*The Official Episode III Film Review Thread*

[Justin 2]

Yeah and have in mind that the evil ones are the separatits leaders, the people they represent may well believe in their idelas of try to change the republic. They are deceived, but still good people could be there...

I'm sure the Nazi's could have made the same argument. I still believe that the sentence is inane.

Neil

Well, if you put it that way...

EDIT: One moment. They did. They are still the badguys for the rest of the world, but not from their point of view.

Example: Isnt Darth Vader a hero of the Empire?... (from the empire's point of view, of course.)

But anyway hero should have been used just for the goodguys.

Well from my point of view all this point of view stuff is getting really stupid.

Justin

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.....cgi?u=episode3

[Lurker 5]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.....cgi?u=episode3

Ditto.

Neil

[diskobolus 3]

You people really don't know how to read. Jedis is spelled wrong. And the other 5 Star Wars movies sucked?

[Jacck 23]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.....cgi?u=episode3

ZZOMMMMGGGGSEXLMFAOROFLWTFOMFGLOLBBQ!!!!111oneoneoneoneoneoneone

LOL

that was good

[Henry B 50]

Ahhhh, I love Maddox.

Oh really? It just so happens that this "children's movie" has a scene where a guy gets his hands chopped off, a graphic decapitation, the wanton slaughter of children (the highlight of any movie), and the coolest scene in any space action movie starring Ewan McGregor: Anakin getting his legs chopped off as his stumps catch fire while his face melts. By the way, if you haven't seen this movie yet, don't read the previous sentence.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

LOL I've read a lot of the stuff on that site, pretty funny stuff.

Ray Barnsbury

[A24 4,335]

Maybe but...

Perhaps the question I should be asking is "why didn't you like the other two movies if you liked this one?" Nothing has changed.

... that's very incorrect. Episode III is an improvement on several levels. If you don't see that then you should stick to "films" like National Treasure (or, Van Helsing, Battlefield Earth, take your choice).

----------------

Alex Cremers

[publicist 4,643]

Since it seems to be a hot topic lately

Without hesitation i admit that a lot of movies nowadays, and this especially, suck for a simple reason: they're undertaxing my intelligence. Now, a lot may scream 'well, they're intended for kids!', but that doesn't make my enjoyment any bigger....

The 'dramatic' antics i was forced to endure troughout 'RotS' were strictly of the kindergarten variety. What exactly gets you people so horny about this i don't know...but:

there are so many complaints about Anakins sudden change of mind, but rarely about the infantile seduction scenes by the emperor. How old is Anakin? 5? 'The Jedi are bad, i'm good, join me!'...'OK'...sorry, but that's screenwriting on the 'Transformers - The Animated Series' scale.

I figure these films were never intended for grownups, but has it really to be that simple? Most of 'Star Wars' audience is older than 10 years, anyway, so why make films for 7-year olds?

Apart from that, whenever a supposed 'love scene' reared it's ugly head, i felt the urgent need to leave the theatre...bad high school play...

For all it's worth, all i took away from the whole enterprise (no pun intended) is the fact that George Lucas is in desperate need of this kid yelling 'The emperor wears no clothes' to remind him that multi-million $ BO doesn't equal artistic ability.

[A24 4,335]

 'The Jedi are bad, i'm good, join me!'...'OK'...sorry, but that's screenwriting on the 'Transformers - The Animated Series' scale.

I didn't happen THAT fast.

I figure these films were never intended for grownups, but has it really to be that simple? Most of 'Star Wars' audience is older than 10 years, anyway, so why make films for 7-year olds?

Because 7-year olds want to have Star Wars toys.

[publicist 4,643]

I didn't happen THAT fast.

That's not the point. He is 'seduced' throughout the first half of the movie in a way that seems too infantile for a grown man over 20. I would expect a 10-year-old to go for it...albeit not a clever one...

But all of this stuff reeks of 'because the screen writer wants it that way!' and not like some clever plot to overthrow a whole democrazy!

[A24 4,335]

I agree that that turnover went rather easily but don't forget, Anakin was never happy with himself. He also believed that having greater powers will save the one thing he hold more dear than life itself (Anakin was already consumed by the Dark Side when he "attacked" Padmé). The relationship between Anakin and Palpatine is really not enough developed in the previous installments but Palpatine always made Anakin feel good about himself by giving him compliments, which he badly needed, because deep down inside Anakin is a scared little boy, and it was eating him alive. In short, Anakin wanted it.

