nja 0 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 A new support group for those have yet to discern the elements of good literature.In all seriousness and not for the purpose of belittling or being condescending torward anyone (least of all our fine MB moderator) I am curious the reasons people would give for not liking LOTR (books or movies). I think few would argue that they set the bar for fantasy writing of any kind (trusting Steef and Wael can restrain their ribald responses to that statement), and the literary quality of the character development, dialogue etc. is second to none.Perhaps other fans would have some speculation on why some feel this way.THA . . . maybe it's not such a bad idea after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I'm not a fanatic of the LOTR movies & all the hullabaloo because....well.....They're not Conan the Barbarian and LOTR was not scored by Basil poledouris (the director of LOTR must of been out of his mind NOT to approach Poledouris for LOTR). If the movies had been a combination of Conan and Excalibur, then they would of been fantastic. For the most part, i found the LOTR movies seem to be out on a mission to bludgeon my senses into submisson with effects, sheer noise, and running around all the time in the hope that i may be fooled into thinking that they are well made. In reality, i knew they were'nt and i think they're badly paced indeed at times. The score is way overated, the cameras are flying all over the place in fancy directions and nobody really cares about the characters they way they do when they read the superb books. But i'll still go and see the last movie That's my entry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I think you'll find that Tolkien himself answers this question in his forward. I think it's odd that you seem to propose that anyone who likes fantasy and good literary will like LOTR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Most fantasy of that kind bores me. I can't get into wizards and dragons and all of that nonsense. I've tried. I read The Hobbit and I saw the first film. I found them both boring and episodic. Can't say I didn't try though.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I don't hate Tolkein- I have as much respect for him as I do any author. I don't like the movies for two main reasons- I feel they took the easy way out by making Aragorn the hero with his trusty sidekicks, and thus TOTALY missing the heart of the books. I think making gimli the comic relief is inexcusable, and they kept Frodo's presence in the movie to a bare minimum. Aragorn was the hero for most of the movie, and any scene with Frodo- Gollum was the hero. The second reason is the Elijah Wood is a horrible actor with an even worse voice. Everything about him screams FAKE!. I don't understand why a movie with such a huge budget couldn't spring for some decent hair for the hobbits. The wigs are awfull. But- aside from that, as a stand alone effort- the first movie is overlong and boring, but the second film great and engaging, with some of the most fantastic cinematography, choreography and battles I've ever seen. But it's not Tolkein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Mostly I don't like the nerds... much like I don't like the Potter nerds or the Trek nerds (mostly the DS9 nerds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Then why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I love irony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Mostly I don't like the nerds... much like I don't like the Potter nerds or the Trek nerds (mostly the DS9 nerds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 i love your post stefan. HA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I like fantasy very much. I think the LOTR books are great literary pieces. But i prefer other fantasy worlds since Tolkien's does not have dragons (only one...) or wizards (only five - whom we only know three and one only named), but i havent anything against them. The movies are another mater, i dont like the much praise they get just for being based on that good books, I dont say they are bad, but not that goodFurthemore Gandalf and Saruman do not 'show' themselves as they did in the book, i could count the spells in those movies with one hand. The duel was cool, but i would have made it with spells... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Luke, there is more then one Dragon in the works of Tolkien, and of that, the Silmarillion tells.Stefancos- who prefers Balrogs to dragons anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I'm not a fantasy fan. I kinda liked the first one even though it was merely marching from one battlefield to another. In the second one the pacing was all wrong and character development became suddenly non-existing. The magic that now and then surfaced in the first movie was already lost. Pete! Pete! Pete! How did you managed to do that? (Even George maintained or exceeded the magic in his second Star Wars film. Is he a wunderkind after all?)I'm no Potter fan either, who could be after the age of ten? And the Matrix series also stranded immensely with their number two.I think the signs are clear. May a new Wonderkind arise swiftly from the boredom that is manifesting in Hollywood but now also New Zealand. -----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 many many people are potter fans after the age of 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanED 1 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 I know many college kids who are big Potter fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Amazing how some people here who seemed to be intelligent have just proven otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Everybody is entitled to their own opinions.I have no problem with people not liking LOTR or Tolkien.I only have a problem with that little piss ass Hector, and his totally uncalled for comments towards me.