I'm listening to the first track of ROTS

[Lurker 5]

And by the way, I don't know if anyone is still paying any attention to the thread at MF.com, but we've been referred to by the same person over there as "anal" and "the kids at JWFan.net".  :roll:

Clearly it's not worth paying attention to.

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Imperial March stuff in 'Obi-Wan vs. Anakin' was pretty powerful stuff but not in it's 'march' form; it staggered as in TESB.

What, then, is the most 'kick ass' version of The Imperial March from the entire series in everyone's opinion? I don't know how JW would have gone about topping his version at the end of AOTC.

Best versions are in TESB.

The Duel, the original Aboard the Executor, the opening of The Asteroid Field, Carbon Freeze...etc..etc

plenty of kickass versions there.

AOTC's rendition is good, but not up to par.

[John Crichton 4]

I'm assuming this is part of the chrono. order:

Star Wars & the Revenge of the Sith

Anakin's Dream

Palpatine's Teachings

Anakin's Betrayal

Anakin's Dark Deeds

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan

The Immolation Scene

Enter Lord Vader & Padme's Destiny

Birth of the Twins

Those of you familiar with the script/plot, any idea where the other tracks fill in? (obviously best guess)

Don't forget that there's probably multiple cues mixed into the same track, plus some tracks might have titles that have nothing to do with the music that's in them. There's really no point in trying to figure out a definitive chrono order until we've seen the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed, TPM was a horrible mish-mash and AOTC was not that much better.

[bondo 33]

You're absolutely right, I just wanted to figure out an order that matches the film as close as possible. It's quite strange to hear "Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious" near the finale.

[John Crichton 4]

AOTC was actually pretty good by Williams' OST editing standards. Only about half the tracks had multiple cues and it was mostly chronological, especially the second half. But yes, TPM was a mess and a half.

It's quite strange to hear "Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious" near the finale.

True. I put the Fox Fanfare at the start of my disc, and I'm thinking of burning a new one with Battle of the Heroes as the track after the Main Title since that's where the new theme concert pieces usually go.

[Morlock 11]

Best versions are in TESB.

The Duel, the original Aboard the Executor, the opening of The Asteroid Field, Carbon Freeze...etc..etc

plenty of kickass versions there.

AOTC's rendition is good, but not up to par.

I disagree. IMO it's as good as any version out there, and it's power in the film is matched only by it's use for The Emperor's arrival in RoTJ. I still cannot bash every single aspect of AoTC because of that, it is as breathtaking as any moment in the series.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

 I disagree. IMO it's as good as any version out there, and it's power in the film is matched only by it's use for The Emperor's arrival in RoTJ. I still cannot bash every single aspect of AoTC because of that, it is as breathtaking as any moment in the series.

I said it was good, but I it's a last minute replacement and really should not be in that film.

It's possible that the bext rendition of The Emperial March in recent memory was composed by Joel McNeely....

Though i'm hoping Williams will give it a spin or 2 in ROTS.

[scissorhands 16]

PROBABLY - THE - BEST - SYMPHONIC - WORK - OF - THE - 21ST - CENTURY

Simple as that.

scissorhands, crying for happiness

obviously, Revenge of the Sith by master, genius, John Williams

[APBez 11]

Best versions are in TESB.

The Duel, the original Aboard the Executor, the opening of The Asteroid Field, Carbon Freeze...etc..etc

plenty of kickass versions there.

AOTC's rendition is good, but not up to par.

I disagree. IMO it's as good as any version out there, and it's power in the film is matched only by it's use for The Emperor's arrival in RoTJ. I still cannot bash every single aspect of AoTC because of that, it is as breathtaking as any moment in the series.

I don't think the AOTC's version was nearly as powerful in the film as it should have been. The spaceships dominated the film's soundtrack unfortunately.

[Morlock 11]

That end title is dreadful.  Lousy performance and music that has no place in this film.  Why couldn't we finally get Anakin's Theme turning into The Imperial March (Darth Vader's Theme)?  How much more apporopriate would that have been?

I don't like the end titles.  It's a tired, dull performance, much like The Skywalker Symphony (I even got an e-mail from a friend regarding this cue asking, "Who let the Skywalker Symphony in?").  Why don't you do what I did. Listen to the ROTS end title then play "The Throne Room / End Title" from Star Wars.  Then you'll hear how "The Throne Room" and the ending of that piece should really sound.  There is no comparison.