But you're right, Lucas' shortcomings as a writer are painstakingly clear. In AOTC, he could easily have deepened the role that Palpatine played as Anakin's "other" mentor. The transgression could've been worked out much better, already starting in Episode II.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

"I feel the characters were all strong, archetypal characters and they are now part of the cultural mythology, at least with the mass media of our times. Certainly, the characters are loved by kids and I kept my eye on the kids all the time. I wanted them to like it, to enjoy it, to understand it."

- Irvin Kershner, Director

The Empire Strikes Back Official Collectors Edition, 1980

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Well from my point of view all this point of view stuff is getting really stupid.

Justin

Only a Sith believes in absolutes. That's what makes them so completely EVIL.

[bondo 33]

I didn't happen THAT fast.

That's not the point. He is 'seduced' throughout the first half of the movie in a way that seems too infantile for a grown man over 20. I would expect a 10-year-old to go for it...albeit not a clever one...

But all of this stuff reeks of 'because the screen writer wants it that way!' and not like some clever plot to overthrow a whole democrazy!

Check out the book, it does a better job of fleshing out the change and betrayal

[publicist 4,643]

But you're right, Lucas' shortcomings as a writer are painstakingly clear. In AOTC, he could easily have deepened the role that Palpatine played as Anakin's "other" mentor. The transgression could've been worked out much better, already starting in Episode II.  

I think this whole Anakin/Jedi-Business comes off as decidedly 'uncool', for the lack of a better word. I would have preferred Anakin as a Han-Solo-like guy we're cheering for, then his downfall would build to something of a shock. As it stands, it's a very expensive workshop for amateur dramatics.

And somehow i get the feeling as if Williams is relieved that it's over, too

[publicist 4,643]

@Bondo

i do if it comes free with the movie ticket:)

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I would have preferred Anakin as a Han-Solo-like guy we're cheering for, then his downfall would build to something of a shock.

Me too. Anakin finally got some charm in the opening scenes of RotS, but he went back to blah during the love scenes. Pity.

[Jeshopk 8]

there are so many complaints about Anakins sudden change of mind, but rarely about the infantile seduction scenes by the emperor. How old is Anakin? 5? 'The Jedi are bad, i'm good, join me!'...'OK'...sorry, but that's screenwriting on the 'Transformers - The Animated Series' scale.

Well, not to get too far into politics, but look how many people have been suckered into going along with atrocities by having their "supreme chancellor" call the shots on who is to be hunted down and labelled the enemy? You think those people are born evil? No, its propaganda and fear of loss, just like the Anakin/Palpatine relationship.

What this movie acknowledges is that good and evil are actually two sides of the same coin.

Are the Jedi good guys for keeping Anakin's mom in slavery just so he won't be distracted in his training? (major backfire)

Are they good guys for disallowing any attachment? (extremism)

They're good, but they became too rigid and got wiped out because of it. In those times, aggression will always win out, because it has a clearer path to preserving loved ones (in a general sense). People go with whatever offers them personal security, and the Jedi weren't doing that for Anakin.

The transgression could've been worked out much better, already starting in Episode II.

You did see Episode II, didn't you?

[publicist 4,643]

@Jeshopk

This is all good and well and the political allusions aren't lost on me...BUT you have to translate it to the screen in a way that it feels like real people are doing things and not like a 12-year old stumbling over his keyboard with the desperate wish to make a grand epic...and that's exactly what this movie looks like:

L'il Georges attempt at great drama...and with all this manpower and moneypower poured into it, it's just shameful nobody told him to hire Tom Stoppard or any other old script-doc-whore right from the start. But that's a rich man's ego for you

Addendum: after my first lukewarm reaction to the score, i finally realized that i just have to skip tracks 5-9 and the 13-minute monster and it's a neat album with some powerful moments....but the action music still sounds uninspired, well done but not really going anywhere.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

that 13 minute monster is the best reason for listening to the cd.

[Lurker 5]

And the other 5 Star Wars movies sucked?

In their current versions, yes. Even Star Wars sucks now.

Neil

[Jacck 23]

And the other 5 Star Wars movies sucked?

In their current versions, yes. Even Star Wars sucks now.

Neil

You're just going out of your way to prove your point that you hate what Star Wars has become.. OK, WE GET IT!

Jesus... such negativity...

[publicist 4,643]

@ JoeinAr:

Why? You had every second of that music decades before...and this one isn't performed or recorded any better, so...

[JoeinAR 1,949]

And the other 5 Star Wars movies sucked?

In their current versions, yes. Even Star Wars sucks now.