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 now now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I'm pretty sure I replied to this thread before the site vanished. Now the site's back, but my post has vanished. Marian - getting ready for his private FOTR:EE/TTT:EE double feature in 8 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont know what all the hooplah is about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 It's deja vu all over again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Touche' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 QuestionMarkMan, everyone![audience cheers] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 He, wasn't I angry with somebody here?Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Seems my original post never showed up.The only thing I dislike about Tolkien is how long winded his books can get. Especially the opening of the first LOTR book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 That's why I only see the movies.Hector - who can't wait for Lord of the Rings 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I said something about the books being so fulled with desciptions that it's more than just a novel it's a whole world. Heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I'm watching a special of LOTR on ABC right now... be back later... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Luke, there is more then one Dragon in the works of Tolkien, and of that, the Silmarillion tells.Stefancos- who prefers Balrogs to dragons anyway.oh yeah right. I already knew that, but it is like the wizards: only one really appears and does something (the wizards being two)That's not very fantastic in my point of view.Anyway, Dragons eat Balrogs for dinner...**This was my own remark, it does not appear in the books at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 oh yeah right. I already knew that, but it is like the wizards: only one really appears and does something (the wizards being two)Two of them do a lot, Gandalf and Saruman. And the reason why Gandalf is not constantly throwing spells in all directions is that the Istari's task is to guide the peoples of Middle-earth without taking too active roles in the battle against Sauron. They were sent as support, not to do all the work for the others.That's not very fantastic in my point of view.That's why I like it. I don't care about fantasy for fantasy's sake.Anyway, Dragons eat Balrogs for dinner...*I doubt the Uruloki would be a serious threat to the Valarauka. Marian - who'd like to point out that at least two dragons feature prominently in Tolkien's writings. Looney Tunes (Jerry Goldsmith) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 You dont like fantasy in fantasy novels?Then read medieval ones or history books... Lots of battles and epic quests there...I think Tolkien did not know how to write about spells or something. Why ever create Wizards if they only act as wise men?Anyway, Saruman being evil, he could have 'jumped' that law, and therefore drag Gandalf to fight him at his levelIf my new signature pic is annoying or takes a heel to load in your computer feel free to tell me, so i will return to the older one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 You dont like fantasy in fantasy novels?Then read medieval ones or history books... Lots of battles and epic quests there...I think Tolkien did not know how to write about spells or something. Why ever create Wizards if they only act as wise men?Oh go read Harry Potter or something like that...Anyway, Saruman being evil, he could have 'jumped' that law, and therefore drag Gandalf to fight him at his levelLike the breakdance style fight in the film FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING?If my new signature pic is annoying or takes a heel to load in your computer feel free to tell me, so i will return to the older one.Hmmm...a sample from Ep III is it?CGI Yoda is looking even worse then in AOTC.Stefancos- reading LOTR for the 4rth time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 You dont like fantasy in fantasy novels?I usually don't like something very much if it's only about being genre and nothing else. "Fantasy" seems to get overused easily. If everything is full of fairies and wizards, it's more boring than fantastic.Then read medieval ones or history books... Lots of battles and epic quests there...Or rather, ancient stories based on ancient history...which is what Tolkien was trying to fake. I think Tolkien did not know how to write about spells or something. Why ever create Wizards if they only act as wise men?Because that's what really makes them impressive and wise. And they do use spells. Giving them the power to destroy a whole army of Orcs with a firestorm by the raise of a finger would be easy, but what would be fascinating about it?Anyway, Saruman being evil, he could have 'jumped' that law,He did.and therefore drag Gandalf to fight him at his levelThat he couldn't. Which is part of the whole point. Marian - reminding Luke that Saruman's voice alone was a very powerful magical tool already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I love the books, i just do not like Howard Shore, he did have anice score for the moves, but honestly knowone that I can think of today is better than our John Williams, I hope that none of you would disagree. I think that JW was robbed by howard at the awards last year. Catch