were recorded through a glass window or something.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

AUJ is too bright, DOS is too dark... this one doesn't seem to be skewed in one direction or another. It's natural sounding. Mic'd a bit more distantly, with more reverb, I think it'd be pretty similar to TTT.

It does sound like there are some spot mics on the inner strings which is very un-Shore.

[Faleel 5,365]

Maybe it has something to do with the way Shore used the choir this time around, but I'm not a huge fan of the sound of it in these scores. There are moments when it's fine (the end of My Armor Is Iron, for example) but then there are moments like that bit I mentioned in The Woodland Realm where it sounds "unnatural" to me.

And I still think its just that we are so used to the CR mix of the choir, where most of it is buried deep in the mix, a lot of the choir in the film mixes of the LOTR films sound a lot like we hear in Hobbit

I think it'd be pretty similar to TTT.

TTT is more like AUJ, just less obnoxious bass and brightness.

I think you were talking about Brass Buttons.

[KK 3,307]

AUJ is too bright, DOS is too dark... this one doesn't seem to be skewed in one direction or another. It's natural sounding. Mic'd a bit more distantly, with more reverb, I think it'd be pretty similar to TTT.

It does sound like there are some spot mics on the inner strings which is very un-Shore.

Really? I'm certainly no expert when it comes to the way things are recorded, but it doesn't sound like that at all to me.

AUJ sounds the best, even if it doesn't sound as good as LotR (again, NOT referring to the composition).

DoS sounded more "thin" if you will, or I suppose "dark" as you call it.

BotFA is even more skewed in that direction, to the point that it is annoying.

[Faleel 5,365]

BOTFA sounds "soft" to me, especially the solo stringed instrument in Shores of the Long Lake.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Interesting how people hear this stuff differently. Fal, I don't think TTT sounds remotely like AUJ. They're total opposites in my mind.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I'm on track 4, and it does kind of sound like something is between me and the orchestra, or that I'm at the other end of a very large hall. Not the best mix. Took a quick listen to The Hunters, and they sound relatively similar.

But musically, it's rather interesting, although still a bit too much jumping between styles and themes.

Thinking back, most of my lesser-liked themes were in AUJ (mostly the happy-go-lucky Bilbo material - doesn't do anything for me). DoS introduced some nice themes which Shore has continued here. It's pretty good so far.

[KK 3,307]

The "thinness" of the sound is really obvious to me in the ostinato stuff, or the percussion bits. That's where it sounds like it could use some serious reverb.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Maybe it has something to do with the way Shore used the choir this time around, but I'm not a huge fan of the sound of it in these scores. There are moments when it's fine (the end of My Armor Is Iron, for example) but then there are moments like that bit I mentioned in The Woodland Realm where it sounds "unnatural" to me.

And I still think its just that we are so used to the CR mix of the choir, where most of it is buried deep in the mix

That's possible, yes. I'm no expert when it comes to mixes, and the way the choir is mixed in LOTR never bothered me in any way as it seems to bother a lot of people. Maybe the choir mix in the Hobbit scores is actually better, but my preference goes to the LOTR mix. Maybe I just like shitty choir mixes...

I always felt the choir was criminally under-mixed in DoS.

It's better in this score though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

Perhaps we are one and the same Alvar. Two faces of the same coin.