Neil

Neil, shame on you, Star Wars does not suck, Star Wars Ep. IV, A New Hope sucks,

the film we know as Star Wars died April 10-1981. :cry:

[JoeinAR 1,949]

by the way, publicist, our newbie, just gave me an idea how ROTS could have been better, and more mature, and really pushed the envelope. Lucas would never have dared to go this far.

In this new version when the film begins Padme is not pregnant. As Anakin journey's down the path of the dark side, a friendship between Padme and OB1 grows much stronger, but never anything more than a "friend"ship, pure and simple. But because Anakin is so far down the path, he is convinced otherwise.

In a moment of rage, in an argument with Padme about OB1, Anakin brutally rapes her. Later he tell's her he is sorry, and begs for her forgiveness, in her fear she agrees. Later she flee's only for Anakin to hunt her down. In this version she doesn't say at the end, OB1 there is still good in him.

Yeah, I like that Luke and Leia a product of a brutal crime. I can hear the emperor after he finds out what Anakin did, GOOOD, GOOOOOD.

[Jacck 23]

by the way, publicist, our newbie, just gave me an idea how ROTS could have been better, and more mature, and really pushed the envelope.  Lucas would never have dared to go this far.

In this new version when the film begins Padme is not pregnant.  As Anakin journey's down the path of the dark side, a friendship between Padme and OB1 grows much stronger, but never anything more than a "friend"ship, pure and simple.  But because Anakin is so far down the path, he is convinced otherwise.

In a moment of rage, in an argument with Padme about OB1, Anakin brutally rapes her.  Later he tell's her he is sorry, and begs for her forgiveness, in her fear she agrees.  Later she flee's only for Anakin to hunt her down.  In this version she doesn't say at the end, OB1 there is still good in him.

They're husband and wife... would she really see it as "rape".. maybe he just had a lot of sexual frustration..

[Jeshopk 8]

Well, publicist, I certainly respect your point of view in demanding more emphasis on verbal reality in films, but as I see it, what isn't told explicitly is told visually, or through connections to the different films or different scenes.

Star Wars has actually turned out to be a series that requires some thought to put together. Some see that as a good thing, some see it as a detriment. After all, there was little thinking to do in the 1977 version. But since then, the whole series has demanded something of the viewer to put things together in their minds, and acknowledge the metaphorical/mythical aspects outside of the literal.

How many people were lost on Star Wars when Vader was redeemed, even though that is such a basic aspect of our culture (redempion of evil.) It really has become more challenging, and as a result, also a little less populist. It confronts human weakness, and some people don't enjoy that as much as a definite divide between good and evil. Just look at the headlines and you'll see that people like their villains painted pitch black. I'm just glad Lucas doesn't buy into that, and there are too many movies that do.

[Lurker 5]

And the other 5 Star Wars movies sucked?

In their current versions, yes. Even Star Wars sucks now.

Neil

Neil, shame on you, Star Wars does not suck, Star Wars Ep. IV, A New Hope sucks,

the film we know as Star Wars died April 10-1981. :cry:

The current iteration, the only one you can buy, sucks. Naturally the original version is a masterpiece but now Lucas is treating it with the same contempt as the Holiday Special.

Neil

[JoeinAR 1,949]

OH look two apologist posts in a row.

Vader was good, he was just misunderstood, he had a bad childhood,

Hitler was good, he was just misunderstood, he had a bad childhood,

Stalin was good, he was just misunderstood, he had a bad childhood,

Michael is good, he was just misunderstood, he had a bad childhood,

John Gacy was good, he was just misunderstood, he had a bad childhood.

There are no monsters, just people who need a little understanding, there is good in all of us.

[publicist 4,643]

@Jeshopk, again

Well, yes, but i don't SEE/HEAR this in the finished product...of course, you can interpret the whole prequels into that direction, but all i took away from the 3 films (mind you, i never saw or wished to see them a second time) is that it is simply a bad storyline with bad dialogue and helpless actors.

The 2 hours of 'AotC' are spent with so much unintellegible stuff that i don't know where to start...and i don't even mention self-indulgent podraces or '5th Element'-like chases, only the whole clone premise with the bounty hunter stuff and Count Dracula etc...without flattering me too much, given the time Lucas had, i could've come up with a better plot leading to the fall of democracy, easily...and that's not a good thing.

BTW, i have more words squandered on these films here than i did ever before

But remember, the subtext of a movie can't really substitute for the lack in emotional participation...and apart from the handful of really diehard fans, it seems hard to believe people really care about the protagonists of the first and second prequel. Here lies the big problem.