And that music has no place in this movie.  ROTS should end on a downer, since this is the rise of ultimate evil.  Instead, we get a triumphant march.  What is that about? It goes against the story and instead celebrates the end of the series.  That's not serving the film and is wrong.

The End Credits are a huge disappointment.  The orchestra sounds thoroughly bored in the opening rebel fanfare/Luke's theme section, and the rest of the thematic material (aside from Battle of the Heroes) has no relevance to this film.  The appearance of the lackluster concert arrangement of The Throne Room only serves to cheapen it's appearance in the next film (if you're watching them in that order).

All this basicaly sums up my feelings about the End Credits.

I'm sure that BotH vs. DotF is going to be a major debate over the coming months/years. In my opinion, I think the new theme is a stroke of genius. The Anakin/Obi-Wan duel is not just holding the fate of the galaxy in the balance, it is an intensely personal enocounter. The pupil who betrayed his master, and in his turn feels betrayed. DotF is a huge epic theme for the Jedi vs. the Sith, but BotH, while having its own epic quality, also has a greater degree of intimacy and feels a little more personal. Williams, I think, decided to focus on the deep personal nature of the Big Duel, and the results are most satisfying.

I think it's strangely more personal, yet bigger, at the same time. Very fitting, IMO. Overall I love DoTF much more than BoTH, but IMO BoTH really fits my imagination of the duel. DoTF fits the more exciting, but also less critical fight from TPM, while BoTH fits the more emotional and the crucial fight in RoTS (hoping it's as good as I think it will be).

Very reminiscent of "The Epilogue" from the album version of The Fury.

That ain't a bad thing. (As I told you...) It reminds me of The Epilogue from The Fury (surely one of JW's best pieces ever), of Dracula, and of the Immolition scene from Schindler's List. IMO it's one great track.

Where can I get this bonus track afterall, are you all just pulling our legs?

I'm afraid leg pulling was involved.

Track 7 is the "Anderton's Great Escape" of this album.  It represents everything that's wrong with John Williams's action writing today.

While I agree about track 7 being a low point of the album, "Anderton's Great Escape" is a great track. I'm still not sure why people have sucha big problem with this track.

Ironically, many people looove Anderton's Great Escape.

Logically, not ironically.

And to answer the question that everyone's been asking for weeks, I feel confident that Anakin's Betrayal (Track 4) is indeed Lament.

Doug Adams said that Lamet is actually Qui Gon's funeral music, expanded upon, so I guess that must be it (obviously from 2:52 on it is).

Franz, I think it's safe to say all of us on this board will be BUYING the official soundtrack when it's release a couple weeks from now.  

And I have a hard time taking morality lessons from someone who uses Amon Goeth as their avatar.

A big yes to both paragraphs.

Padme's Ruminations sounds like it should be in Gladiator.

I think this moaning lady is actually one of the best ones yet. With this and Anne Lively, IMO JW has shown that he even when he's giving in to these cliches, he still does something interesting with it. I love the ethereal quality to it, and the snippet of the love theme. But, I do agree, it's not Star Warsy at all. The Second half of the cue is, though.

Current high points, after the initial listen:

General Grievous, Battle of The Heroes, Anakin's Dark Deeds, Enter Lord Vader, The Immolition Scene, Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious (that clip really helped this one grow on me).

I was rather taken aback when I realized I really, really liked the Across The Stars in Anakin's Dream. The violin is quite beautiful, the first minute and a quarter of that track are also one of the highlights.

Actually, listening to it again, the whole track is good. I really like ATS here (something I thought would NEVER happen). I remember getting AoTC 3 years ago, it was the first new JW score I bought with the rest of the world, and being so dissapointed by ATS, which sounded (and still does) so much like Hook.

One point: I wish to god JW would stop using the woodwinds+xylophone effect in his action cues. I can't stand it any more. It worked well for the chase in AoTC, and fit like a glove in Minority Report, but I'm so tired of it. It immidiately took me out of hte Star Wars mind set, which took several seconds to regain.

Overall: I'm very, very happy with this score. I hope as much good stuff is waiting for us off the CD as was with TPM.

[Lurker 5]

Where can I get this bonus track afterall, are you all just pulling our legs?

I'm afraid leg pulling was involved.

Yes, but it really fooled some people. Joe and Steef should be really proud.

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I am very proud, even after my ROTS WILL DISSAPOINT post I still have credibility left.

