Expanded Indiana Jones Scores

segliay · September 29, 2003

The dvd's are coming out and still there are no plans for extended soundtracks for all three indiana jones movies.

Why was Raiders Of The Lost Ark given an expanded release and not the other two.

The score to The Temple of doom is missing quite alot of music as is The Last Crusade.

King Mark · September 29, 2003

Why was Raiders Of The Lost Ark given an expanded release and not the other two.

That's one of lifes great mysteries.

K.M.

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · September 29, 2003

Raiders was performed by the LSO, making an expanded release cheaper, since the reuse fees involved are a lot lower.

Stefancos- who solved the mystery. :wave:

King Mark · September 29, 2003

if it boils down to that it really sucks

K.M.

lairdo · September 29, 2003

I think they wanted to do an expanded score of Temple of Doom. I worked on Young Indy, and I remember being called after the show ended asking if I had seen the 2 track masters of Temple of Doom. I told them where I had last seen them (we had used Raiders and Temple of Doom as temp music at times). Unfortunately, the Doom ones had gone missing after I saw them (which was a couple of years before). The Raiders ones, which they had used on the expanded album, were in the same place as I had seen them though, so as far as I know, no one ever knew what happened to them. I have no idea where the multitrack tapes were as I don't think those were at the Ranch.

- Laird

lairdo · September 29, 2003

Also, interestingly, I never saw 2 track mixes of Last Crusade. Ben Burtt did have the multitracks for those in his office at the time, but that's a long time ago.

A24 · September 29, 2003

I worked on Young Indy...
- Laird

So, maybe they're lost!!! :wave: Can't they use the soundtrack from the 70mm prints? That's what they do sometimes, don't they?

Hi Laird, if you don't mind my asking, what exactly did you do on Young Indy?

----------------

Alex Cremers

ymenard · September 30, 2003

If you guys remember the THX original version release (back before the SE), it wasn't a real film-restoration, just a video restoration. Why? Because the original negatives of the original version *no longer exist*. They were burnt down in the mid 90's. All the prints. None exist anymore, perhaps except the one in the Library of congress and the National Film Registry. This comes from a very reliable source. The original negative was cut (!) to make the SE versions. Internegatives, interpositives, and/or dupe prints no longer exist, they were recalled and destroyed at the ranch.

Why would Lucas do this? It's beyond my comprehension. There would be nothing more intelligent then to release the DVD's with BOTH versions of the film, like E.T. That would be perfect, everybody would be pleased. Both the fans, and Lucasfilm LTD.

Lurker · September 30, 2003

If you guys remember the THX original version release (back before the SE), it wasn't a real film-restoration, just a video restoration. Why? Because the original negatives of the original version *no longer exist*. They were burnt down in the mid 90's. All the prints. None exist anymore, perhaps except the one in the Library of congress and the National Film Registry. This comes from a very reliable source. The original negative was cut (!) to make the SE versions. Internegatives, interpositives, and/or dupe prints no longer exist, they were recalled and destroyed at the ranch.

Huh???

Neil

Melange · September 30, 2003

It's quite incredible that such works of musical art are left around "In Bob's office i think, under the empty McDonalds carton". Quite incredible. As for the film prints, the weirdest one was a lot of footage from the movie "Wicker Man" with Christopher Lee and Edward Woodward. Much of the the original film prints and outakes were kept in somebodys back garden shed for years and then apparently buried under what is now one of the major motorways (highway) in England. Amazing what goes on in the industry. LOL

King Mark · September 30, 2003

I think they wanted to do an expanded score of Temple of Doom. I worked on Young Indy, and I remember being called after the show ended asking if I had seen the 2 track masters of Temple of Doom. I told them where I had last seen them (we had used Raiders and Temple of Doom as temp music at times). Unfortunately, the Doom ones had gone missing after I saw them (which was a couple of years before). The Raiders ones, which they had used on the expanded album, were in the same place as I had seen them though, so as far as I know, no one ever knew what happened to them. I have no idea where the multitrack tapes were as I don't think those were at the Ranch.
- Laird

I have no idea who you are but I am suddently very nervous that we"ll never hear these score restored,and ToD outside of the movie.