[MrScratch 294]

There are no monsters, just people who need a little understanding, there is good in all of us.

It's called depth, people are never all-good or all-bad. Although I dislike that the saga had to start as far back as Vader's childhood, Star Wars clearly established that Vader "was a pupil" of Obi-Wan's "until he turned to evil." Based solely on what Ben tells us in the first movie, Vader used to be a good guy. Something/someone made him evil. The sequels just ran with this idea.

By the way, I've finally gotten around to listening to the original Star Wars trilogy commentaries on DVD (I've borrowed them from a friend). I'm about halfway through ANH. Lucas clearly states that he wrote backstories for Ben, Vader, etc. when he wrote the original Star Wars, but that he never intended to make them into movies. I laughed out loud.

Jeff

[JoeinAR 1,949]

It's called depth, people are never all-good or all-bad

bullsh**, sometimes evil people are just evil people.

[MrScratch 294]

It's called depth, people are never all-good or all-bad

bullsh**, sometimes evil people are just evil people.

So, Obi-Wan trained an evil person to be a powerful Jedi? Right.

Jeff

[Jacck 23]

Everyone has good and bad, just in different proportions (never 0% of either )

[Jeshopk 8]

@publicist

I totally agree that if you don't like the chases, clones and "count dracula" type characters and the whole fun aspect of the movies, they'll not beg for repeat viewing. You have to be a fan of the aesthetic and kinetics if you are to then absorb the details of the plots. I admit that the movies' plots can be a little confusing (or unintelligible as you put it) on first viewing! These movies were made specifically for repeat viewing, like a piece of classical music is made for repeat listening. If you get nothing out of them, then you get nothing out of them, and you'll therefore never watch them again. But its much more than a "handful" of people that do watch them repeatedly, and discover new things about them all the time.

[Jeshopk 8]

Everyone has good and bad, just in different proportions (never 0% of either )

You tell em Jack. Is that not elementary? How can this be disputed?

[A24 4,335]

The transgression could've been worked out much better, already starting in Episode II.

You did see Episode II, didn't you?

Yes, I did. And I haven't seen much of a transgression towards his other mentor in AOTC. Have you, Jeshopk?

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Jeshopk 8]

Yes, I did. And I haven't seen much of a transgression towards his other mentor in AOTC. Have you, Jeshopk?  

Yes, there are a few scenes in AOTC revealing that Anakin is being mentored by Palpatine. One scene shows it happening. It is Palpatine that plants the seeds in Anakin's mind to defy ObiWan and the council's guidance. Another scene shows ObiWan warning Anakin about Palpatine's manipulative ways and Anakin defends his vehemently. Evidence is shown in the Meadow picnic that Anakin believes in monarchy over democracy, but Padme thinks he is joking. We then see Anakin reiterating Palpatine's words in his confession scene.

Have you watched it since 2002?

[A24 4,335]

Yes, I did. And I haven't seen much of a transgression towards his other mentor in AOTC. Have you, Jeshopk?  

Yes, there are a few scenes in AOTC revealing that Anakin is being mentored by Palpatine. One scene shows it happening. It is Palpatine that plants the seeds in Anakin's mind to defy ObiWan and the council's guidance. Another scene shows ObiWan warning Anakin about Palpatine's manipulative ways and Anakin defends his vehemently. Evidence is shown in the Meadow picnic that Anakin believes in monarchy over democracy, but Padme thinks he is joking. We then see Anakin reiterating Palpatine's words in his confession scene.

Jess, I'm referring to the miss of scenes where the audience can see AND feel a strong relationship building up between an apprentice (Anakin) and a mentor (Palpatine). Perhaps a cosy get-together would've been useful, where you can see some serious bonding, or witness the birth of a special friendship. Not something insubstantial, mind you, but something that makes us understand what it is that Anakin sees in him, or why he talks so affectionately about him and why eventually he chooses for him. What we've seen in AOTC is much to fleeting and even superficially. It would've been interesting to see the contrast between the two mentorships. On one side, the never satisfied Obi-Wan who always complains (No, Anakin!"), and on the other, the very appreciative Palpatine ("I see you become the greatest Jedi of them all").

In fact, I think we haven't seen much or any mentoring at all in the prequels (we did get a lot of nagging from Obi ). The philosophical side of "the Force" that we once knew from the first trilogy seemed to be replaced with dry midi-chlorian explanations, or with babblings about which Jedi is the best. An important scene, in my viewpoint that is, has been cut from TPM where you see Qui-Gon mentoring young Anakin after he got in a fight with young Greedo. This scene really showed how good Qui-Gon could have been as a mentor for Anakin if he hadn't died. I think it's the only scene where we actually see Anakin being mentored. No wonder the guy ran to the Dark Side!