me if you Can was mor inventive and more fulfilling than LofR. So thats why, the movies are good, the music just sounds like a mix between Jurassic Park and Star Wars. So basically I do not like Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I think that JW was robbed by howard at the awards last year.Howard Shore was not nominated last year. Catch me if you Can was mor inventive and more fulfilling than LofR. That's your opinion, but Fellowship Of The Ring won it's Oscar the year before CMIYC was nominated.So thats why, the movies are good, the music just sounds like a mix between Jurassic Park and Star Wars.I frankly cannot find a single instance were anything from Shore's LOTR score's sounds like Jurassic Park.So basically I do not like Howard.As a person?Stefancos- puzzled by this post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 So thats why, the movies are good, the music just sounds like a mix between Jurassic Park and Star Wars.Come again?- Marc, wondering where this all came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well, I mean he is a nice person, i have seen him in concert and on DVD's but I just think that his music is not inspiring like JWs Kaemans Horners, Goldsmiths, dare I say it, Elfman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well, that's your opinion, and you are well entitled to it.But please tell me were you think any of the LOTR music sounds like Jurassic Park or Star Wars?Stefancos- who has listened to SW, JP and LOTR countless times and thinks all 3 are brilliant, and very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 They all are brillant, just listen to Welcome to Jurassic Park, and then the Empire Stikes Back, Stefancos, do you not think that they sound like LOTR. I think they do, I might be wrong, but they sound so similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskobolus 3 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I think that JW was robbed by howard at the awards last year.Howard Shore was not nominated last year. Catch me if you Can was mor inventive and more fulfilling than LofR. That's your opinion, but Fellowship Of The Ring won it's Oscar the year before CMIYC was nominated.So thats why, the movies are good, the music just sounds like a mix between Jurassic Park and Star Wars.I frankly cannot find a single instance were anything from Shore's LOTR score's sounds like Jurassic Park.So basically I do not like Howard.As a person?Stefancos- puzzled by this post?marveling at the ways in which stefancos makes me laugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I'm sorry, but no, I can't agree with you. LotR has a very different sound, and I can't think of many compositional similarities that seem blatant.- Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I might be wrong, but they sound so similar.All 3 are performed by a symphony orchesta, that it.The Empire Strikes back is very...very different from Jurassic Park, and both sound nothing like LOTR.Can you please name a cue that you think is similar?Stefancos- utterly confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont like confusing you, you are to intelligent. Just to let you all know, I will be goign to Keith Lockhardts Christmas thing in boston with the pos, i will try to see if they are playing any williams music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I dont like confusing you, you are to intelligent.That's the nicest thing someone here has ever said to me.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 That is hard to believe....You seem to know music well..music is intelligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Looks like the ban on large signatures has been lifted. Time to bring mine back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Only select members can sport bigger signatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 To my knowledge that is untrue.Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Like the breakdance style fight in the film FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING?You know, i like that scene, but i would have used spells as (i think) they did one the book. Anyway, i didnt know wizards in LOTR controlled the FORCE :roll: And Marian, they do not have to possess the power to destroy armies in a whisper, but anyway being wizards on both sides it would be balanced. Furthermore it depends on what you like. I dont find battling armies as entertaining as wizards entering the fray along with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 You know, i like that scene, but i would have used spells as (i think) they did one the book.That scene wasn't in the book.Anyway, i didnt know wizards in LOTR controlled the FORCE :roll:I think telekinesis is one of the most ancient "magic tricks".And Marian, they do not have to possess the power to destroy armies in a whisper, but anyway being wizards on both sides it would be balanced.Not really. Saruman the White was stronger than Gandalf the Grey. And he did use some of his magic, like his voice, or explosives (to the peoples of that time, that was magic). Gandalf the White on the other hand was stronger as Saruman the ex-White, and he did use some magic against him.Plus Gandalf uses magic, e.g. light in Moria, his healing of Theoden, occasional fire (in the books).Furthermore it depends on what you like. I dont find battling armies as entertaining as wizards entering the fray along with them.I don't find battling armies that entertaining. It's the plot and the characters in it that makes them interesting.Marian - Looney Tunes (Jerry Goldsmith) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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