K.M.Who have never dared think the master tapes were lost or stolen.

King Mark · September 30, 2003

Also, interestingly, I never saw 2 track mixes of Last Crusade. Ben Burtt did have the multitracks for those in his office at the time, but that's a long time ago.

but the LC master tapes must of ended up in the wrong hands at some point because a boot was made.Maybe the ToD tapes got into somekind of accident.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

K.M.who thinks Ben Burtt burned them

King Mark · September 30, 2003

Wait,if ToD or LC scores are re-mixed in 5.1 for the DVD,they must still have isolated music in some format to do that?,right?

K.M.

Lurker · September 30, 2003

Not at all, Mark. I'm sure the new 5.1 mixes are simply derived from the 70mm six track mixes.

Neil

tharpdevenport · September 30, 2003

Wait wait wait ... let me get this straight - someone stole the multitrack tapes and hasn't passed onto us a good sounding boot yet? Shame on whoever you are!

And mail the damn things back. When and if we do get complete score releases, I want the best sound they can muster mister. 8O

King Mark · September 30, 2003

So these tapes get passed around carelessely from one department to the next.They managed to lose some music from Return of the Jedi,didn't they?Were thinking,thank god it was only the sail barge music,but it could have been worse.But the whole ToD,that's terrible.And at this point in time,it's becomming a plausible explaination.

Maybe Lucasfilm doesn't have the nerve to admit it,keeping us hoping an album will be made eventually.

K.M.

King Mark · September 30, 2003

Wait wait wait ... let me get this straight - someone stole the multitrack tapes and hasn't passed onto us a good sounding boot yet?

How about someone stole the tapes for the purpose of making a boot,but accidently destroyed them in the attempt,those things are fragile and brittle after a while.If there was a boot,we'd have heard about it by now.

K.M.

A24 · October 1, 2003

On the other hand, I'm pretty satisfied with the sound quality of Raiders of the Lost Ark and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. We might not have it all but at least it sounds good. If new expanded soundtracks do pop up, well, how is their sound quality going to be? These old masters and prints are deteriorating fast now. And I'm not a big fan of a restorated sound. It's like the old Alex North soundtracks from the Sixties. You can listen to them and feel some sort of authenticity but I prefer the rerecordings made by Jerry Goldsmith. Then there's no distraction, only eargasms. And Jerry, a North fan himself, does an amazing job capturing the spirit and essence of another composer. Heck, he's almost a better rerecorder than he is a composer.

In the future the definitive recording of the Star Wars and Indiana Jones movies might indeed be a rerecording. I think it's the only way!

----------------

Alex Cremers

Lurker · October 1, 2003

I'm not a big fan of a restorated sound.

I'm not a big fan of made up words.

Neil

A24 · October 1, 2003

I'm not a big fan of made up words.
Neil

Yes, teacher, it was stupid of me. I'll try not to do it again.

----------------

Alex Cremers-who has ordered the restored version of The Fury and is now anxiously waiting.

nja · October 2, 2003

It's quite incredible that such works of musical art are left around "In Bob's office i think, under the empty McDonalds carton". Quite incredible.

Incredible but unfortunately not unusual. I have been involved with a number of situations where audio cuts had to be recorded because somebody recorded over the original or just plain lost the tape.

Perhaps the age of digital and optical media will help remedy the situation, but with the inevitable factor of human involvement (studio execs at that) I'm sure they'll never fail to find some way to destroy the good stuff.

Well, enough "half-empty" for one night. I'm going to bed.

King Mark · October 2, 2003

Well,nevertheless,if it turns out those ToD tapes are lost or destroyed,it's gotta be the worst JW related news ever .

K.M.

Lurker · October 2, 2003

I don't think the TOD tapes are lost permanently.

Neil

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · October 2, 2003

Neither do I, you are a bit panicy, KM.

