Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2023 I thought I would start a thread to comment the scores for this saga, since I think they are absolutely amazing, and a showcase of Göransson's talents as a composer, proving his ability to provide music that fits into the picture, but also respects the legacy of Bill Conti's scores for the Rocky saga. The first two scores were done by Ludwig Göransson, and on the third one he passed the mantle on to his disciple, Joseph Shirley (similar to what has happened in The Mandalorian Season 3). All three soundtracks also feature some songs co-composed or produced by the composer, that sometimes play an important part into the narrative of the movies, and that are also worth checking out. And what a better way to start this thread than doing a thematic breakdown of all the main themes of the first Creed movie. It's a wonderful score, full of orchestral passages that perfectly blend with the more hip-hop oriented rhythms used to represent the modern tone and the setting of the movie. Similar to what happened in The Mandalorian, there are a couple of sonic and rhythmic devices used to denote different parts of the main characters of the story, and sometimes they are a bit hard to tell apart, but in addition to this there are at least 5 fully developed melodic ideas that seem to represent different aspects of the story, sometimes overlapping or battling with each other, as well as some clever interpolations of several of Conti's themes from the Rocky movies. Let's get right into it! Adonis Creed It's the new main theme of the saga, and it's developed, transformed and disfigured a lot through these scores, ranging from soft, romantic variations to full-blown epic fanfares. It's quite catchy and memorable, being almost in every cue of the first movie, and it's great to hear how Göransson hints at the main Rocky theme in the underlying harmonies, until he overlaps them in the final cues. Sometimes it plays in full, but others it's just hinted at, with the first 5 notes playing briefly over a different theme, so I will try to note just the most prominent statements. 01 Juvy - 1:49 02 Adonis - 0:11, 1:50, 2:18 06 First Date - 0:19, 1:50 07 Moving In with Rocky - 0:18, 0:29, 0:50 09 Front Street Gym - 0:56, 2:18, 2:52, 3:10 10 The Sporino Fight - 2:41, 3:57, 4:29 12 I Got You - 0:25 13 Rocky is Sick - 1:26 14 Caught in the Shadow - 0:36, 0:55 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) - 0:22, 2:24, 2:41, 3:35, 4:23, 4:47 16 Boxing Shorts - 0:00, 0:32, 0:58, 1:22 17 Conlan Fight - 0:00, 1:23, 3:32, 4:42, 6:05 18 You're a Creed - 0:56, 1:58, 2:20, 3:06 19 You Can See the Whole Town From Here - 1:20, 1:41 20 End Credits - 0:08, 0:55, 2:00 21 Creed Suite - 0:00, 1:53, 2:09 Fighting Fanfare This idea serves as a motivational training fanfare, but it's so cool to see how Göransson hints it early in piano in tracks like "Adonis" or "Rocky is Sick", before he presents the fully orchestral version in the Training Montage, which is then used as a sort of heroic fanfare during the boxing fights. 02 Adonis - 1:02 13 Rocky is Sick - 0:40, 1:52 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) - 1:13, 1:39, 3:54 17 Conlan Fight - 0:46, 2:34, 3:55 18 You're a Creed - 3:41 19 You Can See the Whole Town From Here - 1:20, 1:41 20 End Credits - 1:16, 2:04 21 Creed Suite - 0:41 Creed's Legacy For me, this is one of the most emotional themes of the movie, as it directly relates to Adonis' relationship with his deceased father Apollo, and how he slowly accepts and embraces his father's legacy. It's also used to represent his relationship with Apollo's wife, Mary Anne, who acts as his de-facto mother, since the real one died when he was too young. It's such a beautiful theme, and the composer makes the clever decision to usually finish it with a reference to the main Creed theme, thus making both linked and emotionally connected. 02 Adonis - 1:33 12 I Got You - 0:00 15 If I Fight, You FIght (Training Montage) - 0:57 16 Boxing Shorts - 0:44, 1:03 17 Conlan Fight - 2:07, 5:48 20 End Credits - 0:38 Boxing Theme This idea is a bit hard to associate with a specific character, and since it plays in many scenes during a boxing fight, I think it's intended as a sort of "action theme" that the composer can recur to during one of these fights. It's usually played as counterpoint of other themes, but there are a couple of noteworthy standalone statements worth noting. 02 Adonis - 2:00 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) - 1:28, 4:06 17 Conlan Fight - 2:50 18 You're a Creed - 4:00 20 End Credits - 1:34 Conlan (Redemption) This idea is even less prominent, playing only a couple of times, with an undulating motif associated with it, but I think it's meant to be a theme that illustrates both Conlan's character and the concept of "Redemption". The track "Conlan (Redepmtion)" serves as a great summary of the idea, which also briefly appears in a cue released in the composer's cut version of the score in "Liverpool". 04 Conlan (Redemption) - 0:00 (theme), 0:00 (motif), 0:49 (theme), 1:00 (motif), 1:14 (motif) 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) - 2:11 (motif), 2:29 (theme), 2:59 (motif), 3:16 (theme), 3:16 (motif) 17 Conlan Fight - 5:26 (theme) Adonis & Bianca For the relationship between these two characters, the composer devises a set of guitar motifs and sounds that are hinted in the first movie, but that will become much more important in the sequels. 