mrbellamy 6,334 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yep, I agree too. I would have been interested to get a new Williams fanfare, of course, but the silence was very effective. I do think it would be cool if Kennedy could commission something from him, though, even if they never end up using it for Star Wars specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,364 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I'm sure there was a plan at some point for Williams to write a fanfare, because they slapped that horrible edited one onto the digital versions of the other films. Why bother doing that if from Episode 7 onwards the logo would be silent?! My working theory is that John DID write a new fanfare, but it was the most awful thing he's ever written. Mickey Mouse called an emergency board meeting and all members agreed to seize every recording and every copy of sheet music, then incinerate all traces of evidence in a confidential location. This seems the most logical explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 On 21/12/2015 at 0:42 AM, KK. said: Is it me or is "Han and Leia" in Torn Apart? At 2:14, I keep hearing a twisted variation of that melody on the horns, probably to accompany the fall. wait wait wait. And arent the strings in the forefront quoting a passage from across the stars too???? Torn appart 2:14-2:20 Across the stars concert version: 4:01-4:21 (the melody is played twice) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Can anyone check wait i said??... i'm curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,137 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 On 2/7/2016 at 5:44 PM, Luke Skywalker said: wait wait wait. And arent the strings in the forefront quoting a passage from across the stars too???? Torn appart 2:14-2:20 Across the stars concert version: 4:01-4:21 (the melody is played twice) I can hear it yes, but my guess would be a coincidence. Though it would wonderfully make sense having it there; combining both the theme for his parents and the theme for his grand parents as he commits the terrible act. As the scene is clearly about Kylo and not Han. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 thanks for commenting yeah..it's probably a coincidence, kind of a 'lament music' Williamsism... but maybe we are counting other 'quotations' as intentional and are coincidences... For example, the talk of podracing in finn's confession...yeah it's more note by note blatant, but makes no sense thematically. leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Not if Finn is Qui-Gonn's grandson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said: makes no sense thematically. Its a discussion (like in Talk of Podracing and The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune), and its a confrontation (like in The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 So it's a "confrontational discussion" theme! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 i dont think that williams did it consciously... but who knows, maybe Williams throws in these small snippets in a new scroe from a franchise as to make the audience feel confortable and made them think "hey this sounds like a star wars score"... And not alienate them with direct re-recordings.. like in ROTS, KOTCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted February 9, 2016 Author Share Posted February 9, 2016 Also its appearance in Talk of Podracing play when Qui-Gon's "cover is blown" on being a Jedi Knight, just like it plays in TFA when Finn reveals that he was a Stormtrooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 it's a strech. Kind of intrincate LOTR thematical connection....but unneeded... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 bloodboal and faleel...you could post what you think of the 'across the stars' reference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: I think it's bullshit. I knew you would post exactly those words. amazing! or maybe not. Just predictable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, BloodBoal said: I think it's bullshit. I think you're a dickhead for posting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 3 hours ago, Faleel said: Its a discussion (like in Talk of Podracing and The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune), and its a confrontation (like in The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune) Ah, so it's JW's discussion style of music. Because it is so close to the music we hear in TPM, I feel it is not one of the numerous musical coincidences that do exist elsewhere in SW. Maybe JW just wanted a small musical callback to the PT without any thematic link and felt that music fit the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,137 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 Lincoln should have been a 2 hour suite of his 'Discussion Theme.' artguy360 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 On 7/2/2016 at 6:44 PM, Luke Skywalker said: wait wait wait. And arent the strings in the forefront quoting a passage from across the stars too???? Torn appart 2:14-2:20 Across the stars concert version: 4:01-4:21 (the melody is played twice) OK, i think this time i got it. The across the stars reference is a coincidence. But the 'lament' melody played in "torn appart" is a reprise of the 'lament' played in "The Starkiller" track! Makes sense, as williams did the same in ROTS with Order 66 and anakin's attack to padme. So what do you think now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 A huge thanks to Faleel for completing this mammoth amount of work - a fantastic resource that will serve everyone very well! Incanus and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Ludwig said: A huge thanks to Faleel for completing this mammoth amount of work - a fantastic resource that will serve everyone very well! Ditto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I feel a little ignored I dont want to be an attention whore but has anyone checked what i said two posts above? If true...the theme should be included in the list... I mean... everytime someone has posted some thematical conecction in this thread..it's been discussed... i have had to beg you to notice mine... Ok, hissy fit off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 They tend to ignore people who don't have proper music/academic credentials. Don't take it personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 thanks for the support, hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Your post was absolutely right - Williams reprised the Starkiller lament material in "Torn Apart", perhaps with a bit of Han and Leia's love theme subtly included, but no "Across the Stars", although there is some similarity. No offense, but the lack of responses was probably just because no one had anything to say...the return of that material in "Torn Apart" is pretty blatant, haha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 What Steef says about ignoring people without credentials is simply not true - certainly not for me. I saw this but haven't had time to devote to it. I thought someone else would comment, but didn't probably because of what Data said. I agree with Data - it's similar to Across the Stars, but not a reference. You'll notice what's missing is the drop down of a 6th (the fourth note of the motif you cite from Across the Stars). Without that, it's really not the same figure since that's such a memorable part of that motif. For motifs (or dare I say themes), there should be enough of a resemblance to say "yes, that's definitely the same thing" rather than, "well maybe". Motifs are a bit like names - you can recognize them if they're characteristic portions are retained, like how "Liz" and "Beth" are both characteristic parts of "Elizabeth". But "Eli" not so much since that could be part of several other names. The Torn Apart motif strikes me as more of an "Eli" rather than a "Liz". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I was half joking about being ignored, no offense taken, if anyone was wondering BTW, yes now i think the across the stars thing was not an intentional reference, it's just a passing similaritie, but I didnt knew the starkiller 'lament' reprise was known, since it does not appear in faleel's list (the track 'starkiller' is absent from the list)... Maybe it was mentioned in another thread (the actual OST thread) and i had not read it... (sorry ) On 16/12/2015 at 2:21 AM, Faleel said: THE PHANTOM MENACE The Ultimate Edition (2 CD's) Darth Sidious and Darth Maul 0:25 Dark Side? ATTACK OF THE CLONESConfrontation with Count Dooku and Finale 0:51 Dark Side Motif (Prequels) REVENGE OF THE SITH Padme's Ruminations 1:36 Dark Side Motif (From TPM and AOTC) I mentioned years ago that that little fanfare in TPM could be the same dark side motif. People was not convinced at the time, but i'm glad i'm not alone On 16/12/2015 at 2:21 AM, Faleel said: The phantom Menace OST The Funeral of Qui-Gon 0:06 Jedi Funeral 0:26 The Force Theme 0:34 Jedi Funeral Return of the Jedi SE The Emperor Arrives / The Death of Yoda / Obi-Wan's Revelation 7:04 Yoda's Theme 7:14 'Jedi funeral'? 7:33 The Force Theme The Battle of Endor II (Leia Is Wounded / The Duel Begins / Overtaking the Bunker / The Dark Side Beckons / The Emperor's Death) 3:49 The Dark Side 5:03 'Jedi Funeral'? 5:37 The Force Theme What about this? I think Yoda's death has a thematical connection with the climax of dark side beckons... And could Williams have based Qui-gon's funeral on Yoda's death? The similarity is further on the instrumental only version in Padme's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 11 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said: I feel a little ignored I dont want to be an attention whore but has anyone checked what i said two posts above? If true...the theme should be included in the list... I mean... everytime someone has posted some thematical conecction in this thread..it's been discussed... i have had to beg you to notice mine... Ok, hissy fit off. Yes the elegy material from Star Killer is quoted in passing in Torn Apart. To me there is definitely a connection between that material and Kylo Ren. And yes I noticed your comments Manuel! You are still relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,651 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 So what is Kylo Ren's "hesitant motif" again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 You can hear it several times right before his main theme in the end credits. It's that short melody that starts by repeating the same note several times and then descends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,651 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Datameister said: You can hear it several times right before his main theme in the end credits. It's that short melody that starts by repeating the same note several times and then descends. That one? I don't hear much hesitance in there. More a building sense of dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,723 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 22 minutes ago, Mr. Big said: That one? I don't hear much hesitance in there. More a building sense of dread. Williams mentioned that this theme describes Kylo Ren's conflicting emotions and inner turmoil. He is constantly pulled by his need to be a worthy successor to Darth Vader and his fear that he won't live up to him and his inner struggle between the light and dark. It is an angry, frustrated could one say tortured side of the character but the simple passage takes many orchestrational guises to reflect his mood although it mostly remains in the bottom registers of the ensemble. I think it compliment's Kylo's exclamatory fanfare very nicely but with a tinge of tragedy, all captured quite succinctly by this simple figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,651 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 25 minutes ago, Incanus said: Williams mentioned that this theme describes Kylo Ren's conflicting emotions and inner turmoil. He is constantly pulled by his need to be a worthy successor to Darth Vader and his fear that he won't live up to him and his inner struggle between the light and dark. It is an angry, frustrated could one say tortured side of the character but the simple passage takes many orchestrational guises to reflect his mood although it mostly remains in the bottom registers of the ensemble. I think it compliment's Kylo's exclamatory fanfare very nicely but with a tinge of tragedy, all captured quite succinctly by this simple figure. Any time stamps for some of the more subtle moments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,137 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 4 hours ago, Mr. Big said: Any time stamps for some of the more subtle moments? 3:44 - 4:03 in Han and Leia. I also hear it at 0:00 - 0:20 in Track 6 of the FYC album. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Mr. Big said: That one? I don't hear much hesitance in there. More a building sense of dread. Yeah, "hesitant" isn't the word I would have chosen, either. I guess I can hear it more in the quieter statements, for instance in "Han and Leia" or near the end of the FYC's "Finn's Trek", but to me it seems to best represent Ben's turn to the dark side - it's about the tragic transformation of this character, whereas his main theme is more of the exclamatory "I'm a bad guy!" sort of thing. Incidentally, one time I accidentally put words to that main theme and now I can't help hearing them every time: "I'm Kylo Ren, bitch...I'm Kylo Ren." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,137 Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I can't stop thinking that the tragic theme in 'Starkiller' and it's reprisal in 'Torn Apart' is actually Kylo Ren's tragic theme. I keep hearing Ren's tragic theme in the Starkiller Piece. They both descend of course but they sound like they are meant to be the same. It makes sense because both scenes are about Ren. He is watching the Starkiller base as it fires the weapon, and in its reprisal for when he fully turns to the dark side on the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Sorry - it'd make sense, but it's just not there in the music. Melodically, harmonically, and even rhythmically, they just aren't the same. The only thing they have in common is the fact that the melody moves down a semitone at least once in each...but that also describes the Raiders March and any number of other melodies. leeallen01 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I remember when TFA soundtrack first released a lot of people felt The Resistance March was almost more fitting for a bad guy march. While I disagree, it definitely has a determination and maybe even harshness to it. I think it's interesting because in his radio interview JW describes it as the theme for "a radical group that wants to bring the jedi back to power." Maybe that's why he gave it the characterization that he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,651 Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 29 minutes ago, artguy360 said: I remember when TFA soundtrack first released a lot of people felt The Resistance March was almost more fitting for a bad guy march. While I disagree, it definitely has a determination and maybe even harshness to it. I think it's interesting because in his radio interview JW describes it as the theme for "a radical group that wants to bring the jedi back to power." Maybe that's why he gave it the characterization that he did. I never thought it sounded like a bad guy March. It sounds militaristic and pompous but never villainous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,073 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Doesn't sound villainous to me, but it's definitely different from Williams' usual "good guy" music. And it's not that far off from something like the Nazi march from TLC, which in that context did sound outright villainous. Regardless, I really like it and I think it suits the film well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artguy360 1,844 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 Yeah I don't think it's villainous but it has a different kind of edge to it and I think that's the radical element that JW wanted to give the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,137 Posted February 14, 2016 Share Posted February 14, 2016 The opening notes of the Resistance March are basically the same as his Nazi themes' opening notes, (heard at 0:50 in 'Brother Of The Crucifrom Sword') so I can't help but hear a slight villainy in there, but as the Resistance March continues up the notes and becomes more of a fanfare on the high brass, it is immediately heroic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Well you can also hear some Trade Federation too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,402 Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Added an additional appearance of a theme under "The Moisture Farm": Quote 1:45 Dies Irae (Fate Motif?) On 2/18/2016 at 5:01 AM, Stefancos said: Where? March of the Resistance: 0:06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 On 11/2/2016 at 9:22 PM, Luke Skywalker said: I was half joking about being ignored, no offense taken, if anyone was wondering BTW, yes now i think the across the stars thing was not an intentional reference, it's just a passing similaritie, but I didnt knew the starkiller 'lament' reprise was known, since it does not appear in faleel's list (the track 'starkiller' is absent from the list)... Maybe it was mentioned in another thread (the actual OST thread) and i had not read it... (sorry ) I mentioned years ago that that little fanfare in TPM could be the same dark side motif. People was not convinced at the time, but i'm glad i'm not alone What about this? I think Yoda's death has a thematical connection with the climax of dark side beckons... And could Williams have based Qui-gon's funeral on Yoda's death? The similarity is further on the instrumental only version in Padme's death. I think this passed out of everyone's radar... again (why my original message is not fully quoted? strange...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 You noticed only now that when quoting a message, thise erases the quotes that were in that message? It's one of the most annoying features of the new forum! As for your question... I'll let someone else answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,467 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Its a very stupid "feature". I mean, I can see why some boards would want it, but I wish it was an option you could turn on or off if you do want it! That's the most annoying thing about this board upgrade; The removed a lot of options and force a lot of things to be "their way". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,805 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 damn...i hoped it wass my fault about having incorrect settings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 The opening post is not supposed to be complete yet, is it? There's definitely at least one thematic statement still missing for The Force Awakens (maybe more): Rey Meets BB-8 01:09 Resistance March (matches with the melody at 01:45 in March of the Resistance) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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