Williams overtaken by Horner?

[batmanand 0]

I heard a rumour once that Horner had overtaken the Maestro in terms of albums sold. Is this true?

[QMM 4]

I say no but I wouldnt be that much surprised

Your title is a bit misleading since you're talking about sales

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I'm sure Celine Dion has nothing to do with this.

[Lurker 5]

I would think that Titanic is the top selling score of all time, but in terms of total album sales I would imagine that Williams is still the top selling film composer of all time. The Star Wars Trilogy albums were in the top 10 on the Billboard charts in 1997 and 2004, for instance.

Neil

[David Coscina 3]

Horner might overtake Williams with respect to soundtrack profits but he will never eclipse the master when it comes to composition. Not my opinion. Fact. :0

[christer 0]

Where I´m from, quality beats quantity anytime!

[Justin 2]

Typical Sweed.

Justin - Joking.

[John Crichton 4]

I wonder how many of those millions of copies of Titanic are even listened to anymore?

And the fact that Star Wars still sells in 1997 and 2003 shows you who the real king is.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

yes Titanic sold well, and I do listen to it today, still a great soundtrack 7 years later.

but

John has

Fiddler on the Roof

Star Wars

Close Encounters

ESB

ET

JP

SL

Star Wars Trilogy

Star Wars A New Hope 97

TPM

HPSS

AOTC

all reaching gold, or platinum or multiple.

[David Coscina 3]

In pure music terms, Star Wars is a much richer score than Titanic will ever be. In fact, to me Titanic is rubbish and was the score that finally ended my Horner collecting days. The obvious Enya lifts along with the kitchen sink approach lifting music devices from his other scores, was enough for me. Star Wars, in spite of the obvious Rite of Spring lift for the Jawas, is a great score that I'll always enjoy listening to and studying. It is a classic.

[Morn 8]

The fact that titanic sold so well is proof that popularity means nothing at all.

[David Coscina 3]

Well put Morn. I think there's an inverse relationship to good and popular at times.

[Morn 8]

Yes indeed, sometimes good is too old or too modern for the majority of people.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Mostly good is too complex for the majority of people. Unless there's a catchy theme attached to it.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

And horner makes many works per year therefore he sells more...

Quantity is not quality

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Not quite correct, Horner just makes each work many times per year and therefore he sells more

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Yeah i forgot...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

And horner makes many works per year therefore he sells more...  

Not quite correct, Horner just makes each work many times per year and therefore he sells more  

The fact that titanic sold so well is proof that popularity means nothing at all.

Well put Morn. I think there's an inverse relationship to good and popular at times.

Luke, you make a false assumption that just because Horner scores more films than John that because there are more then sales are more. This is incorrect, as is the assumption that he's written on score that he reproduces over and over.

Morn, you make a false assumption because you fail to remember what a phenomenon Titanic was, and also remember that it was a huge Critical success as well as a popular success.

FA, is correct except that doesn't apply to Titanic, it does apply to the Hulk, Armaggeddon, Grease, etc.

But you should also remember the reverse is also true at times, just because its popular doesn't mean its bad, which applys to Titanic.

[Morn 8]

Titanic doesn't deserve it's popularity, however. The main reasons for titanic's success will be the movies but probably mainly the success of the pop song. Anyway, my point is that popularity is the worst judge of quality that exist.

[ChrisAfonso 186]

Nothing against Titanic, it's a brilliant movie (except the overlong farewell scene in the water), and a very good score.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

The main reasons for titanic's success will be the movies but probably mainly the success of the pop song

I have no idea what you just said

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Morn, you make a false assumption because you fail to remember what a phenomenon Titanic was, and also remember that it was a huge Critical success as well as a popular success.

FA, is correct except that doesn't apply to Titanic, it does apply to the Hulk, Armaggeddon, Grease, etc.

But you should also remember the reverse is also true at times, just because its popular doesn't mean its bad, which applys to Titanic.

Joe is right, a bad film may ride on a hype and make 100, 200 million dollars, but NEVER the vast amount of money Titanic made.

It was a hype, but a hype supported by an good film.

Also, people seem to have forgotten that in 1997 critics were ready to shatter this film to pieces after it went waaay over budget and schedule, with horror stories coming from the set about Cameron.

Cameron came, saw and conquered!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Steef is correct.