06 First Date - 0:00 Distress There's a motif that plays a couple of times, sometimes alongside Creed's main theme, that seems to represent the character in distress during a training or fight. It's almost as a sort of secondary phrase to his main theme, since it usually leads into the Creed theme 09 Front Street Gym - 2:35 10 The Sporino Fight - 3:49 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) - 2:15 20 End Credits - 0:25, 1:51 Adonis & Rocky This is a brief, noble motif that appears in one cue of the first movie, and that was used again in the second one, when Rocky accompanies Rocky to visit his newly-born daughter, but this cue is sadly unreleased. 03 Meeting Rocky - 2:07, 2:34, 3:00 Boxing rhythm For the boxing and training sequences, the composer devises a set of percussion rhythms that he uses to heighten the tension, and are used as an underlying beat for the other themes to fight and develop. 02 Adonis 09 Front Street Gym 10 The Sporino Fight 15 If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) 17 Conlan Fight 20 End Credits Bill Conti's Themes Almost all of the main themes that Conti composed for the Rocky movies return here in one way or another, being the most notable one Rocky's main theme, used here as a leitmotif for the character. Also returning are the Rocky Fanfare, the Struggle and Victory themes from "Going the Distance" and "The Final Bell", and a hint of Rocky & Adrian's love theme, which is reprised in full in the sequel. 06 First Date - 0:50 (Rocky & Adrian), 2:14 (Rocky) 13 Rocky is Sick - 0:56 (Rocky) 18 You're A Creed - 0:00 (Rocky Fanfare), 0:17 (Struggle), 1:35 (Victory), 1:59 (Rocky), 2:43 (Rocky) 19 You Can See The Whole Town From Here - 0:00 (Rocky) And this is it for the first movie! I'm planning on watching the third one soon, so I will probably also post my analysis of the scores for the second and third entries. And here below I leave this same breakdown but track by track, if that makes it any more clear. If you want to listen to a sample of what this score can offer, I definitely recommend listening to the End Credits track, which is a great summary of a couple of the main ideas of the score. It opens with one of the boxing rhythms, joined by the Creed theme, the Distress theme joining at 0:25. It leads to a beautiful vocal arrangement of the Legacy theme at 0:38, followed again by the Creed theme. The Fighting Fanfare burst forth at 1:15, joined at 1:34 by the Boxing theme as a counterpoint, leading to a tenses statement of the Distress theme, which closes out with the first notes of the Creed theme, playing alongside the Fighting Fanfare, before the cue slowly fades out. Track by Track Breakdown Spoiler Juvy 1:49 Creed Adonis 0:11 Creed 1:03 Fighting 1:22 Fighting + Creed 1:33 Legacy 1:51 Creed 2:00 Boxing 2:18 Creed Meeting Rocky 2:07 Adonis & Rocky 2:34 Adonis & Rocky 3:00 Adonis & Rocky Conlan (Redemption) 0:00 Redemption + Redemption motif 0:14 Redemption motif 0:49 Redemption 1:00 Redemption motif 1:14 Redemption motif First Date 0:00 Adonis & Bianca 0:19 Creed + Adonis & Bianca 0:50 Rocky & Adrian (Conti) 1:50 Creed 2:14 Rocky (Conti) Moving in With Rocky 0:18 Creed 0:29 Creed 0:50 Creed Front Street Gym 0:56 Creed 2:18 Creed 2:35 Creed + Creed B 2:52 Creed 3:10 Creed The Sporino Fight 2:41 Creed 3:49 Creed B 3:57 Creed 4:30 Creed I Got You 0:00 Legacy 0:25 Creed Rocky Is Sick 0:40 Fighting 0:56 Rocky (Conti) 1:26 Creed 1:52 Fighting Caught in The Shadow 0:36 Creed 0:55 Creed If I Fight, You Fight (Training Montage) 0:22 Creed 0:57 Legacy 1:13 Fighting 1:28 Boxing 1:39 Fighting 2:11 Redemption 2:15 Creed B + Redemption motif 2:24 Creed + Redemption motif 2:29 Redemption 2:41 Creed 2:59 Redemption motif 3:16 Redemption + Redemption motif 3:35 Creed 3:54 Fighting 4:06 Fighting + Boxing 4:23 Creed 4:47 Creed Boxing Shorts 0:00 Creed 0:32 Creed 0:44 Legacy 0:58 Creed 1:03 Legacy 1:22 Creed Conlan Fight 0:00 Creed 0:46 Fighting 1:23 Creed 2:07 Legacy 2:23 Creed 2:34 Fighting 2:50 Boxing 3:01 Creed 3:32 Creed 3:55 Fighting 4:07 Creed 4:42 Creed 5:25 Redemption 5:48 Legacy 6:05 Creed You're A Creed 0:00 Rocky Fanfare (Conti) 0:17 Struggle (Conti) 0:57 Creed 1:35 Victory (Conti) 1:59 Creed + Rocky (Conti) 2:21 Creed 2:43 Rocky (Conti) 3:07 Creed 3:41 Fighting 4:00 Fighting + Boxing You Can See the Whole Town from Here 0:00 Rocky (Conti) 1:20 Creed 1:41 Creed End Credits – Creed 0:08 Creed 0:25 Creed + Creed B 0:38 Legacy 0:55 Creed 1:16 Fighting 1:34 Fighting + Boxing 1:51 Creed B 2:00 Creed 2:04 Fighting + Creed Creed Suite 0:00 Creed 0:41 Fighting 1:53 Creed 2:09 Creed You can also check out my analysis of the scores for Creed II and Creed III, a few posts down below Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Jay, Ricard and 6 others 3 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,374 Posted March 3, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2023 I love JWFan Yavar Moradi, Cerebral Cortex, Knight of Ren and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 3, 2023 I just love doing this kind of breakdown/analysis and it's great to have a place to share them. Enjoy! Cerebral Cortex, Edmilson, Jay and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Big fan of the scores, they're a womderful update of the Bill Conti sound into modern age and the main themes offer some of the best thematic material in modern age. Only heard the third score once so far and while the album feels bit long it does pay off greatly in the third act. