Williams scores only 40 minutes for Hp Cos?

[Morn 8]

Williams however hasn't really touched the generic type of film much. Harry Potter is generic for him

[Jay 37,417]

Spielberg should delay his "Catch me if you Can" film until summer 2003. I mean hell, he already has a 2002 movie, why blow his chances of getting an oscar nomination by having two movies for the academy members to pick from?

Plus, if CMIYC was delayed until 2003, that would not only give JW something to score in 2003, but give him more time to score HP&TCOS this year, so he could do it all himself.

-Jason, who just realized that JW will have to score HP3, SW3, and IJ4 within a very short time as well, because they all come out witin 6 months of each other.

[Morn 8]

I doubt Spielberg cares about an oscar after loosing so much

[Harry Potter 0]

But he could do it as a favor to his buddy John.

~Harry

[Morn 8]

Maybe... if he asked. But I don't think he would.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

-Jason, who just realized that JW will have to score HP3, SW3, and IJ4 within a very short time as well, because they all come out witin 6 months of each other.

That is not correct.

Prisoner of Azkaban comes out Summer 2004, while Ep. III comes out May 2005, and Indy comes out June 29th, 2005.

Joe

[Guest]

Oh no, another HACK will destroy Williams. Will this be another JPIII

type thing, where the main theme is Williams, and the rest is crappy MIDI

type stuff by someone else. Don Davis sucks!!!!!!!! Or is JW composing ALL the music, and is this other guy only conducting?

[Morn 8]

Hack? MIDI type stuff? What the hell are you on about? Don Davis sucks? Have you heard The Matrix?

[Guest]

I don't think we should worry that William Ross will make a hash of HP if he does indeed collaborate with Williams. He is an excellent orchestrator (Most of Alan Silvestri's scores were done by him) and has worked with Williams already on A.I. arranging 'For Always'.

As Jamesyboy stated if you have any doubts check out his score for 'My Dog Skip', it's gorgeous! His scores for My Fellow Americans and the finale of 'Tin Cup' are also great!

[Dinko 0]

Here's a question to those unhappy with William Ross:

How many of you have heard William Ross' scores?

What is it that you don't like about his music?

or the other way around:

How many of you have never heard any of William Ross' scores?

How can you judge, if you haven't heard a note of his?

I'm sort of curious,

- given that William Ross is extremely unknown (compared with the big names: Williams, Goldsmith, Zimmer, etc)

- given that William Ross has not scored (m)any major blockbusters

- given that William Ross' scores are not available commercially on a wide scale (except My Dog Skip {Varese Sarabande}, The Evening Star {EMI/Angel} and 10-minute suite from My Fellow Americans {TVT Soundtrax}).

And if it means anything, read this little snipped from Warner Bros' website:

In addition, Ross received a Pulitzer Prize nomination in music for "Truman Suite for Speaker and Orchestra," commissioned in honor of the late president Harry S. Truman.

( http://mydogskip.warnerbros.com/cmp/filmk.html )

Not everyone gets to be commissioned to compose in honour of a president. Let alone be nominated for a Pulitzer.

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

Strange... over on Moviemusic.com's message boards, there seems to be dancing in the aisles over this news...

That's why I don't post as often there as I used to

[diskobolus 3]

what i want to know is why John Williams isn't doing the entire score... the only other project on the map is Catch Me If You Can, right?

[Steven Awalt 0]

   Oh no, another HACK will destroy Williams. Will this be another JPIII

type thing, where the main theme is Williams, and the rest is crappy MIDI

type stuff by someone else. Don Davis sucks!!!!!!!! Or is JW composing ALL the music, and is this other guy only conducting?

Maybe I have no ear, but I actually liked Davis' work on JP3. When I heard Williams wasn't doing it, I was really disapointed. After giving Davis a chance though, I think his work doesn't "suck". I'm not very familiar with Davis, but my JP3 CD doesn't sound like the work of an out-and-out hack by any means.

[charlesk 0]

Williams has many times expressed how much he loves making film music. If he decided not to score completely HP2, it's just because:

1.- There are some other more interesting projects

2.- HP2 does not have the elements for Williams to keep evolving and innovating.

3.- HP2 is not a movie of the category of a full Williams score. HP1 was barely passable.

