Thomas Newman's SPECTRE

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

I prefer it to Skyfall. It's more confident.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Are we arriving at a point where even the music in Bond films is succumbing to navel gazing? Bloody hell, give me another Hovercraft Chase. At least that has a deliciously snappy theme instead of bop-bop-freaking-bops.

Why not finally get Zimmer to do something super-pseudo-intellectual so that we arrive at the tip of the iceberg, so we can finally return to something enjoyable again.

[crocodile 8,013]

Would you guys say it's better than Skyfall?

Might be.

Karol

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Are we arriving at a point where even the music in Bond films is succumbing to navel gazing? Bloody hell, give me another Hovercraft Chase. At least that has a deliciously snappy theme instead of bop-bop-freaking-bops.

Why not finally get Zimmer to do something super-pseudo-intellectual so that we arrive at the tip of the iceberg, so we can finally return to something enjoyable again.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Are we arriving at a point where even the music in Bond films is succumbing to navel gazing? Bloody hell, give me another Hovercraft Chase. At least that has a deliciously snappy theme instead of bop-bop-freaking-bops.

Why not finally get Zimmer to do something super-pseudo-intellectual so that we arrive at the tip of the iceberg, so we can finally return to something enjoyable again.

You're back? Oh well. There's another thread that's become uninhabitable.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Simple solution.

[gkgyver 1,645]

A Bond end title piece that starts with some electronic pounding and a wailing woman? Someone pinch me, it's not possible that someone thought this would fit Bond.

It's a cross between Michael Kamen extra light and freaking Eric Serra.

Every single soundtrack in the history of the series is better than this. And that includes both Dr. No AND Goldeneye.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

It's practically the same score, only with the slight advantage of being the first Newman score in the series. Skyfall is vastly superior to this. Which says something.

What a shame that a composer thinks a Bond film only needs the Bond theme as a melodic hook. Write a fresh theme, you lazy bastard.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I prefer it to Skyfall. It's more confident.

This is pretty much the deal, yeah. The music is quite comfortable in its world. I do have to listen more to Skyfall though. The album is just a tad long....

[gkgyver 1,645]

So, Newman turned Bond music into something you need to be in the mood for, that you can't get into on first listen, that needs more understanding.

Depressing.

Holy shit, where did it go wrong ...

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

BTW Karol, I did finally read your review. Great stuff.

Any thoughts about Newman's orchestrations? Is it just me or does he never prominently mix the families together in doublings or anything? Makes for a very lean sound.

[KK 3,307]

BTW Karol, I did finally read your review. Great stuff.

Any thoughts about Newman's orchestrations? Is it just me or does he never prominently mix the families together in doublings or anything? Makes for a very lean sound.

I think this really allows him to play with textures post-recording. The videos Sharky posted, nicely give insight to that process. But I also think it disservices his brass sound, at least for his drama scores.

[publicist 4,643]

So we can conclude that Coolman stays Coolman and, if he will get the chance for a third brawl, probably will deliver more of the same. Despite the usual rhetorical overengineering by TGP and Sharky i'm still not convinced that loud blockbuster action scoring is his forte but what he does in between remains some of the most interesting stuff from the series. Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

[MedigoScan 324]

Worse than Goldeneye?

Lets not say things we cant take back now

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

It's almost herecy to say this, but you are right. There's a lot of suspense or action material that doesnt differ very much from film to film. Especially in his 70's and 80's Bond scores.

[crocodile 8,013]

I'm seeing the film tomorrow night. Can't wait. Wanted to go tonight but there's too much to do and I haven't got time.

Karol

[gkgyver 1,645]

Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

It's almost herecy to say this, but you are right. There's a lot of suspense or action material that doesnt differ very much from film to film. Especially in his 70's and 80's Bond scores.

Difference: that material was worthwhile in the first place.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

So we can conclude that Coolman stays Coolman and, if he will get the chance for a third brawl, probably will deliver more of the same. Despite the usual rhetorical overengineering by TGP and Sharky i'm still not convinced that loud blockbuster action scoring is his forte but what he does in between remains some of the most interesting stuff from the series. Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

This post is the only rhetorical overengineering I see in this thread!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Worse than Goldeneye?