Stefancos-

Morn · October 2, 2003

And Jerry, a North fan himself, does an amazing job capturing the spirit and essence of another composer. Heck, he's almost a better rerecorder than he is a composer.

Yeah but he's not flawless, sometimes the original is the best version. :music: Erich Kunzel gets North extremely well too. Ironic that this is a TOD topic because that score is quite Northish, too bad about the tapes, although I take this as just rumour.

October 21, 2003

Yah people are being too reactionary. I am sure even if 2 track masters are gone, there is a multitrack recording that would be remixed anyway. Studios take good care of the original recordings...

Rogue_Leader · October 22, 2003

They should rescore the last two films with the LSO and re-release the scores. It wont happen but when I rule all it will!

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · October 22, 2003

Yah people are being too reactionary. I am sure even if 2 track masters are gone, there is a multitrack recording that would be remixed anyway. Studios take good care of the original recordings...

Actually, you would be surprise of how bad film studios take care of their master tapes.

Stefancos- who's still pissed off that mastertapes of Barry's From Russia With Love and Moonraker are missing or destroyed.

Rogue_Leader · October 24, 2003

LEts just pray that if there ever if a full expanded release of the Indy scores they don't decide to "Ultimate Edition" them.

King Mark · October 24, 2003

LEts just pray that if there ever if a full expanded release of the Indy scores they don't decide to "Ultimate Edition" them.

in this case that would be just fine

K.M.

Chris ChrusherComix · October 24, 2003

The 5.1 soundmix certainly sounds like they have some excellent sounding copies of each score out there. I don't buy this crap that they are all lost. Certainly, some copies could be misplaced, destroyed, or stolen, but I would be willing to bet that some excellent sounding copies were involved in the creation of these 5.1 sound channels. I know, I've been listening to them. They sound better than they ever have in the movie itself, that's for sure.

-Chris, Who's homemade TOD expanded edition is almost done, and he is pleased with his personal edition until we ever get something officially done.

Justin · October 24, 2003

LEts just pray that if there ever if a full expanded release of the Indy scores they don't decide to "Ultimate Edition" them.
in this case that would be just fine

I agree. In fact that would be awesome. Considering the music isn't edited up in the movies. Although I would prefer a SE type release. (Duh!)

Justin -Who thinks Rogue is being too negative about these things.

Jeshopk · October 24, 2003

In the 4th disc on the DVD, I think there are times where unreleased Temple of Doom music is playing over interviews without sound effects or dialogue. I refer to the rope bridge music. Perhaps this is proof that an expanded CD could be made.

I'm at work, so somebody at home check it and report!

Well, that is not a command, ratherm an excited suggestion.

Lurker · October 24, 2003

I would be willing to bet that some excellent sounding copies were involved in the creation of these 5.1 sound channels. I know, I've been listening to them. They sound better than they ever have in the movie itself, that's for sure.

The new 5.1 tracks were derived from the original 70mm six track mixes that were made at the time of each films release. Raiders and Temple of Doom were ever so slightly tweaked for stereo surrounds since they did not have them on their initial releases. Last Crusade did have split surrounds in 1989.

Considering the music isn't edited up in the movies.

There is plenty of editing of the music in the Indy films. "Miracle of the Ark" runs about a minute shorter in the film. When Indy topples over the statue in the Well of Souls, the Indy fanfare is tracked in from "Airplane Fight". There is a looped section in "Bug Tunnel and Death Trap" in the film and I'm sure there are more examples in Temple of Doom we just haven't heard the music. But on the whole though they are not as massacred as the last couple of Star Wars scores.

Neil

Rogue_Leader · October 24, 2003

LEts just pray that if there ever if a full expanded release of the Indy scores they don't decide to "Ultimate Edition" them.
in this case that would be just fine
K.M.

You would be OK with that? Really? 8O

This board went ape s$%^ the last time that was done. Mixing and editing tracks together in a poor fashion. Why would it be OK here?