4.- Williams is a icredibly prolific composer, and we should not worry that he is not composing a full score, because for sure there will be other interesting works that same year.

5.- Williams is maybe trying to find a succesor. He's unfortunately not inmortal (his music I think it IS!). Finding a succesor is a dificult task, but nevertheless, he can always try (he already knows that Don Davis is not the one, and Courage is too old).

So, calm down. I agree, I don't like Williams composing music for children's movies.

[Harry Potter 0]

out of the living composers, who do you then think could carry out the uneasy task of building upon good Williams' standards?

How about David Arnold???

~Harry

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Williams has many times expressed how much he loves making film music. If he decided not to score completely HP2, it's just because:

1.- There are some other more interesting projects

2.- HP2 does not have the elements for Williams to keep evolving and innovating.

3.- HP2 is not a movie of the category of a full Williams score. HP1 was barely passable.

4.- Williams is a icredibly prolific composer, and we should not worry that he is not composing a full score, because for sure there will be other interesting works that same year.

5.- Williams is maybe trying to find a succesor. He's unfortunately not inmortal (his music I think it IS!). Finding a succesor is a dificult task, but nevertheless, he can always try (he already knows that Don Davis is not the one, and Courage is too old).  

So, calm down. I agree, I don't like Williams composing music for children's movies.

I'm confused as to how Hary Potter fits into your last statement.

Ray Barnsbury

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

This sort of happened with Superman 4. According to reports he wrote Nuclear Man's theme, and most of the score was adapted from his thematic material from the original Superman as well.

[Kradia 1]

4. Williams is a icredibly prolific composer, and we should not worry that he is not composing a full score, because for sure there will be other interesting works that same year.  

5.- Williams is maybe trying to find a succesor. He's unfortunately not inmortal (his music I think it IS!). Finding a succesor is a dificult task, but nevertheless, he can always try (he already knows that Don Davis is not the one, and Courage is too old).  

This are the reasons I thought of, too. Sad, really. But, I hope this William Ross will do a good job.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

How about David Arnold???

~Harry

Well, Harry, it's difficult for me to "choose" a successor-composer whom I

could have counted upon compositional wise as same as I have once

begun to "trust" John Williams (I buy his scores and especially concert

pieces without having to listen to them before I grab them). Sure I have

heard of and from David Arnold, but the only score I can recollect as to

having been impressed by is "Godzilla" (Lord I hope he did do this one.)

My weakness is that I am perhaps much too much grounded in classical

music lands and the only reason for me to ever begin being interested in

film music was back at that time a score "Seven Years in Tibet". I didn't

know who had composed it back then and I didn't care much and the only

thing I knew for sure was that I needed that score....

Hmm, it's a bit of a too long story, too much for you guys to chew here.

The fact is that much of what is "IN" these days (Zimmer, Goldenthal,

Portman) leaves me cold so I don't much join discussions elsewhere being

sure to be thought benighted. The fact is Williams' music is what I love (I

couldn't also do without his more serious works). I also, on occasion, buy

scores by other composers; I have some James Horner's (LotF,

Braveheart, ...), Jerry Goldsmith's (Omen, Basic Instinct,...), Danny

Elfman (Batman I, Black Beauty,...) and especially Miklós Rózsa stuff too.

But it's all so costly for me. In the country I live in the CDs costs are set

too high plus scores are hard to find.

Yesterday, rather than having bought "Spider Man" by Elfman, I picked up

yet another, my eighth so far, rendering of the ninth symphony by my

compatriot Antonin Dvorak. That's how it often goes.

Well, okay, too many words on too little of subject; I haven't yet found a

potential successor for John Williams. Sometimes I wish Johnny was

either younger or I was, ergo, older...

Cheer up!

Yoda L.:alien:

[Hlao-roo 389]

Yesterday, rather than having bought "Spider Man" by Elfman, I picked up

yet another, my eighth so far, rendering of the ninth symphony by my

compatriot Antonin Dvorak. That's how it often goes.  

Yoda L.:alien:

I bet you and Evan Driscoll might have something in common...

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

I bet you and Evan Driscoll might have something in common...

I am new to this board so I don't know many of you. Who is Ewan Driscoll

to whom I am compared? Is it a flattery?

