Why are so many talented people Americans?

[Josh500 1,615]

This thread is not intended to boost Americans' egos (since I'm partly American myself), but rather to address a question that's been on my mind for some time. Almost everybody I admire and whom I consider unbelievably talented NOWADAYS are Americans. Why is that? I doubt that America has the best education system in the world--at least not on the high school level--and I don't think it's got anything to do with genes, since most Americans have European ancestors. It could be that the American mentality is different than European or Asian ones... they simply try harder to achieve their goals. So the competition is harder in consequence, and they just have to be better. What do you think?

List of people I admire most (who are Americans):

John Williams

Steven Spielberg

Stephen King

David Copperfield

[Miguel Andrade 1,267]

This thread is not intended to boost Americans' egos (since I'm partly American myself), but rather to address a question that's been on my mind for some time. Almost everybody I admire and whom I consider unbelievably talented NOWADAYS are Americans. Why is that? I doubt that America has the best education system in the world--at least not on the high school level--and I don't think it's got anything to do with genes, since most Americans have European ancestors. It could be that the American mentality is different than European or Asian ones... they simply try harder to achieve their goals. So the competition is harder in consequence, and they just have to be better. What do you think?

List of people I admire most (who are Americans):

John Williams

Steven Spielberg

Stephen King

David Copperfield

Is that serious? C'mon... Even if some of my favourite artists are american, there is just too much talent everywhere to suport such a statement.

[Josh500 1,615]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

[Miguel Andrade 1,267]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Well, i can easilly think of a number of great painters from just around the corner -- literelly speaking -- of great talent, but rather small fame, because they live in Portugal.

[Guest macrea]

Maybe something to do with a culture that promotes individuality and freedom of expression. However, it also seems we have more thriving hacks and wannabes than any country.

[nicholas 1]

I can see this could be quite a controversial thread.

It's interesting that your choice of talented people come from a relatively narrow field - you might call it showbiz, or popular culture (not meaning to denigrate the maestro...). Clearly the US is the home of "showbiz" and pop culture, and, to a lesser extent, the UK - perhaps it's largely an English-speaking phenomenon. I'm sure in many other fields of human endeavour you'd find other parts of the world dominate: as in, for instance, Sumo wrestling. Or gondola manufacture...

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Well, how many Argetine/Chinese/French/Austrlian/Italian/Dutch or Swiss books/films/albums do you have or have consumed? Maybe you think only American people are talented because you've only been exposed to American culture.

To say there are no unbelivably talented people in China is ridiculous.

[Josh500 1,615]

It's interesting that your choice of talented people come from a relatively narrow field - you might call it showbiz, or popular culture (not meaning to denigrate the maestro...). Clearly the US is the home of "showbiz" and pop culture, and, to a lesser extent, the UK - perhaps it's largely an English-speaking phenomenon. I'm sure in many other fields of human endeavour you'd find other parts of the world dominate: as in, for instance, Sumo wrestling. Or gondola manufacture...

Well, literature, the motion pictures, music, and magic... it's quite a wide field. Also, you could argue that the US is the home of showbiz because there are so many talented directors, musicians, etc. there.

Well, how many Argetine/Chinese/French/Austrlian/Italian/Dutch or Swiss books/films/albums do you have or have consumed? Maybe you think only American people are talented because you've only been exposed to American culture.

That's exactly my point. Most Argentine/Chinese/French and so on artists aren't known all over the world, precisely because they're not talented enough to be singled out. Don't get me wrong, of course there are many talented people all over the world, but it just seems to be that most of them come from the US. That's all I meant.

To say there are no unbelivably talented people in China is ridiculous.

I never said that. I just can't think of any.

[robthehand 3]

Well, literature, the motion pictures, music, and magic... it's quite a wide field. Also, you could argue that the US is the home of showbiz because there are so many talented directors, musicians, etc. there.

You *could* indeed argue that, but it's a pretty thin argument.

That's exactly my point. Most Argentine/Chinese/French and so on artists aren't known all over the world, precisely because they're not talented enough to be singled out.

To be singled out be whom? The US? Are you saying that people are not considered talented unless they've been singled out by Americans?

Don't get me wrong, of course there are many many talented people all over the world, but it just seems to be that most of them come from the US. That's all I meant.

No, just most of the ones you've heard of. There's a big difference.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ziyi Zhang... she's pretty talented.

[Josh500 1,615]

Ziyi Zhang... she's pretty talented.