Rogue_Leader · October 24, 2003

I agree. In fact that would be awesome. Considering the music isn't edited up in the movies.

Actually thats true! I didn't think about it that way. You are correct! Doing a release of the score as it was presented in the films wouldn't be a bad thing in this case. I really just meant screwing around with the original recording and not presenting the music as it was meant to be heard.

Justin -Who thinks Rogue is being too negative about these things.

OK admittedly yes I am. However its not like my pessimism is just appearing out of thin air. The past few SW releases have made me this way.

Marian Schedenig · October 25, 2003

As Neil said, there ARE some pretty strong edits in the Raiders score, most notably in the finale, with quite long bits of music simply missing.

Of course, there are other unedited bits of music in the film that aren't even on the so-called "complete" boot. :roll:

Marian - patiently waiting for expanded, uncut deluxe editions.

Rogue_Leader · October 26, 2003

We need to get the dude who did the SW SE releases. That was the pinnacle of soundtrack release quality,

#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal · October 26, 2003

That would be Nick Redman.

And I agree, he's great.

Stefancos- who thinks Mike Mattesino's work on Superman is as good if not better.

Marian Schedenig · October 26, 2003

But please get a different team for the remastering job, otherwise they will sound worse than the existing Indy CDs.

Marian - who thinks the remastered CE3K sounds MUCH MUCH better than the SW SEs.

Rogue_Leader · October 27, 2003

Stefancos- who thinks Mike Mattesino's work on Superman is as good if not better.

I am with you 100% on that. His work is also great. When they release those expanded LOTR scores next year I hope one of those two guys works on em. Long shot but I can hope.

King Mark · October 28, 2003

LEts just pray that if there ever if a full expanded release of the Indy scores they don't decide to "Ultimate Edition" them.
in this case that would be just fine
K.M.
You would be OK with that? Really? 8O
This board went ape s$%^ the last time that was done. Mixing and editing tracks together in a poor fashion. Why would it be OK here?

TPM is one thing.The Indy scores are fine in the films,so a direct transfer of the scores as they appear in the films would be ok by me.

K.M.

Chris ChrusherComix · November 2, 2003

My 1st copy. I'll probably make revised editions in the future, especially if someone could help me with the editing... but for now, this is what I came up with:

Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom

ChrusherPromos DVD EXTRACTED VERSION (1st draft)

DISC ONE (79:57):

Film Versions (Extracted from DVD, May include sound effects)

1. Anything Goes: Cole Porter (2:48)

2. Shanghai, 1935, Club Obi Wan (0:13)

3. Deal For The Diamond / Too Much to Drink (6:23)

4. Fast Streets of Shanghai (3:46)

5. Over The Himalayas (3:26)

6. Slalom on Mt. Humol (2:16)

7. Mayapore, The Starving Village (1:29)

8. A Plea For Help / Sankara / Fortune & Glory (5:56)

9. Short Round's Theme (2:29)

10. The Jungle At Night / Approaching Pankot Palace (4:21)

11. Pankot Palace: Source Music (1:39)

12. Audience With The Maharajah (4:43)

13. The Feast / Chilled Monkey Brains (0:43)

14. Nocturnal Activities / Behind The Walls (9:23)

15. The Bug Tunnel & Death Trap (3:23)

16. The Temple Of Doom Pt. 1: Mola Ram & The Alter Of Kali / Stealing Back

The Stones (9:41)

17. Children In Chains / Captives Of The Thugee / A True Believer (7:57)

18. The Temple Of Doom Pt. 2: Willie's Sacrifice / Shortround's Escape

(4:52)

19. The Temple Of Doom Pt. 3: The Rescue (4:19)

DISC TWO (79:47)

1. The Temple Of Doom Pt. 2: Willie's Sacrifice / Shortround's Escape / The

Rescue (8:25)

2. The Slave Children's Crusade (3:15)

3. Underground Heroics (4:46)

4. Scream (0:04)

5. The Mine Car Chase Pt. 1 (1:57)

6. The Mine Car Chase Pt. 2 (1:11)

7. Deadly Flood / Cliff Confrontation / The Bridge / The Return To Mayapore

/ End Credits (17:33)

