Many 0 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I was going through some of my older CDs the other day and came across the following written by King in the liner notes for the soundtrack to Stephen King's The Stand (composed by W.G. Snuffy Walden). "Epic music is sometimes okay -- that big old sixteen thousand-track John Williams thang -- but sometimes it's not okay, even when the show the music is meant for is, like The Stand, epic in scope."So, what do you all think. Is there a true dislike for Williams's music here, or is King merely making the same general assumption that so many others do: that John only writes big brassy stuff like Star Wars, Superman and Indiana Jones.BTW, King does recover himself a little while later to a degree when he says: "The feel of a story is another thing, though, and while many different departments work together to create that feel, the style and emotional coloring of the music is the most important."Anthony - looking forward to hearing the collective opinion of the Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Stephen King sucks.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Stephen King sucks. Stefancos- Coulnd't agree more... mainly after I was told that king didn't liked Kubrick's masterfull version of The Shinning, but likes the crapy tv version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBL 0 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Funny... i was interviewed with a friend in a radio tonight about a concert I'm going to conduct tomorrow... and the interviewer talk about film music and john williams, and at one point, the very same question:"but don't you think this kind of repertoire is only marketing, that for instance john williams write the same way for the film he has to score, due to a certain short amount of time he has to compose ?"I was pissed off inside... but... my friend and I argued:" well, it is true that certain amount of nowadays scripts are written the very same way: an action scene there, a love scene there, a pursuit here..." the very question is to say whether a composer uses tricks to compose a music to the scene... there are certainly a few composers that just copy and paste his music (and I forgot to mention Horner, what a shame), some other just use his experience and own knowlegde to give his best on a score... inevitably, and I'd say fortunately, you're able to hear whether it's Williams who composed this score or Newton Howard, or Morricone... that's what make a great composer recognizable. When you hear either sympphony from Brahms, you can tell its Brahms... even if it's not the same work...As a conclusion, i'd say Williams has several range of his music langage... let's speak about Schindler's List... what are the similarities between Schindler's List's music and Superman's ? What is the connexion between Sabrina and Close Encounters ? Jurassic Park and the Reivers ? Hopefully, film music composers do have a lot of different genre of film to score... that's what probably makes their style evolve for our own ears' pleasure only :)"End of answer.well, I hope I've answered well to this eternal question. Then I was a little less pissed off has I've seen a true and sincere smile on the head of the interviewer (who is by the way a very good violinist and musicien... but maybe a little too classical elitist... well not any more I hope ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Good answer!Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 well, i don't mind Stephen's books but i wouldn't take anything he says about scores with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Stephen King sucks. Stefancos- Coulnd't agree more... mainly after I was told that king didn't liked Kubrick's masterfull version of The Shinning, but likes the crapy tv version.AMEN, AMEN, AMENKing sucks Goldsmith "Bloody Christmas" from L.A. Confidential Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Stephen King is a great artist on the same level as John Williams.Many of his books will stand the test of time, and he will be remembered above even Poe, Dickens, and Lovecraft, as the greatest horror writer of all time. And to limit his praise to just that of a horror writer is to do him a great injustice. Granted he has written shlock, and some of the movies made of his works are terrible(the afore mentioned The Shining included).For Miguel and Stefan to say the things they do, shows little understanding of the man and his works. I truely doubt either has ever read any or even one of Stephen's books.there is a reason he hates Kubrick version, as do I. It bears no resemblense of his work. It is a bastardized version, that is so devoid of anything that makes it such a great novel. It features some terrible acting by both main cast members. Its no wonder that King prefers the tv miniseries(which by the way was highly rated, and critically acclaimed), for its accurate presentation of his vision.Joe, who is as big a Stephen King fan as he is a John Williams fan, and who does not take what Steve says as a dig towards Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hector - ... thinking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I don't want to discuss this, but I have to say that, even if Kubrick has deviated from King's original conception, I still find it a masterpiece, much better than King's original... But that is my opinion only, and I'll keep from posting on this again, since I don't know this writter that well, and have to agree that saying he sucks based on a couple of things I've read from him is not nice.Neverthelees, I