I find it almost surreal when Obi tells Anakin that he knows about his friendship with Palpatine because we hardly ever seen it.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Star Wars: Episode III- Revenge of The Sith- Theatrical Version 2005

Stefan's Ruminations

The best of the prequels without a doubt.

The story is adequate, the pacing is much improved (especially when compared to the comatoze TPM).

The acting...well.

Hayden is acceptable as Anakin rurned to the Dark Side, you can see he's really putting all his effort into the role.

But it's hard battling against the sometimes terrible dialogue. (the early scenes with Padme are an atrocity of scriptwriting).

For the first time I saw that McGregor actually might have been having some fun doing a Star Wars film.

People have said how close he is to Alec Guinnes, but I did not see that at all, thankfully I saw more of Ewan himself this time.

Still there are times when he is struggling, I did not "buy" his shock when he saw the holographic tapes and saw his Padawan had turned to evil. Fortunatly he did sell the climactic moments when Obi-Wan is expressing his anger and sense of loss and confusion after just having cut of Ani's legs.

I do think someone make a big mistake when writing the line "We were brothers."

Everything from AOTC and ROTS clearly show a father/son relationship.

Portman is pretty much wasted in this film, she's not that bad though, considering she was to play the cliche "wife in waiting" role.

But her beauty was mired by sticking those Princess Leia bagels on the sides of her head. (Why would Leia adopt the hairstyle of the mother she never knew, George)

Christopher Lee he's good in the 2 or 3 close-ups he has in this film. I'm sure a digital double was used for the rest of his 2 minute walk on in this film.

This film could have had more of him and less of Grievous, who looks pretty cool but in the end does not amount to much.

Digital Yoda was an improvement over the one we saw in AOTC, but again they overdid it with the facial expressions.

McDiarmid is this film star.

He's the only one of the 3 films who has been able deliver consistantly good work with the shoddy material he's been handed.

His presence elevates the film more then any CGI rendering could have done.

Wookies in ROTS, did not give a crap, nearly forgotten about that stuff already. So Yoda is close with Chewie's dad...right?

Slaughtered Jedi's, well filmed, though the LOTR films were a clear inspiration for the way this was done.

Ani killing the Younglings was a bold move for Lucas, but it makes him totally beyond redemption. Vader's final moments in ROTJ (never my favorites) now make even less sense then before.

As for the slaughtering, I expected it to be more graphic, more bloodletting...more horror. The only real shock moment was Anakin ablaze. (needed more of that George!)

I can't believe they totally blew the Darth Vader scene.

It's all wrong, the screaming, the overdone arm movements, Vader was never like this. This was the one scene I was sure they COULD not blow and they fucked it up...FUCKED it up completely. That was not Darth Vader, that was Anakin Skywalker dressed in Darth Vaders costume. (they should have done Ani's reaction to Padme's death before donning him in the suit.)

The music, cut up pretty badly and undermixed most of the time.

This is a pretty good score, robbed of it's full potential (hmmm...that sums up anything in the prequels i think).

Not sure if the TESB lifts during the Palpy/Yodaman battle were intended by Williams or just trown in, but it makes no sense. It does have to be said that the level of sound effects muting these cues make them a lot more tolarable then on the CD.

So they recored the choir parts of DOTF? Why? they could have used the 1999 recording and have pretty much the same thing.

I hummed the Shaft theme when Mace was entering Palpatine's room to place him under arrest.

The opening shot of the space ships was cool, but the battle itself was FAR to overdone, seemed like something was shooting or exploding in every pixel of the digital frame. It's impossible to make out any kind of details.

Overall i enjoyed it, but i'm also glad it's all over and done with, these 3 films conbined have yielded maybe an hour and a half of good quality film, in the end it just was not worth it.

The original trilogy will always be far superiour, and this new one does not mesh with it in any way, narrative, filming style, or tone.

Right now i'm paying a lot of money for the 1993 Definitive Edition (HA!) Laserdiscs and a player so I can watch the original, almost "unspoiled" films in the best quality they have been legally released.

If I want to see ROTS again i'll rent the DVD or find a download of it.

And that's the way it is folks...

[A24 4,335]

I think I feel exactly the same as you about this film, Stefancos. This calls for a :

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well, just goes to show that you are never to old to learn...Alex.