8. The Trek To Pankot Palace (No SFX)

Album Versions:

9. Anything Goes: Written by Cole Porter (2:49)

10. Fast Streets Of Shanghai (3:39)

11. Nocturnal Activities (5:53)

12. Short Round's Theme (2:27)

13. Children In Chains (2:41)

14. Slalom On Mt. Humol (2:22)

15. The Temple Of Doom (2:58)

16. Bug Tunnel and Death Trap (3:28)

17. Slave Children's Crusade (3:22)

18. The Mine Car Chase (3:38)

19. Finale and End Credits (6:18)

20. Club Obi-Wan Piano Solo: Bonus Source Music (1:27)

The sound effcts aren't too bad in this one. IMO, it's the best since Hook. A couple of places, like the Kali Temple for example... but none all that bad. Actually surprised, myself.

As you all have concluded, since these scores aren't edited very badly (Ok, co plaining about one harsh edit or one loops is crazy considering that almost every second of the Star Wars Prequels has been cut, looped, dissected, ect...). So, in this case, an Ultimate-Edition-esque release (with the couple harsh edits corrected), would be excellent. It wouldn't be anything like TPM:UE (but even THAT I prefer over nothing at all).

Neil: I don't know what the elements were, but the music has never been clearer, and I am 100% positive that the creators of these DVDs have excellent, high qiuality copies of these complete scores, at LEAST the way that they were edited within the films (which, as I said before, is VERY good with only a small small amount of notable edits, and most are on previously released material... we aren't dealing with Star Wars prequels here).

-Chris, Who's almost done with expanded Empire Of The Sun and a complete Black Sunday that kicks the pants off the crappy boots. Hehehehe...

Rogue_Leader · November 2, 2003

HOLY CRAP! 160 minutes worth of music for Temple of Doom??

DAMN! Now THAT is something!

Lurker · November 2, 2003

Chris, I know what was used for the soundtracks on these releases. It's the original 70mm 6 track mixes. They did not go back to separate music, dialogue and effects tracks. That would be pointless becuase it's obvious that a high quality multi-channel soundtrack already existed.

Neil

Chris ChrusherComix · November 2, 2003

Neil: I'm saying that the music is clearly heard with surprisingly few sound effects. These 70mm 6 track mixes that you speak of contained a rather unmolested score on it. The commercials claim that these are all new 5.1 mixes (whatever that means), so I think there is a great chance that they had the clean scores. Maybe they are the edited-to-the-film isolated scores with the few edits and loops, but very clean nonetheless. At least compared to most DVD mixes, and no comparison with the Star Wars Prequels, which are just atrocious on every level (a shame that I must always complain about, but perhaps it's because I loved TPM's score and liked AOTC.).

Rogue Leader: It's not 160 minutes. It's around 120. I had an extra 40 or so minutes, so I tacked on the OST CD at the end. I like to do it that way so I have evrything on 2 discs. When I make my own compilations, I usually will stick as much as I possibly can on them.

Lurker · November 3, 2003

Chris, believe what you want. I'm telling you, these films were not re-mixed from the separate elements. The 6 track mix was used as the basis for the new 5.1 tracks.

Neil

Kevin McCallister · November 3, 2003

No edits in the Temple of Doom score ehh?

Temple Of Doom

First of all, several cues are glued together throughout the film.

Big Tunnel And Death Trap is looped in a few areas.

The Temple music is heavily butchered, in both sqeuences.

There is an edit just as Short Round hits the Maharajah's hand from getting the Indy doll.

A section of the Mine Car scene is dialed out of the film.

Underground Heroics has several obvious edits.

The End Credits is edited as well.

King Mark · November 3, 2003

well,they are "normal" edits 8O .Can you name a film that doesn't have any at all?

K.M.

Lurker · November 3, 2003

There are no music edits in The China Syndrome.

Neil

Expanded Indiana Jones Scores

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