[ChrisAfonso 188]

Hey, think of Air Force One! That one is a prime example of how such a thing can work. From listening to the music alone I could hardly tell what of it is Goldsmith and what of it is McNeely, and all of it is great! It all comes down to whether the "helping" composer has the skill to pull this off or not. Let's wait until the score comes out to judge it.

-Chris

[Harry Potter 0]

I was watching Air Force One the other day trying to decide which music in the film was done by which composer. It's a difficult task, but I think some of the music doesn't sound as tense as Goldsmith would have composed it, so I assumed those action parts were scored by McNeely, who did a good job on that score.

~Harry

[Morn 8]

Here's a question to those unhappy with William Ross:

How many of you have heard William Ross' scores?

What is it that you don't like about his music?

or the other way around:

How many of you have never heard any of William Ross' scores?

How can you judge, if you haven't heard a note of his?

The odds are he can't do as good job as JW

Not everyone gets to be commissioned to compose in honour of a president. Let alone be nominated for a Pulitzer.

That is quite encouraging. 8O

what i want to know is why John Williams isn't doing the entire score... the only other project on the map is Catch Me If You Can, right?

He's 70 and has recently been working non-stop and needs a break. Either that, or it conflicts with when Catch Me If You Can needs to be scored.

How about David Arnold???

NO!!! HE can not be or film music is screwed! He's quite fun... but definately not great and not a replacement for Williams. I have some problems with him.

Hmm, it's a bit of a too long story, too much for you guys to chew here.  

The fact is that much of what is "IN" these days (Zimmer, Goldenthal,  

Portman) leaves me cold so I don't much join discussions elsewhere being  

sure to be thought benighted. The fact is Williams' music is what I love (I  

couldn't also do without his more serious works). I also, on occasion, buy  

scores by other composers; I have some James Horner's (LotF,  

Braveheart, ...), Jerry Goldsmith's (Omen, Basic Instinct,...), Danny  

Elfman (Batman I, Black Beauty,...) and especially Miklós Rózsa stuff too.  

But it's all so costly for me. In the country I live in the CDs costs are set  

too high plus scores are hard to find.

Why don't you get some more old stuff like Herrmann and North?

Morn - Who can think of no one who could be the successor of Williams

[Hlao-roo 389]

Geez, is Dinko trying to join all the film music message boards ever created?

Anyway, Dinko, most of us are just disappointed because we wanted a Williams score. Sure, we should be thankful with the approx. 40 min., but we're greedy, what can we say? ; )

And, of course, there's that Oscar issue I raised that no one else (understandably) cares about...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I was watching Air Force One the other day trying to decide which music in the film was done by which composer.  It's a difficult task, but I think some of the music doesn't sound as tense as Goldsmith would have composed it, so I assumed those action parts were scored by McNeely, who did a good job on that score.

~Harry

Harry, what music cues did you think were composed by McNeely...for what scenes.

I happen to hsave the 8 cues he composed for AFO, and they are very good, very close to Goldsmith's music.

Stefancos- who considers the fim a guilty pleasure.

[Harry Potter 0]

Oh geeze! I can't remember the scenes! I guess I'll have to watch the movie again sometime and get back with you.

~Harry

[Eplicon 53]

It seems to be a time constraint issue to me. Either that or Williams doesn't have the same vitality he does at 70. After doing two big scores this year, wouldn't you also be a little winded?

The under-used William Ross is a talented composer in his own right and has orchestrated for many A-list composers. So I don't have much of a problem with him developing or fleshing out the next HP score. I doubt if he didn't have any credentials of note, Williams wouldn't have used him in the first place.

[Harry Potter 0]

How about David Arnold???

NO!!! HE can not be or film music is screwed! 8O He's quite fun... but definately not great and not a replacement for Williams. I have some problems with him.

Hey! Just because you "have problems" with David Arnold doesn't me he's not a good composer, or worthy of Williams giving him a try. I'm sure there are many others who think his music is great.

~Harry

[Morn 8]

I don't think he's a good enough composer to walk in Williams shoes

[Dinko 0]

Geez, is Dinko trying to join all the film music message boards ever created?

Nah. There's still one or two I haven't joined.

