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Blanche Hudson

Hans Zimmer and Tom Holkenborg's Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

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This is obviously the result of poor leadership and I think that the situations calls for the immediate dismissal of Jason and Incanus as moderators!

 

I say Bloodboal and KK should take over!

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26 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

I say Bloodboal and KK should take over!

 

That could be interesting...depending on who manages to ban the other first.

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No kidding. I put on my head phones. And clicked play on the first track and I had the good sense to keep the volume at middle and.... my ear drums almost burst. Dear god. I dove for the volume control in self protection and reduced it to 5% - where it shall stay. 

 

Is this how it will sound in the theaters too?

 

--

 

Listening to the first track... my impression... that's a lot of drums.

 

Listening to the second track... something.... from MOS was reprised and my heart sank. I was like, "Not this shit again."

 

Listened to a couple of other tracks and the general feeling is... this is a truly big orchestral score.... scored for an orchestra of 200 drum players and ... one solo voice?

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Having just wrapped up the whole thing. It has some nice moments. The Superman stuff, as scarce as it is, are the highlights. The Batman material has some occaisonally interesting tidbits, but is mostly that deafening pounding rhythm that's as generic as anything you hear from your usual trailer music. There was a pretty nice choral passage which I believe Whitacre had a hand in arranging/writing.

 

4 minutes ago, Sharky said:

I'm liking the prepared piano in The Red Capes are Coming.

 

Yeah, me too (especially the beginning), even though we've heard variations of that stuff before in Zimmer's score.

 

There are some neat, sampled/electronica bits scattered in the action material, but its sometimes hard to discern in all the noise.

 

The solo violin seems like an undeveloped idea that just got snuck in there.

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Is there really a Batman "theme" though? Anybody latch on to one yet?

 

The Superman "theme" from MOS ZERO development. Heard it once, heard it all. Its still stated on solo piano exactly the same way. If that is all how the theme can be stated, speaks to its simple-minded construction.

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6 minutes ago, Sharky said:

The beginning of Must There Be a Superman sounds Whitacrish to me, but 1:15-30 must be one of most painful 15 seconds of any film score in recent memory. Definitely Junkie and his arsenal of Doepfer modules.

 

Yes. One run-through of this album has reduced my hearing by at least 25%...

 

2:05 in "This is My World" is the passage I was referring to. 2:43 is classic Whitacre.

 

4 minutes ago, TheUlyssesian said:

Is there really a Batman "theme" though? Anybody latch on to one yet?

 

It's that deafening pounding rhythm + accompaniment, that opens up the album.

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There's absolutely a Batman theme, and if you've been listening well to samples even before this leak, you're familiar with it.

 

2 hours ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The Superman "theme" from MOS ZERO development. Heard it once, heard it all. Its still stated on solo piano exactly the same way. If that is all how the theme can be stated, speaks to its simple-minded construction.

 

Why does a theme need to develop?  That's no longer a requirement in the philosophy of film music, as far as I know.  There are different ways of doing things.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

There's absolutely a Batman theme, and if you've been listening well to samples even before this leak, you're familiar with it.

 

 

Why does a theme need to develop?  That's no longer a requirement in the philosophy of film music, as far as I know.  There are different ways of doing things.

 

 

 

If not you could practically write a 5  minute suite and track the entire movie if it all has to sound the same. 

Movies are narratives with highs and lows and crescendos. Good music, it could be argued, would atleast seek in theory to support that experience with its own ebbs and flows.

 

And not to get academic, but its something worthier for a thoughtful (non hack) composer to write. Otherwise its so un-engaging to the composer himself, forget the listener.

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Whatever suits the film is "worthy" to write - that doesn't, or shouldn't, have anything to do with complexity.  If it works, it works.

 

Are you a fan of the films of Kubrick or Malick?  Are you aware of their use of music as a more or less static framing device rather than a mirror of the dramatic arc of the film, and how they use entire unchanging pieces as large thematic blocks themselves?  Are you also aware of how Zimmer's approach has often echoed this, especially after working with Malick himself and more recently the similarly inclined Nolan? 

 

Perhaps if you approached this music with this in mind, rather than looking for more familiar approaches as in the music that you're more used to and enjoy more, you'd at least find less to dislike, if not necessarily to actively like.

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11 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Why does a theme need to develop?  That's no longer a requirement in the philosophy of film music, as far as I know.  There are different ways of doing things.

 

 

 

What many people call development is actually variation.

Stating a theme in a different fashion isn't the same as development. Which in my mind suggest taking a theme on a linear journey, according to a preconceived idea.

 

Thematic development isn't very useful in film music. Thematic variation is.

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I have listened to the album twice and I have mixed feelings about it. First off, the Batman theme is not very good. The repetitive Bam Bam Bam Bam sounds ridiculous, something you'd hear in a trailer for well, Batman v Superman or Transformers. The actual theme that you barely hear through the percussion and the loudness, is pretty cool. I like how it's played on cello in the beginning of the Batman Suite and how the trumpet motif and the soft brass comes in after a while. Then it gets killed by the Bam Bam Bam Bam...

 

The Superman material is the best. It's the most emotional and nice music on the album. I wish the main theme that you hear in the end of MOS would be in this with a new variation but who knows, maybe it's in the movie.

 

The Lex Luthor theme which plays in "The Red Capes Are Coming" is good. I hear some Holmes and Pirates in there but all in all it's really a refreshing theme for a bad guy in this kind of movie. The almost vivaldiesque violin is underused but has a nice effect, especially in track 13. I hope it'll be used more in the movie. 