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 What’s your guys’ opinion on the Creed III score by Shirley? I lowkey thought he took away too many of the elements that made the Creed scores work so well but I still think it was a fine effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,521 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Not a fan of the CREED movies (nor their scores), but obviously adore the ol' ROCKY movies that I grew up with. There's obviously a generation gap thing going on here. In either case, I'm impressed by your passion, Knight of Ren. Keep it up! Knight of Ren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, MaxMovieMan said: What’s your guys’ opinion on the Creed III score by Shirley? I lowkey thought he took away too many of the elements that made the Creed scores work so well but I still think it was a fine effort. I just came out of the theatre from watching the third movie. I hadn't listened to the score prior to this, so I felt the change in mood, and the absence of many thematic connections felt a bit disappointing until the end, where the composer brings some of the themes back. Minor spoiler but I think it works great that the main theme is absent for most part of the film since Creed is retired from boxing, and isn't brought back until he decides to fight back. Also, Rocky's themes except for a token appearance in the final fight are dropped beacuse of the lack of Stallone's character in the movie. But Shirley's new material is great and I will listen to the score as soon as I can to try to do a breakdown of the themes, as well as posting my analysis on Creed II. I will leave here the track that plays over the end credits, and which serves as a great summary of Shirley's new material, in a sort of hip-hop arrangement. MaxMovieMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 4, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 4, 2023 Now it's time to analyze the score to the sequel, Creed II. It expands on what was heard on the first one, greatly developing some secndary ideas and motifs (like Adonis & Bianca or Adonis & Rocky, its variations sadly unreleased), while presenting some new effective themes to represent the most important plot points of the movie. The Creed theme is less prominent, and some of the secondary ideas are used a lot less, like Boxing or Legacy, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing, since the new themes are quite strong on their own. Also worth mentioning is the more prominent role of the songs in the score. In the previous movie, the montage sequence was overlapped with some hip-hop vocals during its second half (released in the soundtrack album as Lord Knows), and a similar thing happens here, with Ice Cold and Runnin' being released directly on the score album. I'm not usually a fan of these kind of songs, but since they are so intrinsically connected to Göransson's themes, I feel they play an essential part in understanding the score as a whole. Let's start first with all the returning themes from the previous entry: Adonis Creed The main theme is less prominent in the sequel, but still plays a big role in representing the character and his struggles, and it’s especially nice to hear in its softer variations, relating to Adonis and his family. 02 Wheeler Fight – 2:11 06 You Think I’m Going to Lose – 2:19 07 Balanced Breakfast – 0:16 08 Ice Cold (feat. Vince Staples) – 1:02 09 Under Water – 1:23 10 Adonis and Amara – 0:15 12 Runnin’ (feat. A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) – 3:12, 4:33 15 Fight in Moscow – 1:42, 4:17, 4:31, 4:53, 5:42 16 It’s Your Time – 3:09, 3:32, 3:54 17 Family Visit – 0:00, 1:38, 2:55 Fighting Fanfare The fanfare plays a similar role here, serving as a heroic proclamation of Adonis presence, usually playing in bold brass or choral statements that play over the boxing fights. 02 Wheeler Fight – 0:34 08 Ice Cold (feat. Vince Staples) – 1:27 12 Runnin’ (feat. A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) – 1:03, 2:08, 4:14 15 Fight in Moscow – 2:29 17 Family Visit – 1:17 Creed's Legacy The theme retains the same purpose, but is much less frequent, since Creed’s acceptance of his legacy was the main motivation of the first movie, not this one. The theme gets referenced when his father is mentioned, or to reinforce his relationship with Mary Anne. 07 Balanced Breakfast – 0:36 15 Fight in Moscow – 3:44 16 It’s Your Time – 4:11 Boxing Theme The theme used to represent the boxing fights in the first movie makes a cameo appearance during the final fight, but it’s absent for the rest of the film. 15 Fight in Moscow – 5:00 Distress Similarly, this idea plays only in the first fight, and then disappears for the rest of the score. 02 Wheeler Fight – 1:18, 1:38 Adonis & Bianca On the opposite side, the motif that only played once to represent Adonis & Bianca in the first movie gets greatly expanded in this movie, appearing in a handful of tracks, plus some great unreleased variations. It’s one of my favorite softer ideas, and I think it serves as a nice, lovely counterpoint to the more aggressive music that surrounds the fights and the training montages. 