But if you want an explanation as to my multiple board presence, it's easy: various boards offer various perspectives. Just like groups of friends in real life, it seems that online communities tend to organize on the basis of common values, perspectives, opinions... even when the basics are supposed to be the same ("film music" in this case). Some people, such as myself, don't feel they belong to any particular message board community: not to the angry psychos at FSM; not to the modern fanboys of Filmtracks; nor to the Big T fanatics of FILMUS; nor to places dedicated to the cult of a particular personality (dare I say JWFan?). So we jump from place, like online drifters with no allegiance to any community.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

All other boards suck.

Stefancos- who considers this his home.

[Morn 8]

Stefan! :evil:

[Guest]

I agree with him Morn

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

That was me

[Gamecube 0]

:idea: Maybe Ross was tired of Williams getting all the glory, so he bribed them into it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,218]

All other boards suck.

MM.com doesn't.

Marian - who wonders why Dinko didn't mention it.

[Dinko 0]

Marian - who wonders why Dinko didn't mention it.

1) Didn't want to bash it. I kind of like that place more than the rest.

2) Couldn't name all of them.

[ocelot 508]

What people are failing to point out and sorry, but I am upset right now is that Williams composes classicaly. His orchestrations are unparalleled and he is the LAST of the great old school composers. All the others you guys are mentioning are fine doing film music, but they sound generic. It's all deneric film music. You don't hear a score by these composers and have bassoons up high on a melody and every brass heard seperately and every instrument in the orchestra shining left right and center. Only Williams does that. He writes like a classical composer, the only one out there that does so. When you hear brass from the others, it's just that BRASS, loud and overbearing. There's no subtleties in their writing. SOmetimes it's like, oh look, here's 6 horns blasting away withohut the other brass but that's about it. With Williams, it's tuba, bass trombone, trombones unison, trumpets and trombones, horns, horns and trumpets... every combination imaginable to create different pallets and solos from all of the above, the same goes for his woodwind writing, and his string writing is far above any other composer out there especially his frasing and the textures. Nowadays his percuission writing has reached a complexity that I have not heard from anyone else. No, no one else can replace him and I'm saying this as a composer, as an oboe and english horn player, as someone who studied classical music all my life and it was my major and minor and otherwise, and as a listner and fan. No one. Anyone who tackles Harry Potter has a huge obstacle in front of them. A comparison that is unatainable by all of the composers out there. When it comes to adventure scoring, no one else can even reach half of what John is able to do. Don Davis? Don is a good composer, but his Jurrasic Park score suffered from exactly what I'm talking about. It's big, it's brash, but it has no memorable themes, no subtleties, no clear cut orchestrations, and no playfulness. It's just one thing, BIG. It's the biggest mistake composers out there do when tackling an adventure score, they think it should be big and it just ends up being boring by the end. It should be everything, from sad, to happy, to playful, to big, to small and it should take you on the adventure. That's what John does and it's the one thing none of the others do. There is a reason that Spielberg says that John basically writes the film with his music. The same mistake was made by Shore in LOTR not to mention the mummy scores. They are all like one wave of HUGE SOUND. No subtleties, no emotion, no playfulness like in the indiana Jones music, no bravado like in Star Wars, no "wonder". That's it. It's that sense of wonder that John captures every time. Magic.

[Harry Potter 0]

I don't think he's a good enough composer to walk in Williams shoes

Well, he's only done a few scores, and they all have primarily been action oriented. Maybe he will be getting some different assignments in the future.