 

As for the sound design and the noise, it's pretty bland and deafening. Most of the action cues and the atmospheric cues are filled with sound effects and weird noises. It might be the compressing, but it doesn't sound good at all. There are a few good action tracks, like "Their War Here" and "Is She With You" but other than that everything is early audible because of the sound design. You can clearly hear who was responsible for the action and the more emotional things. 

 

All in all, it's not as good as MOS, but I hope it works in the movie. 

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1 minute ago, Mr. Who said:

All in all, it's not as good as MOS,

 

How can you possibly determine that after a few listens and without having seen the film or knowing what was not released?

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Just now, Stefancos said:

 

How can you possibly determine that after a few listens and without having seen the film or knowing what was not released?

I'm judging the album, as that's what I've got for comparison right now. Maybe after having seen the movie next week I'll have changed my mind.

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48 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Whatever suits the film is "worthy" to write - that doesn't, or shouldn't, have anything to do with complexity.  If it works, it works.

 

Are you a fan of the films of Kubrick or Malick?  Are you aware of their use of music as a more or less static framing device rather than a mirror of the dramatic arc of the film, and how they use entire unchanging pieces as large thematic blocks themselves?  Are you also aware of how Zimmer's approach has often echoed this, especially after working with Malick himself and more recently the similarly inclined Nolan? 

 

Perhaps if you approached this music with this in mind, rather than looking for more familiar approaches as in the music that you're more used to and enjoy more, you'd at least find less to dislike, if not necessarily to actively like.

 

Neither Kubrick or Malick really used (or in Malick's case) use "normally" composed film scores. They usually employe(d) pre-existing music to great effect but that's not what we are talking about right.

 

Anyways this seems like an extremely circular argument that seems like will further lead us into a discussion of semantics and specifics terms (like theme development and theme variation which albeit different would lead you to think that what I meant in my post would have been adequately apparent). Such an engagement in most cases is fruitless and just for the sake of it. So let's just end with my own subjective opinion finding music like BvS thoughtless, unimaginative and tiresome and your own subjective opinion find it enjoyable and stimulating.

 

 

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1 minute ago, TheUlyssesian said:

The Superman "theme" from MOS ZERO development. Heard it once, heard it all. Its still stated on solo piano exactly the same way. If that is all how the theme can be stated, speaks to its simple-minded construction.

 

That's really the Clark Kent theme, associated with his wholesome Midwestern upbringing and his essential humanity--explaining the quasi-gospel harmonisation.

 

There's a number themes, motifs, cells and chords from MOS that carried over and developed, usually rotated in a cyclic pattern. The names are my own.

 

Clark Kent - 0:00-1:04 in Day of the Dead. 4:31-5:29 in This is My World, 3:30-4:30 in Men Are Still Gods

Love - 3:34-4:07 in Is She With You?

Krypton Cluster - 1:07-37 in Day of the Dead, 5:28-38 in This is My World, 0:00-22 in Men Are Still Gods, 3:27 to the end in Blood of My Blood, 3:02 to the end in May I Help You, Mr. Wayne?

Kal El - 1:13-37 in Day of the Dead, 0:58-1:17, 0:58-1:17 in Problems Up Here, 2:24-2:48, 3:08-20 and 06:38-58 in Black and Blue, 3:13-25 and 4:05 to the end in Blood of My Blood,

Semitone Waver - 2:04-34 in Tuesday, 2:23-48 and 6:34-7:07 in Black and Blue, 03:39 to the end in Blood of My Blood

Superman in Ascent - 1:37-58 in Day of the Dead, 5:38-6:01 in This is My World, 0:22-42 in Men Are Still Gods,

Superman's Heroics - 6:01 to the end in This is My World, 0:42-1:04 in Men Are Still Gods

Superman in Peril - 1:58 to the end in Day of the Dead

Lara's Lullaby - 2:57-3:15 in Problems Up Here

Metropolis Threnody 0:31-1:58 in This is My World

Zod B Ostinato - 1:28-2:22 in Their War Here, 3:08-20 in Black and Blue

Zod Impeded - 2:04-22 in Their War Here

Zod Passacaglia - 1:43-49 and 3:28 to the end in Their War Here

Zod's Wrath - 1:21-28 and 2:34-42 in Their War Here and 3:26-43 and 4:10-13 in Black and Blue

 

In it's standard form, Superman in Ascent is capped by Superman's Heroics (Ab/Eb > F in block voicing)--which combines with the preceding Krypton Cluster and Kal El to form the "Superman Cycle", heard in significant moments throughout MOS. In Day of the Dead for example, it's replaced by Superman in Peril, its minor moded flip side. Generally, the Kal El and the Krypton Cluster are connected the more "alien" side to Supes, neither threatening nor benign.

 

Zod's Wrath represents a single sonority and its derived harmonies--Cm with an added ninth and/or flat sixth.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheUlyssesian said:

 

Neither Kubrick or Malick really used (or in Malick's case) use "normally" composed film scores. They usually employe(d) pre-existing music to great effect but that's not what we are talking about right.

 

That is precisely what we're talking about though - the same approach to the use of music.  Whether it's composed for the film or taken from existing sources makes no difference.  It is a legitimate approach with much precedent.

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Hey @Jay, on this second page of the thread, this

 

1NO3TB9.png

 

keeps showing up for me... but I have no message?  And it doesn't come up anywhere else, only on this page.  Any idea what that's about?

 

When I click on it, it tells me I don't have permission to view it or something and I get error code 2C137/2

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3 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Hey @Jay, on this second page of the thread, this

 

1NO3TB9.png

 

keeps showing up for me... but I have no message?  And it doesn't come up anywhere else, only on this page.  Any idea what that's about?

 

When I click on it, it tells me I don't have permission to view it or something and I get error code 2C137/2

Same here.  

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