03 Yo? Is That a Yes? – 0:06 09 Under Water – 0:17 10 Adonis and Amara – 0:04 17 Family Visit – 2:34 Boxing rhythms For all the boxing fights, similar to what happened in the first movie, there are a set of rhythms and sound motifs that support the tension and the action. 02 Wheeler Fight 15 Fight in Moscow Bill Conti's Themes Obviously, Bill Conti’s themes also play an important role in the movie, being especially prominent during the final fight. Rocky & Adrian’s love theme is reprised in full as heard in “First Date” from the Rocky movie, but that’s not released. Apart from that, Göransson brings back the Rocky Fanfare, Rocky’s theme, and the Struggle and Victory themes. It’s especially great to hear some nice overlapping of both Creed’s theme and Rocky’s theme during It’s Your Time, serving both as a shared celebration and an emotional sendoff to Stallone’s character. 04 The Public Challenge – 3:21 (Rocky) 16 It’s Your Time – 0:00 (Rocky Fanfare), 0:20 (Rocky), 0:31 (Struggle), 2:44 (Victory), 3:09 (Rocky), 4:36 (Rocky) 17 Family Visit – 1:58 (Rocky) This is it for the returning themes, but we still have to mention the new themes and motifs that come into play in the score, starting with: Drago Probably, the most prominent new idea is the theme for the Drago family. It’s a noble theme, with hints of a russian folk melody, that goes from soft guitar arrangements to epic, choral statements. Also worth mentioning is the Drago’s Walk Out track, which intermingles their identity with a brand-new choral motif for this moment, which makes it really stand out. Also interesting is how the composer intermingles this idea with another new motif during the final fight, the Honor theme, which I will comment in a bit. This connection really gives a lot of emotional depth to the characters, and for me, it’s one of the standout moments of the movie! 01 Drago – 0:39, 1:50, 3:14 04 The Public Challenge – 1:58, 2:27 07 Balanced Breakfast – 0:13 12 Runnin’ (feat. A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) – 1:35 13 Drago’s Walk Out – 0:16, 0:58, 1:36 15 Fight in Moscow – 1:48 16 It’s Your Time – 0:54, 1:39, 2:03 Honor Similarly to other ideas in the first movie, such as Redemption or Legacy, the composer devises a brand new idea, and an associated motif, to represent Adonis’ fight for his honor, but that also extends to the Drago family, and applies to them during the final fight, when Ivan Drago decides to stop the fight when he sees his son is being defeated. This is such a clever way of interconnecting both characters and giving them a shared past, and showing they’re fighting for the same, which is nothing more than defending and preserving their honor. It also serves as a basis for the Ice Cold song, which plays under one of the training montages. 02 Wheeler Fight – 0:11 (motif), 1:27 (theme), 1:27 (motif), 1:50 (theme), 1:50 (motif) 08 Ice Cold (feat. Vince Staples) – 0:00 (motif), 0:15 (theme), 0:15 (motif), 0:39 (theme) 0:39 (motif), 1:27 (motif) 15 Fight in Moscow – 1:06 (theme), 1:26 (theme), 2:57 (theme) 16 It’s Your Time – 2:03 (theme) Runnin’ The big training montage of the movie is the Runnin’ sequence, featuring singers A$AP Rocky and Jacob Banks. This song features a rhythmic ostinato that then becomes of great importance during the final fight. 11 You Might Find Me (feat. Jacob Banks) – 0:47 (You Might Find Me) 12 Runnin’ (feat A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) – 0:00, 0:24, 1:28, 3:44, 3:58 15 Fight in Moscow – 0:26, 2:17, 2:48, 5:56 You Might Find Me The middle section of that training montage contains a soulful melodic passage sung by Jacob Banks which is derived from the fuller song, You Might Find Me, which plays right before the training montage in the movie. 11 You Might Find Me (feat. Jacob Banks) – 0:47 12 Runnin’ (feat A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) – 2:38 And that's it! The second score greatly expands on the previously established themes, while presenting some new ones that are immediately memorable, like Drago's theme. Also, I really like the bigger presence of the songs, and the Runnin' montage is such a great example on how to do these kind of pieces: Right away, we are introduced to the Runnin' motif, which greatly develops through the first 2 minutes, intermingling with other themes, like the Fighting Fanfare at 1:03 or the Drago theme at 1:35. We get a lovely emotional interlude with Jacob Banks singing You Might Find Me, which slowly builds into a glorious statement of the Creed theme. From here on, the Runnin' motif is joined by the main hip-hop song, which builds and builds until a bold, choral statement of the Fighting Fanfare at 4:14, which then finishes off with a celebratory statement of the Creed theme. The last seconds, with the orchestral hits, and the choir singing "Fight!" are just pure, unadultered motiovational energy! I'll leave here the track by track breakdown, and I will soon get to do the analysis of the third score, which is more complex and interesting than it could appear on first listen! Track by Track Breakdown Spoiler Drago 0:39 Drago 1:50 Drago 3:14 Drago Wheeler Fight 0:11 Honor motif 0:34 Fighting + Honor motif 1:18 Creed B 1:27 Honor + Honor motif 1:38 Honor + Creed B + Honor motif 1:50 Honor + Honor motif 2:11 Creed Yo? Is That a Yes? 0:06 Adonis & Bianca The Public Challenge 1:58 Drago 2:27 Drago 3:21 Rocky (Conti) You Think I'm Going to Lose 2:19 Creed Balanced Breakfast 0:13 Drago 0:36 