Suckers!

[Saxman717 22]

I am very proud, even after my ROTS WILL DISSAPOINT post I still have credibility left.

Suckers!

Wish it weren't true, but you're right

[John Crichton 4]

I am very proud, even after my ROTS WILL DISSAPOINT post I still have credibility left.

Suckers!

Wish it weren't true, but you're right

Yes, I wish he had no credibility too.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well it's not like i'm not trying.....

[John Crichton 4]

Doug Adams said that Lamet is actually Qui Gon's funeral music, expanded upon, so I guess that must be it (obviously from 2:52 on it is).

Actually he's wrong there. The score reports, and Lament was on the one that the London Voices member wrote for us, said that it was a sweeping, wordless choral piece. If you listen to Anakin's Betrayal and read the descriptions of Lament in the reports, they match pretty well.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not THAT happy about the Qui-Gon funeral music being rehashed.

Once is fine, but then they give it another...identical rendition.

[Lurker 5]

Not THAT happy about the Qui-Gon funeral music being rehashed.

Once is fine, but then they give it another...identical rendition.

Steef, that's not Qui-Gon Funeral Music, it's Prequel Trilogy Funeral Music!

Neil

[Morlock 11]

Yeah, the one in trak 13 is a bit dissapointing, but I like the version with the wordlesss choir in track 4 a lot.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Whatever Bulk.

Re-using music like he has done in these tracks does not work, it draws unwanted attention to itself, and possibly unfavorable comparisons.

I do not think that there is a single time in the original trilogy were Williams reuses a segment of music note for not in (almost) the exact same arrangement, save the main and end credit music.

[Lurker 5]

I do not think that there is a single time in the original trilogy were Williams reuses a segment of music note for not in (almost) the exact same arrangement, save the main and end credit music.

He did in Return of the Jedi.

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Were?

Stefancos- up too late and suffing the consequences....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh yeah, Superstructor chase.

well that never really worked either, hence proving my point.

[scissorhands 16]

What was John Williams thinking about... for that long ritenuto in the end of the last track!?

I loved the "Throne Room" concert version finally ended up somehow in the hexalogy (or saga or whatever). Anyway, it might not be the film version of the end credits, beware.

I always thought Williams would use "Leia and Luke's theme", instead of "Leia's theme" and "Luke's theme" separately. But it's cool.

So "Return of the Jedi" is the only film of the saga which doesn't have a thematical representation in the score (save the "Throne Room"-like ending), at least in the 70 minutes we've heard.

[Adam 1]

Emperor's Theme is in there one time and probably more in the total score.

[scissorhands 16]

What was John Williams thinking about... for that long ritenuto in the end of the last track!?  .

"Johnny! These are the last seconds you're going to conduct for a "Star Wars" movie! Enjoy this moment! Just hold up the batton for some seconds!"

Without any doubt, this score will become a CLASSIC.

[scissorhands 16]

Emperor's Theme is in there one time and probably more in the total score.

Yeah! THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION!

[Lurker 5]

What was John Williams thinking about...

Weesa free!

Neil

[ymenard 54]

It's like THE LOST WORLD, but with less percusions and much more urgency. I mean there's urgency throughout the score like never before in a Williams score. Has Williams scored any tense action like this?

[Morlock 11]

Where is the Emperor's theme? I seem to have missed it.

[Lurker 5]

It's at the end of "Enter Lord Vader".

Neil

[scissorhands 16]

What was John Williams thinking about...

Weesa free!

I think he does really enjoy scoring for these films. But maybe the big responsability he's always taken charge of is enough to feel relieved now.

It's like THE LOST WORLD, but with less percusions and much more urgency.

Yep, I also noticed some resemblance between both works. But still very different

[Adam 1]

EDIT : Never mind, somebody's on top of it

[King Mark 3,631]

Doug Adams said that Lamet is actually Qui Gon's funeral music, expanded upon, so I guess that must be it (obviously from 2:52 on it is).

Actually he's wrong there. The score reports, and Lament was on the one that the London Voices member wrote for us, said that it was a sweeping, wordless choral piece. If you listen to Anakin's Betrayal and read the descriptions of Lament in the reports, they match pretty well.

I'm pretty sure Lament is Track 4(Anakin's Betrayal)

K.M.