have to say one thing about your comemt, Joe... I really don't think that King will remembered above Poe or Dickens... That would be the same to say that Williams would be remembered above Beethoven, Bach or Mozart, God forbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many 0 Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 I really don't think that King will remembered above Poe or Dickens.I took a Shakespeare course last semester, and at one point we started talking on the topic of King. My instructor said that she believes some (not all, but some) of King's works will be looked on in the future in much the same way as we look on Shakespeare's works: timeless and classic works of art.By the way, Joe, that was a very well-spoken response. I couldn't have said it better myself.Anthony - who would really love to one day see a King film with a Williams score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 But even if he's a master at the written word, that doesn't mean we can trust in his taste of musicm or other arts. Horner Charging Fort Wagner from Glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 (Not to mention filmmaking.) Horner Charginf Fort Wagner from Glory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I do have to agree with Joe, coming from Maine, King is definitely an icon here. He does write some fantastic stuff, his earlier stuff much better than his contemporary. He will be remember as a great writer, and I stick to my opinion that, I don't think he knows a ton about film scoring or film at all, I mean come on - he's an author. Remember I said I didn't think he knew a TON about them. So don't rely heavily on what he says as being completely well educated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many 0 Posted March 31, 2003 Author Share Posted March 31, 2003 his earlier stuff much better than his contemporary. LOL Don't people say the say thing about Williams's music?Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeejaHalycon 0 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 It could be he was just trying to make Walden feel better. (Not that he would need it, seeing as he is a fine composer in his own right.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Many: Incorrectly, yes.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanticStrings 10 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Frankly, it is such a subjective thing that there is no right or wrong. That said, anyone bashing Williams is plain wrong. But I don't know if King was bashing Williams or not. Maybe he was trying to explain to the mass public, who know nothing about real music, his ideas. Maybe he knew that the mass public thought that Williams only did big epic music, not reflective, evocative music as well.~Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CYPHER 1 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 I'm also a fan of King's work and to be honest I don't think we can take his comments in the liner notes as disrespectful to Williams. It obviously betrays an ignorance of the complexity and versatility of Williams' output or else simply indicates that King is assuming as his own the popular if erroneous understanding of Williams' music as loud and bombastic. This is not to say that King necessarily shares this view - he could just be giving it expression, because as we all know this guy likes to write A LOT. As a film-maker and someone who has been involved in the production of numerous films, I think King is probably reasonably learned when it comes to what a particualr film needs from its score, and truthfully, not every film will benefit from a John Williams score. I should make the qualification that most of the films King has been involved in are not to most people's tastes (including my own). CYPHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 That wasn't really a bash. He was just saying JW typically writes more epic style music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Neverthelees, I have to say one thing about your comemt, Joe... I really don't think that King will remembered above Poe or Dickens... Sorry my friend this will indeed happen. Remember I said King will be remembered as the greatest HORROR writer of all time. He is not the poet that Poe is, but he is everybit the novelist that both Poe and Dickens are, and he is so far beyond Lovecraft. Dickens and Poe are great horror writers, but King outshines either of them. He is a great local color writer, something he is truely superior at. He is a master of the short story. One only needs to read Mrs. Todds Shortcut, to see the awesome talent this man possesses. Labeled as a horror writer, people are shocked and surprised that he was the author of stories that became Stand By Me(a novella called the Body), Shawshank Redemption(a novella titled Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption, and the Green Mile(a six part chapter book).Many of the films based on his books and short stories have been subpar, however many have been exceptional. Kathy Bates won the first Best Actress Oscar from a horror film(Misery) based on his works.As a contemporary writer, he has no equal. He has sold more books than only one person and God has had a 2000 year advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Damn Joe you think King is a better horror novelist than Poe or Lovecraft??Gotta take issue with ya there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Sorry my friend this will indeed happen. No need to be sorry.... I just don't agree with you on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 