Yep, and she came to be known all over the world (mainly) because of an American film Memoirs of a Geisha. (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a China-Hong Kong-Taiwan-United States co-production.)

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

They are very talented and good at selling and marketing their products , movies and music etc...

[Josh500 1,615]

That's true, but IMO that's on top of the talent they have already. They have to have something to market in the first place.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Conversely, why are so many untalented people Americans? Carrot Top, The Rock, Ed Wood, Sanjaya...

Talent has little to do with the country in which one was born. Most of my favourite composers are either Russian or English, but that has as much to do with national style as with anything else.

My list of most respected talents (all fields)

Vaughan Williams (English)

Miles Davis (American)

Stravinsky (Russian)

David Bowie (English)

John Williams (American)

Spike Milligan (English)

Charlie Chaplin (English)

Shostakovich (Russian)

Terry Gilliam (American)

Dennis Potter (English)

Sure, America features strongly, but not so much as to dominate the group.

I would argue the point made that America has the most talented filmmakers. I would say that film-for-film America makes the weakest films of almost any country in the world. Of course America has made some absolute classics, but these are almost buried under the plethora of rotten tomatoes that the US movie machine churns out every year. For a country that consistently makes excellent films with relatively few duffers I would have to say France is in the lead.

[scissorhands 16]

Literature Nobel Prizes from the last 2 decades:

# 2006 - Orhan Pamuk

# 2005 - Harold Pinter

# 2004 - Elfriede Jelinek

# 2003 - J. M. Coetzee

# 2002 - Imre Kertész

# 2001 - V. S. Naipaul

# 2000 - Gao Xingjian

# 1999 - Günter Grass

# 1998 - José Saramago

# 1997 - Dario Fo

# 1996 - Wislawa Szymborska

# 1995 - Seamus Heaney

# 1994 - Kenzaburo Oe

# 1993 - Toni Morrison

# 1992 - Derek Walcott

# 1991 - Nadine Gordimer

# 1990 - Octavio Paz

# 1989 - Camilo José Cela

# 1988 - Naguib Mahfouz

# 1987 - Joseph Brodsky

# 1986 - Wole Soyinka

Only 1 American. Fair enough.

[Neimoidian 14]

Americans invest a lot to promote their talents and make them flourish. USA are the most influential country in the world right now, regardless if one find this influence positive or negative, thus if there is someone worthy recognition the whole world hears about him. However, I believe there is similar percentage of talents in every other country, but we hardly ever hear about them. We usually do when such a fellow travels to USA (like Borat for example ) and show his talent there.

Somehow, it has been quite frequent recently which might also be a sign that at the very moment USA feel their source of talents has been getting dry. Considering movie industry, there are more and more people coming every year from around the world to bring fresh ideas or new skills.

In the Hollywood's film music business alone, most of the new faces are foreigners. During last year Oscars the 3/5 nominiees were from the outside (Spain, Argentina and Italy) while the rest was JW alone with his 2 scores. This year it was the same (Argentina, Mexico, France) except the lack of JW . For 4 years in a row the AMERICAN (!) Academy Award has been given to nonUS composer - Shore (who is Canadian), Kaczmarek (Polish) and Santaolalla twice (Argentina)

[Morlock 11]

Literature Nobel Prizes from the last 2 decades:

# 2006 - Orhan Pamuk

# 2005 - Harold Pinter

# 2004 - Elfriede Jelinek

# 2003 - J. M. Coetzee

# 2002 - Imre Kertész

# 2001 - V. S. Naipaul

# 2000 - Gao Xingjian

# 1999 - Günter Grass

# 1998 - José Saramago

# 1997 - Dario Fo

# 1996 - Wislawa Szymborska

# 1995 - Seamus Heaney

# 1994 - Kenzaburo Oe

# 1993 - Toni Morrison

# 1992 - Derek Walcott

# 1991 - Nadine Gordimer

# 1990 - Octavio Paz

# 1989 - Camilo José Cela

# 1988 - Naguib Mahfouz

# 1987 - Joseph Brodsky

# 1986 - Wole Soyinka

Only 1 American. Fair enough.

While I don't agree with the topic header, I also don't think that the Nobel prize is a judge. The Literature Prize is one of the most controversial ones.

