Why didn't JW score Superman Returns?

[scvideo 0]

I'm a long time John Williams fan but new member here. I am very curious to know why Mr. Williams did not do the score for Superman Returns. Has this info been published anywhere? I've searched a little on this forum and elsewhere and have not seen this question posed or answered so I thought I'd ask here.

Was he not even asked by Bryan Singer? This seems odd since Singer has said that one of his conditions to doing the film was being able to use Williams original themes.

Did Mr. Williams turn it down becuase he was busy, not interested or not enough $$$? The busy excuse doesn't make sense since the film began production two or three years ago, which seems like enough time to book JW. Not interested or not enough $$$ could be possible reasons although considering how little new material he would need to create it would seem to be worth his time to do it.

It just seems odd that a composer who is still alive and in good health would not be hired to score a film that relies so much on their original work. I'd love to know what Mr. Williams response is to this, but in lieu of that would also like to hear what other fans speculate.

[John Crichton 4]

He was probably never asked.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

I've asked God this very question every day since I saw the film.

For what it's worth, I've heard that he actually was asked to score the film, but I don't know of any source for this information.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,087]

The answer was on the main page of this site for a while...

He felt that Routh was too close to the late Reeve and therefore he just couldn't bring himself to scoring the movie, it would just be too painful.

[King Mark 3,834]

He felt that Routh was too close to the late Reeve and therefore he just couldn't bring himself to scoring the movie, it would just be too painful.

Williams is also the king of diplomatic answers.

K.M.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,918]

He felt that Routh was too close to the late Reeve and therefore he just couldn't bring himself to scoring the movie, it would just be too painful.

They don't look that much alike.

[JoeinAR 1,954]

because Bryan Singer has a chosen composer and is loyal to him, which is most admirable.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Not really. He should have been loyal to Williams' score and hired a different composer. It's not like Ottman still wouldn't have been editing the thing.

Ozzel - who wonders if Williams is reconsidering that decision now.

[JoeinAR 1,954]

I've never believed that bull story.

[A24 4,814]

I think Singer was initially afraid that Williams would be old school.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

He felt that Routh was too close to the late Reeve and therefore he just couldn't bring himself to scoring the movie, it would just be too painful.

They don't look that much alike.

That depends on the angle. Sometimes he looks almost like Chris, sometimes like what an acceptable Superman should be, sometimes almost like *gasp* Dean Cain!

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,918]

Reeve looked like a manly man. Routh looks like a boy with a fake square chin.

[Richard P 4,779]

Did Mr. Williams turn it down becuase he was busy, not interested or not enough $$$? The busy excuse doesn't make sense since the film began production two or three years ago, which seems like enough time to book JW. Not interested or not enough $$$ could be possible reasons although considering how little new material he would need to create it would seem to be worth his time to do it..

That would be typical of the egotist and money-grabbing nature of the industry - not enough money.

Maybe it's my business/ethical attitude, or the recent news I read about BBC executive pay increases, but I have a serious lack of respect for anyone at Williams' stature and wealth who didn't take probably a quite interesting movie because they wanted more money. Horner did good IMO by taking that independent project and producing a very interesting score for it, instead of thinking about the money.

I'm not implying at all that it's the case here - quite the opposite, I just hate egotistical people.

To give my angle on the question, I find the reason given about Routh's resemblance to Reeve fairly reasonable. Also, John Williams isn't the only good composer on the planet and I think Ottman did a good job.

[Ollie 1,291]

The answer was on the main page of this site for a while...

He felt that Routh was too close to the late Reeve and therefore he just couldn't bring himself to scoring the movie, it would just be too painful.

I really never believed that story.

Quite plain and simple I feel Williams was never asked because Singer intended to use Ottman all along.

[JMan 0]

Ottman did a great job. Plus I think we all know that Williams doesnt stop and start up a franchise again. Thats just his thing. He even said that last summer. He believes in doing new projects.

[robthehand 3]

He believes in doing new projects.

Really? You notice he hasn't scored a film that's not continuing a previous collaboration or series since The Patriot in 2000.

[Mr. Breathmask 594]

I don't think Williams ever worked with Rob Marshall before.

[Hitch 60]

Why didn't JW score Superman Returns?