Creed + Legacy Ice Cold (feat. Vince Staples) 0:00 Honor motif 0:15 Honor + Honor motif 0:39 Honor + Honor motif 1:02 Creed 1:27 Fighting + Honor motif Under Water 0:17 Adonis & Bianca 1:23 Creed Adonis and Amara 0:04 Adonis & Bianca 0:15 Creed + Adonis & Bianca You Might Find Me (feat. Jacob Banks) 0:47 You Might Find Me Runnin’ (feat A$AP Rocky, Jacob Banks) 0:00 Runnin motif 0:24 Runnin motif 1:03 Fighting 1:28 Runnin motif 1:35 Drago + Runnin motif 2:08 Fighting 2:38 You Might Find Me 3:12 Creed 3:44 Runnin motif 3:58 Runnin motif 4:14 Fighting 4:33 Creed Drago's Walk Out 0:16 Drago 0:58 Drago 1:36 Drago Fight In Moscow 0:26 Runnin motif 1:06 Honor 1:26 Honor 1:42 Creed 1:48 Drago 2:17 Runnin motif 2:29 Fighting 2:48 Runnin motif 2:57 Honor 3:44 Legacy 4:17 Creed 4:31 Creed 4:53 Creed 5:00 Boxing 5:42 Creed 5:56 Runnin motif It's Your Time 0:00 Rocky Fanfare (Conti) 0:20 Rocky (Conti) 0:31 Struggle (Conti) 0:54 Drago 1:39 Drago 2:03 Honor + Drago 2:44 Victory (Conti) 3:09 Creed + Rocky (Conti) 3:32 Creed 3:54 Creed 4:11 Legacy 4:36 Rocky (Conti) Family Visit 0:00 Adonis & Bianca + Creed 1:17 Fighting 1:38 Fighting + Creed 1:58 Rocky (Conti) 2:34 Adonis & Bianca 2:55 Creed + Adonis & Bianca Enjoy! Raiders of the SoundtrArk, Ricard, MaxMovieMan and 4 others 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,969 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Just watched the third film. It's very strong. My favorite film of the year up to this point. After seeing the film, the score that Shirley composed fits the film very well. Because the film is quite different from the previous 2, the score follows suit. The score in film is very strong (it helps that it's spotted very well) and I believe most, if not all of the score, is on album. Shirley is still in the sonic world of Göransson's score but he does his own thing with it, which I really appreciated. I really loved the moment when both tge Creed theme by Göransson and Conti's theme appeared at the end. Because they were mostly absent from the film their impact hit even more. crocodile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 5, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 5, 2023 And finally, I'm back with the analysis to the third score, this time done by Göransson's disciple, Joseph Shirley. In a way, it parallels the movie, since now Creed doesn't have Rocky on his side and has to face the problems on his own, just like Shirley as gone from being an assistant to being the main composer. The score is quite different from the previous two scores, and the way the composer handles the franchise themes reminded me of Göransson's Wakanda Forever, holding on the use of the previously established themes until the narrative of the movie allows for them. It's fitting since it's quite a dark and different story, and while sometimes makes the score a tad less interesting, at least of a first glance, it allows Shirley's own new material to be developed properly, making for a really interesting score on a conceptual level. And when he finally brings back the franchise theme and allows the score to go from subdued to full choral burts of inmense power, like during the training sequence or the final fight in the void, the score truly shines, especially benefitting from being mixed quite well in the movie, making it stand out to great effect. So, let's get right into the analysis, starting with the themes that do come back. They are a few, and some ideas are sadly dropped, like the Legacy theme or Adonis and Bianca's motif, but they are either not necessary in the movie (the Legacy theme doesn't really fit anymore in the narrative), or are replaced by a brand new idea, like the Adonis and Bianca motif, which is replaced by a new one, which retains the instrumentations and overall vibe, but with a new melody. So, these are the themes that do return: Adonis Creed The main theme for the saga is almost absent for the most part of the film. At first, this might seem a bit disappointing, but after watching the movie, it makes a lot of sense conceptually, even if it makes for a slightly weaker listening experience because of this absence. Adonis is retired from boxing for most part of the movie, and it isn’t until the third act, where he decided to fight Dame himself that he has to return to the ring, and it’s in that moment that the composer brings back the theme, which he then develops through the rest of the movie. 15 Stop Running – 1:52 16 Training Montage – 4:51, 5:12, 6:38 17 The Void – 5:07 18 Round 12 – 1:33, 2:57, 3:21 19 The Champ – 2:29, 3:33 Drago The theme for the Drago family makes a cameo appearance during the Training Montage, when Adonis starts training with Viktor Drago. It’s brief, but it’s there and it was quite a pleasant surprise to find out they were able to find even a small spot for such a great theme! 15 Training Montage – 2:26 Boxing rhythms For the boxing fights, like in the previous movies, the composer creates a set of rhythms and sound motifs that support the tension and the action. 02 Checkmate 03 Diamond Dame 12 Dame v. Felix 16 The Void 17 Round 12 Bill Conti's Themes Since Rocky is absent from the movie, it wouldn’t make a lot of sense to have any of his themes appear in this movie, Shirley only quoting the Victory theme at the end of the final fight. 