[scissorhands 16]

Literature Nobel Prizes from the last 2 decades:

# 2006 - Orhan Pamuk

# 2005 - Harold Pinter

# 2004 - Elfriede Jelinek

# 2003 - J. M. Coetzee

# 2002 - Imre Kertész

# 2001 - V. S. Naipaul

# 2000 - Gao Xingjian

# 1999 - Günter Grass

# 1998 - José Saramago

# 1997 - Dario Fo

# 1996 - Wislawa Szymborska

# 1995 - Seamus Heaney

# 1994 - Kenzaburo Oe

# 1993 - Toni Morrison

# 1992 - Derek Walcott

# 1991 - Nadine Gordimer

# 1990 - Octavio Paz

# 1989 - Camilo José Cela

# 1988 - Naguib Mahfouz

# 1987 - Joseph Brodsky

# 1986 - Wole Soyinka

Only 1 American. Fair enough.

While I don't agree with the topic header, I also don't think that the Nobel prize is a judge. The Literature Prize is one of the most controversial ones.

So are the Oscars, already mentioned in this thread.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

That's exactly my point. Most Argentine/Chinese/French and so on artists aren't known all over the world, precisely because they're not talented enough to be singled out. Don't get me wrong, of course there are many talented people all over the world, but it just seems to be that most of them come from the US. That's all I meant.

No, they're just far away enough for you to not have heard them. It's quite a bold statement to say "they aren't known all over the world" because you don't know them. It's quite a bolder statement to link their supposed non-notoriety to a lack of talent.

To say there are no unbelivably talented people in China is ridiculous.

I never said that. I just can't think of any.

There are many talented people in China, but you admit you don't know any. Doesn't that really answer your title question?

[Josh500 1,615]

No, they're just far away enough for you to not have heard them. It's quite a bold statement to say "they aren't known all over the world" because you don't know them. It's quite a bolder statement to link their supposed non-notoriety to a lack of talent.

It's not just me. Many people don't know them. And IMO that's because their achievements haven't been so great, compared to those of some Americans. Steven Spielberg, for example, is a household name. Not just Americans, people all over the world know him, even if they aren't that interested in motion pictures. And you can only achieve that status if a.) you are immensely talented and b.) you can market yourself well. And most people of that category seem to come the US, including the examples I listed.

Now this may be a bold statement, but all your talent isn't worth much if people don't get to know about it.

[robthehand 3]

It's not just me. Many people don't know them. And IMO that's because their achievements haven't been so great,

But how do you know, when you admit to knowing very little about their work?

Steven Spielberg, for example, is a household name. Not just Americans, people all over the world know him, even if they aren't that interested in motion pictures. And you can only achieve that status if a.) you are immensely talented and b.) you can market yourself well. And most people of that category seem to come the US, including the examples I listed.

You're now bringing marketing into it, which is far more important, but an entirely different matter. Talent and ability for self-promotion do not always go together. A lot of great artists don't know s*** about self-promotion, while a lot of relatively untalented artists are geniuses for publicity. Just because someone is a household name, doesn't mean that they're more talented than someone who the average Joe hasn't heard of. And just because someone isn't a household name certainly doesn't mean they're not talented at what they do.

Now this may be a bold statement, but all your talent isn't worth much if people don't get to know about it.

What do you mean, not worth much? Van Gogh sold one painting in his lifetime, and while he was alive virtually no-one had heard of him. Was his talent worthless?

[Marian Schedenig 8,239]

Yep, and she came to be known all over the world (mainly) because of an American film Memoirs of a Geisha. (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon was a China-Hong Kong-Taiwan-United States co-production.)

Which just emphasises what's been said above: There are many talented people around the world, it's just "easier" getting famous through US productions in many cases.

John Williams

Steven Spielberg

Stephen King

David Copperfield

Well, two of these four work in the film industry, which is mostly dominated by the US. Take Austria, there's rarely an Austrian movie which becomes big here, all the blockbusters come from the US. I'm sure in India (with the whole Bollywood phenomenon), they have plenty of Indian stars we haven't heard about (talented or not, I can't say, since I haven't head about them ).

One strong contender on the film field is the UK, and obviously, there are many great British actors, composers and directors, many of them my favourites.

As for authors, my list of favourites is topped by several British authors (Tolkien, Adams, Pratchett, Rowling among them). But for a large part, literature in German-speaking countries is dominated by German-writing authors, which I'm sure are very good as well - my choice of favourites for a large parts comes from my preference of novels written in English.