[MontyBurns 0]

I'm assuming this is part of the chrono. order:  

Star Wars & the Revenge of the Sith  

Anakin's Dream  

Palpatine's Teachings  

Anakin's Betrayal  

Anakin's Dark Deeds  

Anakin vs. Obi-Wan  

The Immolation Scene  

Enter Lord Vader & Padme's Destiny  

Birth of the Twins  

Those of you familiar with the script/plot, any idea where the other tracks fill in? (obviously best guess)

As far as the chronological order of cues goes, ?Enter Lord Vader? is actually one I am having the most difficulty in placing. I?m not at all certain this is from toward the end mind you. There?s too much action going on in the cue and I?ve had some spoiler obsessed friends indulge me in the general structure of events in the film so I could try and work out the order a little better. The safest bet I?d wager is to place it toward the end of the second act of the movie, but that's a rather vague thing for me to suggest since it is difficult to place other cues from that section in place too.

You can use the scoring session sheet to get a slightly better sense of where things go chronologically as well, though in some cases you have to assume the title of a cue on an album might be the same cue on the session sheet. For example, 2M5 - Grievous Travels to Palpatine which I think we can safely say is the same as ?Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious? (especially since it retained that original title on the initial album tracklisting) should probably come after 'Star Wars/Revenge of the Sith?. It precedes 2M6 ? Scenes and Dream which is ?Anakin?s Dream? perhaps? Who knows. Again some assumption work is needed, abut if history teaches us anything it?s that assuming things is not always the safest option.

As John says it?s really rather early to make sense of the actual order things belong. Leave it until the 19th to figure it out amongst the outcries for unreleased material many will want upon leaving the theatre.

Don't forget that there's probably multiple cues mixed into the same track, plus some tracks might have titles that have nothing to do with the music that's in them.

I may have stumbled upon such an example (of sorts)...

I?m none too convinced that ?The Birth Of The Twins and Padme's Destiny? is in fact ?The Birth of the Twins? at all since the recording session description of this scene bears no resemblance to what you hear at the start of track fourteen. A casual glance at the session sheet would perhaps suggest this is actually 7M5 ? 'Plans for the Twins? followed by 7M6 which is on the sheet ?Padme?s Destiny? albeit under a different name.

---The following, as taken from JWFan.coms page on the Episode 3 score, describes the editorial structure of the Birth of the Twins scene in the film along with the music for the scene itself, but the event happening is not really a spoiler of course. Nevertheless I'm covering myself with a minor warning. I'm sure George has re-edited the scene a dozen times since. ---

Birth of the Twins ? 7m3 "As babies are handed to people, in another location ?the helmet? descends onto Anakin?s face, to just one chord (minor of course) which builds from p to a deafening fff and back down again." There is a soft statement of Luke's Theme when he is born, followed by the Force Theme. Tears reportedly flowed when this cue was played.

[Foxfan 128]

Well, after listening to tracks 1, 2, 3, and 15, I have to say that I am a bit upset that there doesn't seem to be a stand-alone concert piece in this. :cry: Battle of Heroes is a pain to listen to since I have the impression it keeps changing meter and tempo. It has no sense of continuity. Other problems I had with the recordings so far include the "throne room" being too slow, and the drumroll going WAY too long (4 seconds!) before the second-last chord in the finale.

On the plus side, I love all the versions of The Force Theme. At least they full thing was played, unlike those annoying "teases" in TPM and AOTC (where the full thing was only played once in each).

[SturgisPodmore 0]

What, then, is the most 'kick ass' version of The Imperial March from the entire series in everyone's opinion? I don't know how JW would have gone about topping his version at the end of AOTC.

Indeed. It sounds like pure, dry evil.

~Sturgis

[Lurker 5]

What, then, is the most 'kick ass' version of The Imperial March from the entire series in everyone's opinion?

I can't speak for everyone, but I know I have to go with "Aboard the Executor".

Neil

[scissorhands 16]

and the drumroll going WAY too long (4 seconds!) before the second-last chord in the finale.

Yes, that's what I talked about above. I find it pretty funny

I liked how the woodwinds play the last rendition of the rebel fanfare, by the way.

[King Mark 3,631]

So Mark the score you waited all these years for is out there.

Are you happy with the Anakin versus Obi-Wan stuff?

I've listened to all of it,but I'm not sure what to really make of this album yet...

K.M.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

On first impression, my favorite tracks are: Anakin's Dream, Battle of the Heros, Palpatine's Teachings, Anakin's Dark Deeds, Grievous Speaks to Lord Sidious, and A New Hope and End Credits.

