jgraves 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 The Answer is YES, almost all the time. Examples? ET, Raiders, Jurrasic Park, Hook...I could go on.BUT, he doesn't use them in a "look at the cool synth line!" kind of way. I know he'll use a texture here and there, but what I'm talking about is the underlying synths he has doubling the orchestra almost all the time.Now before you chasten me and tie me to the Tree of Woe, keep in mind I've got the written scores to a lot of his films, and he almost always has at least one, more often than not two, synths double the strings, harp, voices, or woodwinds.Even back in the 80's he was using ARPs and Moogs (for you non-gear folks they were the original, first synths) in scores like Raiders, not to stand on their own, but to THICKEN the texture.My Friend the Brach - One synth doubles the low strings (that gorgeous pedal tone), another some ww stuffWelcome to JP - One doubles the strings, another the voicesActually, every time he has voices a synth is doubling them (with a voice patch).I'm sure he's still doing it - it makes total sense. Most inst. that get doubled are harp, glock, voices, or strings. Sounds that are easily mocked up on synths so they blend well and just beef it all up!Just thought I'd share this fascinating tidbit...now discuss amongst yourselves....Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Oh my, I looked at this thread, and thought I don't remember posting this, then I saw a different name over MY avatar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Oh my, I looked at this thread, and thought I don't remember posting this, then I saw a different name over MY avatar. LOL same here at first when i saw this thread, i thought it was u until i saw a different name over your avatar8O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Williams' use of synths in Superman: The Movie, War of the Worlds and Sleepers are so subtle, but so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damo 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 And Star Wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Williams' use of synths in Superman: The Movie, War of the Worlds and Sleepers are so subtle, but so great.Surely you don't mean "The Planet Krypton", after the opening fanfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Very interesting! I can hear the synths blatantly sometimes (as in Fortress of Solitude and WOTW) but other times, as in Welcome to Jurassic Park, I had no idea.I would sometimes prefer he lay off them for touching celeste moments. I like the sound of the hammer on the metal, like in E.T.Sometimes he uses synths BECAUSE they can sound so cold, as in subtle, melancholy portions of AI. They can convey a desolate emotion by their very ability to sound inhuman.Other times, they lend a surreal quality, suggesting that the moment in the film is surreal (as in coming home after being attacked by aliens and being covered with "people dust").I would also say he uses them to suggest futurism, or scientific technology, as in parts of Minority Report, AI, Spacecamp, Jurassic Park and Stepmom (the scene where she is using Photoshop).I always found it odd that Williams was described by some academics as a traditional composer who brings nothing new to the repertoire. Sure, he didn't invent synths, or make it his hallmark, but his use of them as part of the traditional orchestra sets him apart from Wagner or Debussy. Those people also conveniently ignore his personal, modern style that he incorporates into each of his scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Damo, he does not use synth in "Star Wars." He does use them in every film in the series after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Wrong! The cantina band music used synth bass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRuleOfThirds 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Always didn't use synths... :roll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgraves 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Let me repeat what I said first thing. Even in Raiders, Williams has got synths going on in the background. You wouldn't hear anything at all, unless they were taken out and then the mix would probably be less beefy. I'm sure some mainly string-based scores are non-synth (Angela's Ashes, Always, Born on the 4th, Stanley and Iris) but all the big, blockbuster scores have got 'em just for the beef if not anything else.Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacck 23 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Most Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Wrong! The cantina band music used synth bass! It's source music. Doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I think it's amazing how it's all there but you absolutely don't notice it! In "Journey to the Island" (JP), when the big theme comes in, the trumpets are doubled with synth chimes. It just enhances the glorious feel of it, but it's not noticable as being a synth addition! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgraves 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 Exactly! I guess you really need the score to get the complete idea. Good example! And can I say one of about a MILLION examples in the JP score...Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Where is there synth in Raiders? I would say he uses synth for altering color more than "beefing" up the sound, when he doubles synth with real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 The scene where the swastika burns off the box is the one that comes immediately to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 That's not by Williams. It is a sound effect by Burtt. It's supposed to be a real sound that happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Even in Raiders, Williams has got synths going on in the background. You wouldn't hear anything at all, unless they were taken out and then the mix would probably be less beefy. I'll quote one of my enemies at theforce.net and say "PPOR!" (print proof or retract).I don't think Raiders is one of the scores that has subtle synth throughout, my friend. Unless it is mixed to -20 decibels. I have pretty good ears! In Last Crusade, he incorporated plenty of synth coloration. But not even constantly, more like a few splashes every other cue or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Synths in Raiders? Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Well, if the sound during the box burning is not music, then I don't believe there to be any synths. I've listened to it on my surround sound and did not notic anything synth-like. I'll give it another listen, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Let me repeat what I said first thing. Even in Raiders, Williams has got synths going on in the background. You wouldn't hear anything at all, unless they were taken out and then the mix would probably be less beefy. I'm sure some mainly string-based scores are non-synth (Angela's Ashes, Always, Born on the 4th, Stanley and Iris) but all the big, blockbuster scores have got 'em just for the beef if not anything else.JasonI understand what you mean,but your the first one to bring this up in 5000 threads,how do you know this exactly?.To beef up string lines?I've never read this elsewhere or seen synths playing during Williams conducting concerts of his music,or any mention by Williams that he does this except for specific moments where you can clearly hear it(Nixon,Sleepers,JFK...ect..)K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgraves 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 I don't think it's the kind of thing that would work as well in the concert hall. Just some "icing" he puts in the studio because he's a perfectionist!Just repeating what I see in the score. Thought it was interesting:For example, synth "organ" doubling the bass trombone pedals and harp gliss. on "In the Jungle."ARP synth doubling string harmonics, "quasi oude with deep echo" under violins gliss, another synth "organ" under low strings on "The Cave."ARP synth again doubling the low strings/brass an octave LOWER throughout “Map Room.”…and the list goes on…Again, not stuff that you would hear as much as feel if it were missing.Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 At least (and luckily) he integrates them better in his scores that Goldsmith did.Lotman - intentionally provocative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 At least (and luckily) he integrates them better in his scores that Goldsmith did.Lotman - intentionally provocativeAre you on crack?In the examples mentioned here synth are used as a subliminal support.Goldsmith uses synth as another voice in the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HPFAN_2 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Well it's good the way he uses them. (if he does) But i still think it's interesting. Is there any in ROTS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 At least (and luckily) he integrates them better in his scores that Goldsmith did.Lotman - intentionally provocativeAre you on crack?In the examples mentioned here synth are used as a subliminal support.Goldsmith uses synth as another voice in the orchestra.I second that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpeteer 302 Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Is there any in ROTS?Umm. What??? Is there any synth in ROTS?I don't have the CD with me, but the track with the music from the Cirque de Soleil show where Palpatine talks to Anakin about the Sith is full of low rumblings that don't sound orchestral to me.And I'm sure Grievous' theme has synth in there. It's been in every SW score since "Empire." I think every time it's quite easy to discover it.My favorite use in the Star Wars films is from "The Dark Side Beckons." That low rumbling while Vader searches for Luke is unmatched. Its first use, tracked in the scene where Luke confronts Jabba, is OK, but not as good.Second would be the fight with Vader on Dagobah in "Empire." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Is there any in ROTS?Umm. What??? Is there any synth in ROTS?I don't have the CD with me, but the track with the music from the Cirque de Soleil show where Palpatine talks to Anakin about the Sith is full of low rumblings that don't sound orchestral to me.And I'm sure Grievous' theme has synth in there. It's been in every SW score since "Empire." I think every time it's quite easy to discover it.My favorite use in the Star Wars films is from "The Dark Side Beckons." That low rumbling while Vader searches for Luke is unmatched. Its first use, tracked in the scene where Luke confronts Jabba, is OK, but not as good.Second would be the fight with Vader on Dagobah in "Empire."I think it it safe to say that Williams uses synths in Star Wars to illustrate evil. Are synths evil to him?----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted July 19, 2005 Share Posted July 19, 2005 Was he trying to say David was evil in "Hide and Seek" from AI? ni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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