Moving on to the music field - again, the US has a certain dominance in the area of "popular music", but if you take a look at the really big artists and groups, you'll find an awful lot of them are British. A few Germans among the popular ones, rarely any Austrians - more so as of late (with an increasing demand of songs with German lyrics), but few of them are internationally sucessful, because outside the German-speaking countries, few people care for German lyrics.

And coming to classical music, most conductors and performers I currently admire seem to be from Europe. I don't so much know about composers, but taking a look at the "popular" concert composers from the US we know about on these boards, they're all working in the film field a lot, which brings us back to the first point.

Finally, don't forget that there are an awful lot of people in the US. You couldn't list internationally famous US artists and internationally famous Austrian artists and expect to come up with lists of equal length.

Marian - who in a list of favourite directors would name a lot of people before mentioning Spielberg (he's good, no doubt, and often very good, but his fame compared to other great directors mostly comes from his impact on popular culture).

[Ollie 1,064]

I think we market our talent and throw it out there more than other countries.

But to say most of the talented people come from America is wrong.

[Simon R. 10]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Hahahahaha.... oh man... you gotta realize that this is the kind of statement that makes us Europeans go.... "Americans"

[Romão 2,274]

Using the film industry as a an example of how much more talented the Americans are compared to the rest of the world is almost the same as saying most of the world's great Sumo wrestlers are Japanese.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

What kind of stupid question is this?

Seriously.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Wow can't remember the last time someone said something good about americans...thanks!!....Why are Swedish metal musicians so good?

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Now this may be a bold statement, but all your talent isn't worth much if people don't get to know about it.

Perhaps, but this is really no way to judge talent. More people know Britney Spears than Aaron Copland (both Americans, for the sake of argument). Does that make her more talented, or make her abilities more valid? If someone creates a work of art that appeals deeply to one hundred people then I feel it is more valid than, say, a pop record that sells a million copies simply because it's superficially entertaining for a few weeks. Your statement is bold, and rather disturbing. Please don't let the artistic value of of a work rest on its marketability. It's too bad that the music profession is now called the music "business" or the music "industry". Nothing good can come of this.

[nicholas 1]

There's a - very dated - saying which goes something like this:

Heaven has British policemen, French chefs and German engineers.

Hell has German policemen, British chefs and French engineers.

Not fair of course, but perhaps it touches on a universal truth that everyone's best at something...

I wonder what the equivalent would be with, say, Americans (ie the US), Canadians and, say, Mexicans?

[Lurker 5]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Hahahahaha.... oh man... you gotta realize that this is the kind of statement that makes us Europeans go.... "Americans"

The person you are quoting is from Austria.

Neil - wondering how this thread has stayed open

[John Crichton 4]

No good can come of this thread.

[Ollie 1,064]

What kind of stupid question is this?

Seriously.

Well you are the moderator, you have the power.......

[nightscape94 965]

I would like to reiterate what Neil already pointed out, which is that the member who started this thread is NOT American. <_<

Tim

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

What kind of stupid question is this?

Seriously.

Well you are the moderator, you have the power.......

I don't want to close this because I disagree with the opening post, but I'm getting mighty close.

[Simon R. 10]

I'm not saying there are no talented people outside of America (of course there are!), but the MOST TALENTED people seem to come from USA. And I'm not just thinking of JW. Don't you think that's true?

And if they don't come from USA, then it's likely they're from UK.

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Hahahahaha.... oh man... you gotta realize that this is the kind of statement that makes us Europeans go.... "Americans" <_<

The person you are quoting is from Austria.

Neil - wondering how this thread has stayed open

LOL - my bad I expected only an American would say this, apologies. But anyway, it's utter nonsense no matter who said it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

To support my statement, I can't think of any UNBELIEVABLY TALENTED people from, say, Argentine or Norway or China or France or Australia or Italy or the Netherlands or Switzerland or any country in Africa.

Is this a joke?

The main reason is of course that many many more people speak english then French or Dutch or Norwegian. And because we are constantly bombarded with the latest films, music, books and art from America, a country happy to sell us anything it can, we get exposed a lot more to their creative people then those in China, for instance.

There ya go, a serious answer to the silliest question posted here since Mirko stopped posting.

[Josh500 1,615]

People seem to get awfully worked up about this topic, but that was never my intention. Sorry if I offended anybody. And no, I'm not an American citizen (although my grandfather was). I'm Japanese. Anyway, the nationatlity of the topic starter shouldn't matter, anyway.