Lets not say things we cant take back now

Goldeneye was a dreadful listen 95%, but it had its own voice, produced one or two classic cues (St. Petersburg drive, Goldeneye Overture), and had a nice romantic theme. Newman has none of this. It's generic modern string chopping, paired with brass lines that go nowhere, it's fragmented to no end, has no distinct tone other than Newman's own mostly, and introduces elements that never were part of Bond, and for good reason. Bond scores are their own niche, always have been, that's their appeal. Spectre, as well as Skyfall, are random scores that happen to have the James Bond theme shoehorned in.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

It's almost herecy to say this, but you are right. There's a lot of suspense or action material that doesnt differ very much from film to film. Especially in his 70's and 80's Bond scores.

My key problem with Barry. And Benny too. There's so much of that to wade through. I realize that you could throw Shore into this category (though less easily) but it's somehow more just a part of his style, whereas with the other two it's a bizarrely boring characteristic of two highly touted dudes. One wonders how so many ardent film music fans who dutifully list them at the top of their favorites can't endure similar things that they almost certainly waste no time in critiquing....

Anyway, an additional listen to this cements it as part of the small portion of worthwhile music created for mainstream films this year, and it's pretty handily the best of that small portion. Interesting to hear such a natural take on the "spy" sound after the constructed pastiche of Ant-Man and the latest Mission: Impossible joint. Here is a score of wildly greater sonic and harmonic color than either of those, which would probably fit their films better even though it isn't even trying to sound like that "era."

[gkgyver 1,645]

"Subtlety is no virtue in a Bond score"

If people in charge and Newman himself took that insanely true statement by John Barry by heart, we weren't damned to settle for beefed up ambient musac, intentionally borified to appear super-serious.

That's another advantage Goldeneye has: it was electronic trash, too, but at least it sparked some joie de vivre, and fun, albeit annoying fun. Newman is no fun.

And once you suck the fun out of something that always has lived on fun, you end up with something pretentious like Man of Steel, or Spectre.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Or your posts?

Though I see no evidence that your contributions have ever had much to do with fun.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Use the ignore function, I don't reply to your provocations either. Just don't read what you don't like.

[publicist 4,643]

So we can conclude that Coolman stays Coolman and, if he will get the chance for a third brawl, probably will deliver more of the same. Despite the usual rhetorical overengineering by TGP and Sharky i'm still not convinced that loud blockbuster action scoring is his forte but what he does in between remains some of the most interesting stuff from the series. Lest we forget that John Barry wrote a lot of rather drab suspense material over the years when he wasn't hanging on one of his super-catchy themes.

This post is the only rhetorical overengineering I see in this thread!

Noted. You now go can back to your precious lydian overtones and hungarian bpm tone clusters and stuff them deep in this brown parlour of yours.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Use the ignore function, I don't reply to your provocations either. Just don't read what you don't like.

The chances of me kindly ignoring you after you tell me to do so are zero. This is the moment when it becomes fun!

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'm not saying, I'm suggesting. But if you enjoy it, god bless. Chances are that a score can't be all that enjoyable if some music theory guy has to explain in chord names and church modes why exactly one has to enjoy it.

Same reason the latest Williams scores have a lukewarm reception, to be kind.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

My key problem with Barry. And Benny too. There's so much of that to wade through. I realize that you could throw Shore into this category (though less easily) but it's somehow more just a part of his style, whereas with the other two it's a bizarrely boring characteristic of two highly touted dudes.

I don't get why you hold this double standard. Repetition of simple motivic cells was just as much a part of Barry and Benny's proto-minimalist style as it is Shore's. Sometimes it was tiring and in others hauntingly hypnotic, such is the nature of that style.

"Subtlety is no virtue in a Bond score"

Barry was dead wrong in that statement, as he was when he recommended David Arnold to Barbara Broccoli, or when he dismissed his Bond scores as "Million-dollar Mickey Mouse music."

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

My key problem with Barry. And Benny too. There's so much of that to wade through. I realize that you could throw Shore into this category (though less easily) but it's somehow more just a part of his style, whereas with the other two it's a bizarrely boring characteristic of two highly touted dudes.

I don't get why you hold this double standard. Repetition of simple motivic cells was just as much a part of Barry and Benny's proto-minimalist style as it is Shore's. Sometimes it was tiring and in others hauntingly hypnotic, such is the nature of that style.