~Harry

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

What people are failing to point out and sorry, but I am upset right now is that Williams composes classicaly.  His orchestrations are unparalleled and he is the LAST of the great old school composers.  All the others you guys are mentioning are fine doing film music, but they sound generic.  It's all deneric film music.  You don't hear a score by these composers and have bassoons up high on a melody and every brass heard seperately and every instrument in the orchestra shining left right and center.  Only Williams does that.  He writes like a classical composer, the only one out there that does so.  When you hear brass from the others, it's just that BRASS, loud and overbearing.  There's no subtleties in their writing.  SOmetimes it's like, oh look, here's 6 horns blasting away withohut the other brass but that's about it.  With Williams, it's tuba, bass trombone, trombones unison, trumpets and trombones, horns, horns and trumpets... every combination imaginable to create different pallets and solos from all of the above, the same goes for his woodwind writing, and his string writing is far above any other composer out there especially his frasing and the textures.  Nowadays his percuission writing has reached a complexity that I have not heard from anyone else. No, no one else can replace him and I'm saying this as a composer, as an oboe and english horn player, as someone who studied classical music all my life and it was my major and minor and otherwise, and as a listner and fan.  No one.  Anyone who tackles Harry Potter has a huge obstacle in front of them.  A comparison that is unatainable by all of the composers out there.  When it comes to adventure scoring, no one else can even reach half of what John is able to do.  Don Davis?  Don is a good composer, but his Jurrasic Park score suffered from exactly what I'm talking about.  It's big, it's brash, but it has no memorable themes, no subtleties, no clear cut orchestrations, and no playfulness.  It's just one thing, BIG.  It's the biggest mistake composers out there do when tackling an adventure score, they think it should be big and it just ends up being boring by the end.  It should be everything, from sad, to happy, to playful, to big, to small and it should take you on the adventure.  That's what John does and it's the one thing none of the others do.  There is a reason that Spielberg says that John basically writes the film with his music.  The same mistake was made by Shore in LOTR not to mention the mummy scores.  They are all like one wave of HUGE SOUND.  No subtleties, no emotion, no playfulness like in the indiana Jones music, no bravado like in Star Wars, no "wonder".  That's it.  It's that sense of wonder that John captures every time.  Magic.

This nearly moved me to tears! Well done.

Ray Barnsbury

[Harry Potter 0]

Indeed, a wonderful job!

And that's why John Williams is the best composer we have and may ever have.

~Harry

[Hlao-roo 389]

His orchestrations are unparalleled and he is the LAST of the great old school composers.

Yeah, but remember that Williams has an entire legion of orchestrators to help him with very many of his scores. Don't tell me he hires all of them just to be copyists.

[Harry Potter 0]

Perhaps he does. How do we know? His one orchestrator that worked on Ep1 said he didn't have much to do because Williams did most of the orchestrations already.

~Harry

[Guest]

I only know William Ross from some very positive reviews on filmtracks.com, but in fact, I think that it`s just good Williams won`t compose the entire score for HP2. I mean, you remember how unoriginal and unsurprising the first HP score was??

Good. Then Ross will perhaps make it more original.

[Morn 8]

http://jeron.solo.net/clips/w_ross.mp3

Here be a sample of his work.

[Morn 8]

The same mistake was made by Shore in LOTR not to mention the mummy scores.  They are all like one wave of HUGE SOUND.  No subtleties, no emotion, no playfulness like in the indiana Jones music, no bravado like in Star Wars, no "wonder".  That's it.  It's that sense of wonder that John captures every time.  Magic.

I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that about LOTR. It's definately not all just huge music or action music you know.

Yeah, but remember that Williams has an entire legion of orchestrators to help him with very many of his scores. Don't tell me he hires all of them just to be copyists.

Well, most of them pretty much say all they do is copy

[Dinko 0]

What people are failing to point out and sorry, but I am upset right now is that Williams composes classicaly.  His orchestrations are unparalleled and he is the LAST of the great old school composers.  All the others you guys are mentioning are fine doing film music, but they sound generic.  It's all deneric film music.  You don't hear a score by these composers and have bassoons up high on a melody and every brass heard seperately and every instrument in the orchestra shining left right and center.  Only Williams does that.  He writes like a classical composer, the only one out there that does so.

Then may I suggest having a listen to some William Ross scores?

You'll get almost precisely that: classical composition. Not to the same level that Williams does it. But on a much greater level than "the rest". Some of Ross' musical elements behind the main melody would even be useless in their context as they provide a much deeper and more developped background setting than required by current scoring standards.

[Ren 75]

So, calm down. I agree, I don't like Williams composing music for children's movies.

WHAT THE W$(*%&)W($*%Q)#$!

Don't go there with me!

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

So, calm down. I agree, I don't like Williams composing music for children's movies.

WHAT THE W$(*%&)W($*%Q)#$!

Don't go there with me!

My thoughts exactly :evil:

I mean, you remember how unoriginal and unsurprising the first HP score was??  

Good. Then Ross will perhaps make it more original.

I'm not agreeing with how you described the first score, but even if it was so unoriginal and unsurprising, that doesn't mean it wasn't spectacular. Ross needs to go with the flow, and not try to make it too original compared the first one. There should be uniue and original elements, but it should have the overall same "sound." Like Star Wars scores are all diferent, but they are all definitely part of the same group.

Ray Barnsbury