i hear ya Joe. it's nice to know that mainers aren't the only ones who like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Remember Ren, I grew up in Somersworth, NH, on the Maine/NH border, where part of the Dead Zone takes place, and where he spoofs himself in the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Ren, Joe. Please consider getting married. Is there something you DON'T agree on? LOL By the way, Stephen King is a heckuva writer. Will he be remembered a classic author? I'm too young to tell. But even though his good works are literature masterpieces (It, Misery spring to mind), there is a too abundant porcentage of works considered "less interesting". Enough to deprive him of the classic author status. King himself couldn't have said it better, in my opinion: he is to literature what McDonald's is to food. Maybe he was being overly humble but, what do you know. He happened to nail it. As he many times does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 King dissed Williams, King sucks, it's as simple as that.He's the Julia Roberts of horror novelists.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 He's the Julia Roberts of horror novelists. I take that as a good thing.One only has to have read 'Salem's Lot or the Shining, to know this man was writing LITERATURE, and to think it took another 20 years before the critics suddenly noticed the man could write all along.And Stefan he didn't insult Williams at all, he simple pointed out the John's music wasn't approriate. To say what you said, then you would need to do the same to any director who chooses someone other than Williams when needing a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 hear hear Joe,you always beat me to it.and Ross, I did notice that about Joe, but I attributed it to having his head screwed on straight! lolI definitely agree, Williams would not have been a match for the "stand" or some other movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 So, what do you all think. Is there a true dislike for Williams's music here, or is King merely making the same general assumption that so many others do: that John only writes big brassy stuff like Star Wars, Superman and Indiana Jones.Hmm? He seems to be using Williams as an example of what's ok That's not a bash. And he never actually said that Williams only writes epic scores.... He merely said Williams epic scores are only ok. It is a bastardized version, that is so devoid of anything that makes it such a great novel.So quite likely when I get to reading the novel I'll find it devoid of what makes the movie great. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 King dissed Williams, King sucks, it's as simple as that.He's the Julia Roberts of horror novelists.Stefancos- Ouch! They don't go much more below the belt than that! If King were reading this he would probably cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many 0 Posted April 1, 2003 Author Share Posted April 1, 2003 There is such a huge difference between saying "he sucks" and "I don't like his work". The way I look at things is King, Williams, Lucas, Zimmer, Tolkien (and any number of other artists, even Julia Roberts) don't suck. If they were bad at what they did, they wouldn't be working in their respective fields. If King couldn't write, he wouldn't be publishing. If Horner couldn't compose, directors wouldn't hire him to score their movies.Let's take Tolkien as a personal example. I have yet to get more than thirty or forty pages into the Lord of the Rings. That's partly because as an English Major, I have too much school reading and writing to have much time for recreational reading, but it also is partly because I find Tolkien to be a very dense and difficult read. Does that mean I can go off and declare "Tolkien Sucks!"? No. He is simply an artist who is good at what he does, but works outside of my particular tastes. Will I ever finish reading LOTR? Most certainly. Will I enjoy it? I hope so. Will it become something I'll read over and over again, like The Stand or Harry Potter? Probably not, but I won't know until I've finished it.To declare that an artist "sucks" probably has more to do with personal jealousy of genuine talent that anything else.Anthony - amazed at the discussion and debate his topic has started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Sorry but Julia Roberts is worthless IMO.Success is NOT always a sign of talent or creativity. Case in point: Friend and Survivors being a #1 show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 She's quite talented, can't stand her real personality. Like her in movies.You are correct, but your case in point is weak, try Britney Spears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 whoa, stray topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Barnsbury 8 Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Great points, Many. Success is NOT always a sign of talent or creativity. Case in point: Friend and Survivors being a #1 show.Those are two of my favorite shows. But, to paraphrase Many, to each his own.Ray Barnsbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 King dissed Williams, King sucks, it's as simple as that.He's the Julia Roberts of horror novelists.Stefancos- I never thought myself saying this, but I agree with our fellow member. Goldsmith The Blue Max Suite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Funny....I just read his phenomenal book On Writing for the third time. (If any of you are serious King fans, or have any aspirations toward writing, this book is a