17 Round 12 – 1:58 (Victory) And now, let's talk about the new themes. One thing I have to mention is that, for obvious reasons, this is the score I'm less familiar with, and some thematic connections might be not entirely accurate, so feel free to correct me. It doesn't help that the composer tends to overlap some of these ideas to make emotional connections between the concepts and chaarcters, making it a bit difficult to tell them apart. For example, a secondary phrase of what I call the Champion theme shares many similarities to the new theme for Amara, that serves as a Family theme, and sometimes the ideas bleed into each other with no apparent distinction. Also of importance is the presence of some vocal collaborations, like it already happened in the previous movies. Particulary in the Training Montage and The Void sequences, Shirley joins forces with another artists that add their voice to enhance the emotions of that particular sequence. Anyway, here are the new themes: Champion (Run It) This seems to be the new main theme for the film, and serves as a theme to guide Adonis' journey to defend the title of champion, while facing his past. It's used to represent the character at his most victorious, but also at his lowest, ranging from fully orchestral statements to subdued piano and synths arrangements. It's also interesting how the composer allows the theme to play under some of Damian's scenes, when he takes the title of champion from Felix, thus making it a theme not only tied to Adonis, but also to their fight and struggle over the title of Champion. 01 Run It Suite (Vocal Version) – 0:09, 0:30, 1:28, 1:45, 2:05, 2:13, 2:23, 3:07, 3:26 02 Checkmate – 0:34, 1:20, 1:36 05 Adonis and Damian – 0:56 06 Underdog – 0:03 12 Dame v. Felix – 4:07, 4:36 13 The Letters – 0:58 14 Mary Anne – 3:21 15 Stop Running – 0:38 16 Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) – 0:34, 1:17, 6:07, 6:25 17 The Void (feat. Maiya Sykes) – 1:16, 4:38, 4:59 18 Round 12 – 0:34, 1:35, 1:52, 2:57, 3:39 19 The Champ – 0:16 Amara / Family This idea seems like a replacement for the Adonis and Bianca motif, but it has a bigger purpose, and still partially retains some of the instrumentation to make the connection between the two ideas. It’s a theme that directly ties Donnie with his family, and especially in his relationship with his daughter Amara. During these scenes, the motif is playful and happy, but the composer offers a more dramatic and even heroic variation of the same idea to support Adonis’ journey, sometimes playing alongside the Champion theme. When the composer does that, the secondary phrase of that Champion theme strongly resembles this family theme, and sometimes it's a bit hard to tell them apart, but it makes for quite a satisfying listening experience to hear how the composer connects these ideas, like in the Run It Suite. 01 Run It Suite (Vocal Version) – 1:45, 2:13, 2:23, 2:50 02 Checkmate – 1:58 04 Tea Party – 0:44, 1:02, 2:25 08 Amara – 1:14 15 Stop Running – 1:06 16 Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) – 2:13, 2:42, 5:25 17 The Void (feat. Maiya Sykes) – 2:10 19 The Champ – 1:24, 1:55, 3:02 Rising (Dame and Donnie) At first, I thought this idea was the theme for Dame, and it wasn’t until I checked the score a couple of times that I connected that is a theme that sort of represents the relationship between Dame and Adonis, starting subtle on synths and vocal effects, building to huge choral statements in the training montage and the final fight, which are some of the most effective moments in the whole score. I named it the rising motif because it’s a progression of rising chords, but you could just call it the Dame and Donnie theme, even if it doesn’t always directly relate to their relationship. 01 Run It Suite (Vocal Version) – 2:01, 2:50 02 Checkmate – 1:50 04 Tea Party – 1:24, 2:09 05 Adonis and Damian – 0:31 06 Underdog – 0:03 13 The Letters – 1:17 15 Stop Running – 1:06, 1:19 16 Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) – 3:50 18 Round 12 – 1:20, 4:11 19 The Champ – 0:00, 2:46 Dame Some of the previously mentioned themes are at times related to the character of Jonathan Majors, but he has a particular theme that is directly associated with the darker side of his character, sometimes surrounded by hip-hop beats, that kind of reminded me of Killmonger's theme from Black Panther, like in Damian's Plan. What I like is how it's hinted in the early cues, and then becomes such an oppressive and menacing melody during the boxing fights, really making the character seem quite dangerous. 03 Diamond Dame – 1:32 04 Tea Party – 2:52 06 Underdog – 1:58 07 Damian’s Plan – 0:57, 1:15 10 Showtime Promo – 0:54 12 Dame vs. Felix – 1:12, 2:47 13 The Letters – 1:52, 2:43, 3:09 16 Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) – 1:49 17 The Void (feat. Maiya Sykes) – 0:44, 1:39 18 Round 12 – 1:35 Felix Chavez The first official opponent of Dame in his quest to achieve the champion title is Felix Chavez, a mexican fighter who holds the title at the start of the movie. He’s represented by a repeating motif, that is accompanied by a sort of fanfare-like theme during two different sequences, in both the Showtime Promo and during his fight with Dame. Also worth mentioning is his Walk Out song, Viene por Sangre, which incorporates his motif into a vibrant mariachi-like arrangement of a hip-hop song, which represents both his roots and his imponent presence. 