Yeah I know there's no real logic to it. I phrased it poorly though, because I'm just as bored by some of Shore's meandering scores as I am the other two. But I guess maybe it's that Shore has an overall conservative/neoclassical sort of sound so it's less jarring with him when coupled with moments of greater interest. It's a starker contrast when put against Barry or Herrmann at their most colorful.

[publicist 4,643]

I think both gentlemen are no match for Herrmann when it comes to hypnotic cells, at least when he's at the top of his game.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

What would you say is an example of that?

[publicist 4,643]

DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL, several TWILIGHT ZONE episodes, probably underscore from PSYCHO or VERTIGO, Journey to the Center of the Earth...

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

That's largely because Benny's orchestration chops, when you think about it. If you reduced all three to piano reductions there'd be a more level playing field.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Sounds like a fun experiment….

[publicist 4,643]

That's largely because Benny's orchestration chops, when you think about it. If you reduced all three to piano reductions there'd be a more level playing field.

When i start reducing orchestral works to piano reductions i might finally get to love Randy Edelman.

[KK 3,307]

Well, that was...disappointing.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Sami's Randy Edelman transcriptions for 2 finger piano?

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Well, that was...disappointing.

Why am I not surprised?! You've changed man. Under the influence of BloodyBowl.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[gkgyver 1,645]

The eternally long stretches of ambient noises in this score are hard to tolerate for anyone who values melody. It's easily the least melodic and least memorable score of the 24.

I'm currently watching Goldeneye, and can again confirm it is a better score than Spectre.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Laugh it up, fuzzboal. But in the coming war for JWFan's soul, you will not prevail!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

The eternally long stretches of ambient noises in this score are hard to tolerate for anyone who values melody.

And of course it's impossible to value both ambient music and melody...

[crocodile 8,013]

Well, that was...disappointing.

Why am I not surprised?! You've changed man. Under the influence of BloodyBowl.

He's still young, wisdom will come eventually.

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Well, that was...disappointing.

Why am I not surprised?! You've changed man. Under the influence of BloodyBowl.

Doh!

But yeah, maybe I'll warm up to it over time. It definitely has its moments (Donna Lucia, Snowplane), but I feel like a lot of Skyfall's character has been lost here. Spectre plays more like a standard Newman thriller score, without as much of the suaveness of its predecessor. And a lot of Skyfall is surprisingly reprised here, which wouldn't really matter, except for the fact that those reprises are mostly what you come out of the album remembering.

This score might be more "consistent", but it's missing memorable grooves like "New Digs", "Shanghai Drive" and "Quartermaster" or the moving brass chorales a la "Mother". It does match Skyfall's "Severine" with some lovely string writing in "Donna Lucia" and "Madeleine". Atmosphere-wise, it seems to just build upon pre-existing textures in Skyfall. And even in ballsy action cues, it really only has "Snowplane" in its favour.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crocodile 8,013]

Well, that was...disappointing.

Why am I not surprised?! You've changed man. Under the influence of BloodyBowl.

Doh!

But yeah, maybe I'll warm up to it over time. It definitely has its moments (Donna Lucia, Snowplane), but I feel like a lot of Skyfall's character has been lost here. Spectre plays more like a standard Newman thriller score, without as much of the suaveness of its predecessor. And a lot of Skyfall is surprisingly reprised here, which wouldn't really matter, except for the fact that those reprisals are mostly what you come out of the album remembering.

This score might be more "consistent", but it's missing memorable grooves like "New Digs", "Shanghai Drive" and "Quartermaster" or the moving brass chorales a la "Mother". It does match Skyfall's "Severine" with some lovely string writing in "Donna Lucia" and "Madeleine". But even in ballsy action cues, it really only has "Snowplane" in its favour.

Listen again! And again! And again!

Till you like it!

Karol

[KK 3,307]

Laugh it up, fuzzboal. But in the coming war for JWFan's soul, you will not prevail!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

JWFAN: Ragnarök! It's coming!

[crocodile 8,013]

JWFAN: Ragnarök! It's coming!

July 28, 2017.

Karol

[Hlao-roo 389]

But yeah, maybe I'll warm up to it over time. It definitely has its moments (Donna Lucia, Snowplane), but I feel like a lot of Skyfall's character has been lost here. Spectre plays more like a standard Newman thriller score, without as much of the suaveness of its predecessor. And a lot of Skyfall is surprisingly reprised here, which wouldn't really matter, except for the fact that those reprisals are mostly what you come out of the album remembering.

Reprises?