must for you.) I did the audio version this time, read by The Man himself. It's wierd, but after listening to him personally relate his life story and advice on writing, it feels likeI know something of him I didn't before. And I sense--very strongly, though possibly inaccurately--that he would be the first to admit he isn't familiar with most of Williams's work, and would take it in stride if the Maestro's fans took some exception to his statement. I think he was just grabbing for a general example to make his point, not releasing years of pent-up frustration against our favorite composer. There's no real reason to take offense.I've honestly never been a huge fan of King's work. For one thing--and Morn's gonna think this is a scream--I think he often wastes words. I love his command of the language, and his ability to create realistic setting and plausible characters; but to have to spend four pages reading about someone's third nephew twice removed and his chronic hypochondria, when the guy has nothing to do with the story, gets tiresome after a while. The Green Mile was excellent, but I attribute that in large part to it being serialized. For the same reason, I think his short fiction is his best stuff. (I just watched Hearts in Atlantis the other day for the first time; talk about a film that captures King's mood-setting and period familiarity. Good movie, too.) The best thing about him, though, is his perspective about storytelling. I don't even really call him a "horror" author any more; the macabre is simply a tool he uses as the conflict that reveals the characters, who are the true center of the story.And yes, he's miles ahead of Lovecraft, who was one of the worst dialogue writers of all time. Poe is questionable; his work was so atmospheric, and he kept his dialogue to a minimum, sensing that he was on thin ice in that respect as well. But it's really a matter of apples and oranges, since King is contemporary, and no one who writes like Lovecraft or Poe would have a prayer of getting published in today's market. - Uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Doggone it! Sorry, folks....that was me. - Uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 Cool!I thought I was the only one who said "Dog gone it" Williams Theme for NBC NewsThe Boston Pops OrchestraJohn Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 excellent as always uni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 I don't think that King was trashing Williams at all. I think that he was describing the specific reasons for the decision to hire W.G. "Snuffy" Walden. Having seen the mini-series, I think that Walden did a fantastic job, and the idea of doing something much more intimate and bluegrassy worked well with the story (although I envisioned the book very differently when I read it).His logic in terms of what he wanted from the score makes sense. One of the elements of King's writing that informs his best work is a sense of Americana. More than any other writer, he taps into that aesthetic, and it is one of the reasons for his popular success. The best films that have been made from his writings, Carrie, Stand By Me and The Shawshank Redemption (and, in my opinion, although it is extremely unpopular, Hearts In Atlantis) all share this element. In each case, the filmmaker in question realized this and the music scores reflect this.King's remarks, however, do show how the public views Williams' work. While those of us who are enthusiasts will also praise his earlier scores such as Sugarland Express, The Rievers and Conrack, all of which bear many stylistic similarities to what Walden did for The Stand, most people hear John Williams and think Star Wars, Superman and the Indiana Jones movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 0 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 That was me, by the way. I forgot to log in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Ren, Joe. Please consider getting married.Oh, the irony of impossible love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 loljoe is married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin 2 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Justin -Wondering about the prank Joe must have pulled on their wedding day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 He's the Julia Roberts of horror novelists.No....if that were the case, the quote would've read: "Epic music is sometimes okay -- that big old sixteen thousand-track Star Wars Stick Man thang -- but sometimes it's not okay...."Just an observation.- Uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uni 306 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 It happened again. I don't understand why that other computer can't keep track of me, even though I use it every other day.Sorry again.- Uni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Justin -Wondering about the prank Joe must have pulled on their wedding day. Justin, two lessons in life for you.1. It was HER wedding day, I was a willing participant, I am still alive so there was no prank.2. If you want to get some, pulling a prank will insure that you wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Justin -Wondering about the prank Joe must have pulled on their wedding day. Justin, two lessons in life for you.1. It was HER wedding day, I was a willing participant, I am still alive so there was no prank.2. If you want to get some, pulling a prank will insure that you wont. Isn't that the true!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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