09 A New Contender – 0:13 (motif), 0:44 (motif), 1:00 (motif) 10 Showtime Promo – 0:00 (motif), 0:25 (motif), 0:40 (theme), 1:39 (theme), 1:39 (motif), 2:10 (motif) 11 Viene por Sangre – Felix Walkout (feat. JVZEL) – 0:01 (motif), 0:30 (motif), 0:57 (motif) 12 Dame vs. Felix – 1:36 (motif), 1:39 (theme), 3:32 (motif) And this is it! This was quite a task, but so much fun, and I hope you enjoyed reading. This third score feels quite different to the other two, but Joseph Shirley managed to bring a few of his own ideas that work great within the narrative. They are mostly summarized in the Run It Suite track, which greatly develops the Champion theme with hints of the Family theme and the Rising motif, but I also wanted to mention a track that particularly stood out to me while watching the movie, and that is the Round 12 track that plays during the final fight between Adonis and Dame. It starts with a percussive rhythm joined by some vocal effects, until the Champion theme briefly enters at 0:34. The dark ambiences continue for a minute or so, until the silence is disrupted by a bold, choral statement of the Rising motif, which leads to a brief statement of the Creed theme. The percussive rhythms from the opening of the cue are back, joined by the Dame theme on horns and the Champion theme on strings. Both fight each other, until the Champion theme takes over at 1:52. Some victorious chords soon lead to a celebratory statement of Conti's Victory theme, joined by some more references to the Creed theme, with the champion theme playing as counterpoint. The music suddenly silences, and a noble statement of the Champion theme enters on horns, leading up to a brief reprisal of the Rising motif chords on strings to close up the cue on a more lowkey tone. I leave a track by track breakdown to be able to follow it as you are listening to the soundtrack: Track by Track Breakdown Spoiler Run It Suite – Vocal Version 0:09 Champion 0:30 Champion 0:51 Champion (variation) 1:10 Champion (variation) 1:28 Champion 1:45 Family + Champion 2:01 Rising 2:05 Champion 2:13 Champion + Family 2:23 Champion + Family 2:50 Family + Rising 3:07 Champion 3:26 Champion 3:36 Champion (variation) Checkmate 0:34 Champion 1:20 Champion 1:36 Champion 1:50 Rising 1:58 Family Diamond Dame 1:32 Dame Tea Party 0:44 Family 1:02 Family 1:24 Rising 2:09 Rising 2:25 Family 2:52 Dame Adonis and Damian 0:31 Rising 0:56 Champion Underdog 0:03 Rising + Champion 1:58 Dame Damian’s Plan 0:57 Dame 1:15 Dame Amara 1:14 Family A New Contender 0:13 Felix motif 0:44 Felix motif 1:00 Felix motif Showtime Promo 0:00 Felix motif 0:25 Felix motif 0:40 Felix 0:54 Dame 1:39 Felix + Felix motif 2:10 Felix motif Viene por Sangre – Felix Walkout (feat. JVZEL) 0:01 Felix motif 0:30 Felix motif 0:57 Felix motif Dame vs. Felix 1:12 Dame 1:36 Felix + Felix motif 2:47 Dame 3:32 Felix motif 4:07 Champion 4:36 Champion The Letters 0:58 Champion 1:17 Rising 1:52 Dame 2:43 Dame 3:09 Dame Mary Anne 3:21 Champion Stop Running 0:38 Champion 1:06 Family + Rising 1:19 Rising 1:52 Creed (Göransson) Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) 0:34 Champion 1:17 Champion 1:49 Dame 2:13 Family 2:26 Drago (Göransson) 2:42 Family 3:50 Rising 4:52 Creed (Göransson) 5:12 Creed (Göransson) 5:25 Family 6:07 Champion 6:25 Champion 6:38 Creed (Göransson) The Void (feat. Maiya Sykes) 0:44 Dame 1:09 Dame 1:16 Champion 2:10 Family 4:38 Champion 4:59 Champion 5:07 Creed (Göransson) Round 12 0:34 Champion 1:20 Rising 1:33 Creed (Göransson) 1:35 Dame + Champion 1:52 Champion 2:25 Victory (Conti) 2:57 Creed (Göransson) + Champion 3:21 Creed (Göransson) 3:39 Champion 4:11 Rising The Champ 0:00 Rising 0:16 Champion 1:24 Family 1:55 Family 2:29 Creed (Göransson) 2:46 Rising 3:02 Family 3:33 Creed (Göransson) These three scores are fantastic, each in their own way, with a vast array of memorable themes developed through the movies, and I really hope they continue doing more of this movies just to have some more brilliant scores to look forward to. What are your favorite themes from this saga? What is your favorite score overall? I hope you enjoyed reading these as much as I did writing them, and feel free to leave any thoughts or suggestions you might have. Cheers! MaxMovieMan, JNHFan2000, Gabriel Bezerra and 2 others 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,969 Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Thanks for the 3 teriffic brealdowns!! One question. Would it be possible to do the track by track breakdown for the third as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 11 hours ago, Knight of Ren said: I leave a track by track breakdown to be able to follow it as you are listening to the soundtrack: Track by Track Breakdown Reveal hidden contents Run It Suite – Vocal Version 0:09 Champion 0:30 Champion 0:51 Champion (variation) 1:10 Champion (variation) 1:28 Champion 1:45 Family + Champion 2:01 Rising 2:05 Champion 2:13 Champion + Family 2:23 Champion + Family 2:50 Family + Rising 3:07 Champion 3:26 Champion 3:36 Champion (variation) Checkmate 0:34 Champion 1:20 Champion 1:36 Champion 1:50 Rising 1:58 Family Diamond Dame 1:32 Dame Tea Party 0:44 Family 1:02 Family 1:24 Rising 2:09 Rising 2:25 Family 2:52 Dame Adonis and Damian 0:31 Rising 0:56 Champion Underdog 0:03 Rising + Champion 1:58 Dame Damian’s Plan 0:57 Dame 1:15 Dame Amara 1:14 Family A New Contender 0:13 Felix motif 0:44 Felix motif 1:00 Felix motif Showtime