I must say though, this used to be one of my favorite films, but I don't really watch it that often anymore. For some reason it sort of lost its magic on me.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

don't watch it again until the 4 disc set comes out this fall.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I was thinking of that too. I'm reluctant to update my DVD, even though this bare-bones non-anamorphic disc is pretty meh. I'll wait until the price of this new set drops I think. Then I'll see. I hope there'll be deleted scenes on there, though. A good amount of new footage (in the extras section; I don't think we need an alternate cut of this) would be a good selling point for me.

- Marc

[David Coscina 3]

I saw Titanic once and never re-visited it again. I've seen L.A. Confidential several times. The narrative structure, acting, set design, score, everything was great in that film. Best Picture of 1997 IMHO.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

True, L.A. Confidential should have gotten the Oscar that year.

[HornerIsTheMan 4]

Long ago, my friends...

Williams has been eclipsed.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Long ago, my friends...

Williams has been eclipsed.  

only in your sad and pitiful dreams.

Goldsmith couldn't eclipse John, Horner sure isn't.

[Sandor 797]

Well, Titanic is not as bad as many people WANT it to be (for various reasons). It's not a perfect film though. Some of the dialogue is extremely simplistic and compared to Terminator 2 or The Abyss the direction is a bit unpersonal.

Still; James Cameron is easily one of my favorite filmmakers. To see Titanic become the triumph that it became makes me happy for the man.

Stefan is right: Titanic was plagued by bad omens before it was released. It seemed the critics (after hearing the reports about all the controversy that went into the film - going over budget and all) also WANTED Titanic to sink.

I remember actively following Titanic's box office performance. I was dissapointed by the opening weekend gross: around $30 million. I remember thinking: "Oh no! This film will NEVER make any profit!". But then something amazing happened: Titanic proved to have very long legs. The film earned around 25 million for WEEKS! It's endurance was amazing! It reminded me of the first Star Wars film, which also didn't open in Spiderman-style, but run succesfully for months.

Part of Titanic's strength was it appeal to a very wide audience. The conception that only 14 year old girls embraced the film was completely shattered when I saw it in the theatre. I was sitting alongside families, the elderly, children, boys, girls, homosexuels, heterosexuels,... EVERYONE wanted to see this film! And not just once: TWICE!

Oh, and Stefan: L.A. Confidential should have won? I don't know. Sure Pulp Fiction should have won back in 1995 or The Fellowship Of The Ring in 2002, but L.A. Confidential? I don't think so.

Titanic is not a perfect film, like I said, but it was a perfect succes-story. Against many odds James Cameron won. In a sense it was the Star Wars of a new generation.

And about the score: yes the Enya lifts are irritating, but for some people Williams' score for Star Wars inflamed the same kind of disregard. A rip-off of Korngold's Kings Row? Yes and no. The same applies to Horner's score for me. Sometimes I play some of Titanic's Theme on the piano. When people hear it they always silence and listen. Face it guys: the themes HAVE become modern classics. Titanic brought film music to the foreground again and just listen to the album: it's nowhere near as bad as some make it sound.

[Lurker 5]

Oh, and Stefan: L.A. Confidential should have won? I don't know. Sure Pulp Fiction should have won back in 1995 or The Fellowship Of The Ring in 2002, but L.A. Confidential? I don't think so.

Yes Roald, L.A. Confidential was the best film of 1997. As entertaining as Titanic is, L.A. Confidential truly has the mark of greatness about it.

Neil

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I still have to see L.A. Confidential.

And Titanic was the first soundtrack I ever got a copy of. I later actually bought the CD along with Jurassic Park, but I'd had it on tape for over a year or something before that.

- Marc

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Yes Roald, L.A. Confidential was the best film of 1997. As entertaining as Titanic is, L.A. Confidential truly has the mark of greatness about it.  

because Gladiator guy was in it, it has the mark of the beast about it, it's not the best film of 97, its just another silly cop movie.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Just in case I was misunderstood, i have nothing against the Titanic score, except the synth Choral parts. Its good anyway.

[Lurker 5]

Yes Roald, L.A. Confidential was the best film of 1997. As entertaining as Titanic is, L.A. Confidential truly has the mark of greatness about it.  

because Gladiator guy was in it, it has the mark of the beast about it, it's not the best film of 97, its just another silly cop movie.

Right, and there is nothing silly in Titanic. Not even Billy Zane's simple, one-dimensional villain who doesn't do a single good thing in the entire film. He's evil just for evil's sake. I'll take the much more varied and interesting characters in L.A. Confidential any day of the week.