He was probably dusting down his Oscar nomination for SUPERMAN THE MOVIE to even give a shit.

[nightscape94 967]

I doubt Singer ever even considered Williams. He's worked with Ottman on all but one project.

Tim

[Morlock 11]

Okay- a half-time report. A few different theories and comments, only 2 of which make much sense in my opinion:

Why didn't JW score Superman Returns?

1.

He was probably never asked.

2.

because Bryan Singer has a chosen composer and is loyal to him, which is most admirable.

[AI 0]

Because John Williams is a Titan.

[Morlock 11]

What's your point?

[robthehand 3]

I don't think Williams ever worked with Rob Marshall before.

As far as I know, he became involved with that project when Spielberg was considering directing it.

[Mr. Breathmask 594]

Well, yes, but how much did he actually work with Spielberg during the scoring process? Not much, I'm thinking.

[robthehand 3]

That's true. But would he have scored it if SPielberg hadn't been involved? Obviously, we'll never know, but my suspsicion is not. What I guess happened is he planned to score it when Spielberg planned to direct it, got genuinely interested in the project enough to score it anyway.

But hey, I'm not complaining.

[Hitch 60]

But hey, I'm not complaining.

You didn't complain when he lost the Oscar this year????

[robthehand 3]

What?

I meant I didn't complain about him scoring Memoirs of a Geisha...

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

That's true. But would he have scored it if SPielberg hadn't been involved? Obviously, we'll never know, but my suspsicion is not. What I guess happened is he planned to score it when Spielberg planned to direct it, got genuinely interested in the project enough to score it anyway.

But hey, I'm not complaining.

I thought he was even planning to score the book even before talks of the movie?

[robthehand 3]

Really? I didn't know that - that's good if it's true.

[Lurker 5]

But would he have scored it if SPielberg hadn't been involved?

Memoirs of a Geisha was the first Spielberg produced film to have a Williams score.

Neil

[Ollie 1,291]

After all these years.

[Red 75]

Memoirs of a Geisha was the first Spielberg produced film to have a Williams score.  

Thats kinda surprising.

[deleted account 110]

I know for a fact that Bryan would have gone to the mat to make sure Ottman scored this movie. Singer wouldn't have asked JW to it, the only circumstance I could have imagined where Ottman would have been replaced would have been because Warner Brothers would have rejected Ottman's work over Bryan's head, and even then I bet they would have simply tracked in the score recordings from STM rather than commission JW to write new music.

BTW, the only reason Ottman edits Bryan's movies is so he can score them - notice he never edits movies for anyone else? The only reason John Ottman didn't score X-Men 1 is because he was contracted to his directing duties on Urban Legend 2: Final Cut and even though he had time to score XMen 1 during a break in his schedule between produciton and post, Pheonix Pictures (financiers of Urban Legends 2) would let him do it. Kamen did XMen as a favor to producer Lauren Shuler Donner and her husband Richard Donner, but it was a tenous relationship with Bryan at best, and Michael was very frustrated with how he was treated.

As far as his work on Superman Returns, I think Ottman has such a different style than JW that it's like apples and oranges comparing his score to Superman The Movie. Personally, I enjoy his (well Damon Intrabartolo's) take on the main title, although I felt the JW score dropped in at the end of the airplane sequence as Superman flies off was kind of blunt and clunky, and the music for the final shots of the film felt like badly edited tracking. I felt Ottman did a good job though with the parts of the score where he did his own thing and didn't try to imitate JW.

[Luke Skywalker 2,204]

Memoirs of a Geisha was the first Spielberg produced film to have a Williams score.  

Thats kinda surprising.

And wrong.

Spielberg Produces almost all the movies he directs

[Ollie 1,291]

He probably meant to say the first Spielberg produced film not directed by Spielberg.

[Lurker 5]

Did I really have to spell that out here?

Oh wait, Luke mentioned it? I probably did have to spell it out.

Neil

[Ollie 1,291]

When dealing with this message board you have to spell everything out.

[Lurker 5]

Too bad "produced" is not one syllable.

But then "syllable" is not one either.

But then "either"...

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,949]

Ok guys, enough with the acid.

[Ollie 1,291]

Of course.