Promo 0:00 Felix motif 0:25 Felix motif 0:40 Felix 0:54 Dame 1:39 Felix + Felix motif 2:10 Felix motif Viene por Sangre – Felix Walkout (feat. JVZEL) 0:01 Felix motif 0:30 Felix motif 0:57 Felix motif Dame vs. Felix 1:12 Dame 1:36 Felix + Felix motif 2:47 Dame 3:32 Felix motif 4:07 Champion 4:36 Champion The Letters 0:58 Champion 1:17 Rising 1:52 Dame 2:43 Dame 3:09 Dame Mary Anne 3:21 Champion Stop Running 0:38 Champion 1:06 Family + Rising 1:19 Rising 1:52 Creed (Göransson) Training Montage (feat. Baby Rose) 0:34 Champion 1:17 Champion 1:49 Dame 2:13 Family 2:26 Drago (Göransson) 2:42 Family 3:50 Rising 4:52 Creed (Göransson) 5:12 Creed (Göransson) 5:25 Family 6:07 Champion 6:25 Champion 6:38 Creed (Göransson) The Void (feat. Maiya Sykes) 0:44 Dame 1:09 Dame 1:16 Champion 2:10 Family 4:38 Champion 4:59 Champion 5:07 Creed (Göransson) Round 12 0:34 Champion 1:20 Rising 1:33 Creed (Göransson) 1:35 Dame + Champion 1:52 Champion 2:25 Victory (Conti) 2:57 Creed (Göransson) + Champion 3:21 Creed (Göransson) 3:39 Champion 4:11 Rising The Champ 0:00 Rising 0:16 Champion 1:24 Family 1:55 Family 2:29 Creed (Göransson) 2:46 Rising 3:02 Family 3:33 Creed (Göransson) Sure thing! I updated my original post with the track by track breakdown. Just to start a little bit of conversation, what would yo say it's your favorite score of the three? I would say the first one, because it's the one that I feel better balances the new themes with Conti's ones, and has both emotion and excitement. The biggest thing that draws it back it's the dialogue in some of the tracks, but that's a minor quibble. But I just love them all so much, because the second one has the Drago theme, and I'm starting to enjoy more and more the third one with each listen, especially the training and fighting tracks. JNHFan2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNHFan2000 2,969 Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 What I like so much about these 3 scores is that you can clearly hear they belong to the same film series, but they each have something that sets them apart from the others. Creed does indeed do a great job at interpolating the themes from Conti. And of course the main Creed theme is incredible. Although I feel the boxing scenes are a bit more about tension and less about melody until the final fight comes to it's conclusion. Creed II I think is my favorite. Mostly because I absolutely adore the Drago theme. And the way it's used in the fight and training scenes is so cool. It's both malevolent and emotional. It's a great theme. And I also feel this is the score which focuses a bit more on Creed's journey and the music follows suit. Creed III I love because it's so different. The material for Damian is quite aggressive and fits the character really well. But what I like most is the use of the vocals in the score. It adds another dimension to the score and therefor the film. I thought it worked tremendously well in the film. So all 3 have their own thing which makes them standout but I think 2 is my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of Ren 789 Posted March 6, 2023 Author Share Posted March 6, 2023 Yeah, for me Drago's theme is on par with the Creed theme for my favorite of this saga, and it was so cool to ehar the little cameo during the training sequence in Creed III. What I love about three is that, as you mention, the vocals are used in more interesting ways. I mean, choir has been present in both the previous scores, but Joseph Shirely manages to make the vocals so important to many of the themes, and the training montage or the Run It suite are great examples of this, but my favorite bit of the use of choir is in Round 12, which never fails to give me chills. JNHFan2000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 The Run It Suite track is terrific. Coupled with the final 4-5 tracks this half an hour selection is already worth the price of the album. While some segments of all three albums might be bit too atmospheric for many listeners, the highlights represent some of the best modern scoring out there with impressive thematic development. I've said it before but Creed theme is one of the finest in the past few decades. Can't wait to see the film (hopefully Thursday), I really enjoyed the previous two. And yes, I was also happy to hear Drago's theme pop up. Karol Knight of Ren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 Joseph Shirley interview that includes Creed talk: Knight of Ren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxMovieMan 273 Posted March 7, 2023 Share Posted March 7, 2023 The Creed theme variation at 2:57 into “Round 12” of Creed III is probably my favorite variation in the whole trilogy. It’s so satisfying after not hearing the theme most of the film and especially while watching in the theater that statement hit hard. Knight of Ren 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestat 348 Posted March 8, 2023 Share Posted March 8, 2023 Appreciate the work these guys do......but hey, bring Bill Conti to consult? He's still around and he knows this stuff better than you guys. Ricard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,374 Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Michael B. Jordan Spearheading ‘Creed-Verse’ In Works At Amazon Across Film & TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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