Neil - who does not find L.A. Confidential silly in any way.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Neil, its a cop movie,

I can watch a one hour episode of Law and Order and see a greater example of talent.

Joe, whose least favorite genre of film is mob and cop films. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Lurker 5]

Neil, its a cop movie

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

Neil

[Danielle 0]

L.A Confidential - One of the greatest films of recent years.

Titanic - The most expensive soap opera ever made.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

To talk about the "greatness" of Titanic and the "silliness" of L.A. Confidential isn't that different from praising Saturday Night Live over the Marx Brothers.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

depends Ross, are we talking about the Not Ready for Prime Time Players, in which case its easy to praise them over the Marx Brothers,

and Neil,

you quoted a film that I dare say we both agree it better than either Titanic, or LA Confidential.

Are we going to Addis Abbaba?

[tpigeon 3]

Just about every genre in film is capable of greatness. The best example of great art in a "simple" genre would be Alfred Hitchcock and the many masterpieces he has made with seemingly simple ideas and plots of murder and mystery. That is the beauty of film. You can make a great movie out of anything - another example is one of the greatest movies ever made, The Bicycle Thief. Yes, it could have been just a ninety minute movie about a man who's bike is stolen, but it's about so much more. I'm not trying to claim that LA Confidential is a profoundly deep film, but that doesn't mean't it's not a great film. Because it is, and I feel it is the best film of 1997 as well as one of the best to come out of the 90's.

"A movie is not about what it is about, but how it is about it."

Ted

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Nothing against Titanic, it's a brilliant movie (except the overlong farewell scene in the water), and a very good score.

It's a fun movie, I wouldn't say brilliant. The acting is way too hokey for that. A lot of fun though. However the score with all it's pseudo-Irish pretension just makes me want to puke. Then My Heart Will Go On comes along, and I do.

[Sandor 797]

No, Titanic is not a brilliant film looking at it's script and direction (somewhat cold for James Cameron). BUT in a way it IS brilliant; Cameron made a film for everyone! Like I said before the main reason for it's gigantic succes was it's appeal to an extremely wide range of people. I'm sure Cameron delibaretly made the film that way. Many have tried that before, but so many have failed. Cameron did it.

[Morn 8]

I meant, I'm sure a large part of the scores success was the pop song, rather than the movie.

[Sandor 797]

I meant, I'm sure a large part of the scores success was the pop song, rather than the movie.

I knew a lot of girls at that time who were like 14, 15 years old (don't get any weird ideas there ok?). They all had the soundtrack. They always mentioned that they DID NOT buy the CD for the song, but they listened to the SCORE, in their rooms, remembering the film, dreaming of making out with Leo, and all.

[Morn 8]

But the pop song would have made the soundtrack a lot more visible, it's great marketing.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I definitely bought the OST to hear the score. In fact, I usually skip the song (why did they not just put it at the very end?).

[John McClane 1]

I'm sure Celine Dion has nothing to do with this.

Yes she has! Without her song, the OST would have sold a lot less.

Long ago, my friends...

Williams has been eclipsed.  

only in your sad and pitiful dreams.

Goldsmith couldn't eclipse John, Horner sure isn't.

Intelligent words. How dare you compare Horner to Williams!

Titanic - The most expensive soap opera ever made.

Shorter movie review ever!

I agree with Marc when he say he doesn't enjoy Titanic that much anymore. I was 14 in 1997, so probably that's why I enjoyed it. It's a good movie, but something like a kid-movie, with adolescent girls watching it because "uuhh, Leo is sooo beautiful!".

I liked Titanic, then I grow up. It's still a good movie, but I reluctant in starting watching that kind of 3 hours movie. I prefer watch 2 one-and-a-half movies instead.

However the score with all it's pseudo-Irish pretension just makes me want to puke. Then My Heart Will Go On comes along, and I do.

I actually like the song, but it has been played too much by radios and TV. Also, it can fits in the end credits, but I don't like that much songs in movies, and in the OST the song should have be put as the very last track.

[Jacck 23]

I felt that the Titanic Score was VERY average -- It was OK, Had some nice moments, Some interesting parts -- Nice orchestration in places, But Mainly a very plain, simple score. It isn't Oscar Material in my opinion, and simply doesn't compare to the standards of John Williams. Also, the OST wouldn't of sold very well if it wasn't for Celine Dion.

[David Coscina 3]

Neil, its a cop movie

"Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe."

Neil

Right on Neil!!!!!