~Sturgis, who LOVES the last notes of the Star Wars saga!!!!

[Lurker 5]

Sturgis, who LOVES the last notes of the Star Wars saga!!!!

Yes, it is the same in ROTS and ROTJ, isn't it?

Neil

[tpigeon 3]

What an amazing soundtrack. I'll have more thoughts later, but right now I'd just like to mention that Battle of the Heroes is an amazing piece of music. I like it more each time I hear it. I like to think of it as Duel of the Fates meets the Dark Side Beckons with a touch of the Force.

Ted

[Adam 1]

Yeah, I'm liking it more and more, too. It has something in the melody and rhythm that is a little bit disjointed but it kind of sneaks up on you that way. It makes it feel like the rapid fire action is going on underneath with the orchestra and the emotion (choir) rises above it with a mind of its own. And, again, he throws in that very brief but exciting, swashbuckling secondary theme that is balletic, if that?s the right word. Very dramatic but kind of fun, too. Its a great example of JW?s ability to describe the the story in a way you almost don?t need the visuals.

- Adam

[John Crichton 4]

What, then, is the most 'kick ass' version of The Imperial March from the entire series in everyone's opinion?

I can't speak for everyone, but I know I have to go with "Aboard the Executor".

That one's good, but I've always been partial towards The Emperor's Arrival in RoJ for pure power, and the statement at the end of Episode II comes real close.

And for evil creepiness, the statement in Emperor's Throne Room in RoJ when Vader is bringing Luke before the Emperor for the first time. It's the choral backing that does it, it sounds like a death march.

John- who's been humming Battle of the Heroes all day

[mahler3 478]

Listening to it for the second time now, upon its first listen what was of particular merit is the mix - I know there are some Shawn Murphy bashers here - but the orchestral mix is simply stunning! Timpani especially is well positioned and the brass are beautifully crisp.

Presentation: Whilst we know that the structure of some of the cues will be very different when we see the film, the coherance is not as bad as some have made out - Williams knows what he's doing, he's been giving us carefully thought out album presentations for decades now.

Anyway, most importantly the music! It is growing on me more now, left me slightly cold initially but certainly the highlights can be found within Star Wars & the Revenge of the Sith, Anakin's Dream, Anakin's Betrayal, General Grevious, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan and the Immolation Scene. Battle of the Heroes hasn't grabbed me yet. The End Credits opens wonderfully with Leia's theme and segues into a delicate rendition of Luke's Theme, then the Force Theme with gorgeous solo French horn building with strings - but I have to say it seemed a down climax when the Rebel Fanfare credit crawl launched which means this could be different in the film? But then again probably not.

The oft-mentioned end credit performance certainly isn't as poor as the Skywalker Symphony's but yes it does lack the immediate punch of, say ROTJ's which is a shame. I wouldn't call the Throne Room section lacklustre as I always favoured the concert arrangement, it lets the Elgarian melody sing and build as opposed to its rushed ANH Finale - the only detriment I would say is that during the final few bars of the Throne Room with strings and trumpet the snare drum is mixed too low, but that's minor. I also think that a gong with tam tam should have been used just before the closing statement as the snare drum rolling alone to the crescendo was lacking compared to some other recordings, but again that's nit picking!

I think overall this score will grow on me more, especially when I am able to play it through the proper speaker set up as opposed to headphones (it's nearly 5am over here!)

- Tim.

[John Crichton 4]

Listening to it for the second time now, upon its first listen what was of particular merit is the mix - I know there are some Shawn Murphy bashers here - but the orchestral mix is simply stunning! Timpani especially is well positioned and the brass are beautifully crisp.

Yes, I noticed that too. Even with the lower quality MP3s we have you can tell it's definatley a better mix than Episode II. It continues the positive trend that Murphy started with Prisoner of Azkaban. Maybe he finally started listening to us.

[krosstj 0]

Lucas is going to arrest you all, you realize this? I mean I might be a conspiracy theoriest, but I think this is a set up and you are all being tracked, I hope not, but be careful, you can all go to jail for this.

[Bowie 45]

Well if I go to jail, then I won't be able to purchase the soundtrack, tickets to the film, and various other memorabilia, and obviously then none of my friends will. So they'd have to sue me for a nice hefty amount to make it worth their while..... D'oh!