Moderator, you shouldn't consider closing down a thread just because you don't like the question or don't agree with the topic starter! What kind of reaction is that?

If you read my first post (rather than the topic title), you'll see that I said "Almost everybody I admire and whom I consider unbelievably talented NOWADAYS are Americans." I happen to admire many American artists, and I just wondered why there are so many good and well-known ones from that country. I never said there are no talented people in other countries. I just happened to notice that there seems to be many who hail from the US. What's wrong with asking myself why that is? It's like asking yourself "Why are so many supermodels from Brazil?" (Gisele Bündchen, Adriana Lima, Alessandria Ambrosio, to name a few). Of course there are supermodels from other countries as well, but Brazil seems to yield the most. Would that question get anybody worked up? I don't think so. Like I said in my first post, this is no matter of making Americans seem more talented (and thus better) than the rest of the world.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Josh, isn't it just because you are exposed much more to Americans? I know I am?

Of course a better question would be, why are so many fat people Americans?

[Josh500 1,615]

Josh, isn't it just because you are exposed much more to Americans?

Isn't the whole world, more or less?

Of course a better question would be, why are so many fat people Americans?

Why don't you start that topic? See how many people get worked up about that? <_<

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, Asian people are far less exposed to American culture then we Westerners are. Same goes for the Arab countries..

A better question would be:

Why are so many victims of school shootings Americans?

[Josh500 1,615]

No, Asian people are far less exposed to American culture then we Westerners are. Same goes for the Arab countries..

Well, I have ties to three countries (and continents): I'm a Japanese nationality with many relatives in Japan (Asia), I grew up in Austria (Europe), and have also many friends and somes relatives in the US (America). And you may be right, I'm exposed to American culture more than I am to any other. But I don't consider that a bad thing.

A better question would be:

Why are so many victims of school shootings Americans?

We don't need to discuss that. I can answer you with just a name: Charleton Heston. <_<

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And you may be right, I'm exposed to American culture more than I am to any other. But I don't consider that a bad thing.

It doesn't need to be. If you can filter out the enormous amount of crap they try to force upon us. (and I'm not even talking about their wars)

America IS a fascinating country, sometimes because genuinly great things come from there, other times because it's like a huge freak show, you just can't help but watch....

[Josh500 1,615]

It doesn't need to be. If you can filter out the enormous amount of crap they try to force upon us. (and I'm not even talking about their wars)

America IS a fascinating country, sometimes because genuinly great things come from there, other times because it's like a huge freak show, you just can't help but watch....

I don't think America is trying to force their culture upon us, we are just naturally drawn there because--yes, you're right--America is a fascinating country. So many people from so many diverse backgrounds, all trying to achieve something. But sometimes it is indeed like a freak show over there, but I don't consider that a bad thing, either (except perhaps for the war). It's like an accident you can't take your eyes away from...

[MrScratch 294]

There are a couple things that I'm surprised no one has mentioned:

Economics. The U.S. is the richest country in the world, Americans probably have more money to spend on entertainment than anyone else in the world. That's probably why most of the big successes in art & entertainment are American. Like someone else said though, just because something is popular or makes a lot of money doesn't mean that it has much artistic merit. So, in terms of pure money, America probably does drive the A&E market.

Artistic freedom. Consider how many artists fled to America in the late 1800s & early 1900s when many governments still imposed an oppressive rule. The Holocaust & Stalin alone forced many great artists and thinkers to come to the U.S. Mahler, one of my favorites, came to America because of rampant anit-Semitism in Eastern Europe.

Jeff

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So many people from so many diverse backgrounds, all trying to achieve something.

All trying to achieve something different.

Considering it's name, it's amazing just how un-United it really is.

[Josh500 1,615]

Considering it's name, it's amazing just how un-United it really is.

Yep. Almost as ununited as the European Union. <_<

[Morlock 11]

Considering it's name, it's amazing just how un-United it really is.

Yep. Almost as ununited as the European Union. <_<

Very few unions are as ununited as the European one.

[Red 75]

Why are so many talented people Americans?

'Cause we're just that awesome.

Rabbit--had to do it.

[Ollie 1,064]

Of course a better question would be, why are so many fat people Americans?

Because I love food.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Moderator, you shouldn't consider closing down a thread just because you don't like the question or don't agree with the topic starter! What kind of reaction is that?

Of course I'm not considering that. Didn't I mention that reason doesn't qualify for closing a thread?

I'd like a little less politics in here, though.