Hans Zimmer's Man Of Steel

[crocodile 9,724]

The score is extremely boring on CD.

Chaac doesn't seem to enjoy a whole lot of things, I noticed.

I enjoy a lot of things but nobody pays attention when I say so

Yes, but things you enjoy often have nothing to do with neither film, nor film music. That's what I meant.

Karol

[Brónach 1,330]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mEQc4q22E

BABADUM BABADUM

[Quintus 6,499]

A love of making little animals out of pipe cleaners isn't really compatible with film and music talk.

[Brónach 1,330]

The score is extremely boring on CD.

Chaac doesn't seem to enjoy a whole lot of things, I noticed.

I enjoy a lot of things but nobody pays attention when I say so

Yes, but things you enjoy often have nothing to do with neither film, nor film music. That's what I meant.

Maybe I should be a bit more outspoken on this regard.

[Quintus 6,499]

Yes you should!

[crocodile 9,724]

You shall speak your mind from now on! Be a man!

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,260]

As I said, what I've heard of the percussion during the movie is anything but fresh. It's generic hammering ad infinitum.

I know, in the movie. That's why I told you to listen to the album. It's whatever Lee, I still love you.

[KK 3,313]

Is the percussion fresh? Yes. The rest of the score? No. But then again he never said such a thing.

The percussion isn't fresh. its the same rhythms we've heard all throughout his career, augmented by more drummers.

[Quintus 6,499]

I'm going to listen to the album, but I really doubt the drums sections will make much of an impression on me. Just being honest here Koray!

[Brónach 1,330]

You shall speak your mind from now on!

Point taken then.

On Man of Steel: I've been listening to Sent Here for A Reason on a loop for 20 minutes. I like how the piano melody drops, it feels like the prelude of something very grand, and even though it never comes I like that detail. The effect at 1:50 sounds really really cool to me, the combination between the subdued bass glissando and the independent pseudo-atonal ambiance, leading again into the piano proto-melody-drop. I wonder what this idea could have become.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Is the percussion fresh? Yes. The rest of the score? No. But then again he never said such a thing.

The percussion isn't fresh. its the same rhythms we've heard all throughout his career, augmented by more drummers.

I feel those are two separate conversations though. We discussed this a little bit before. I don't argue that the composition is new or fresh or innovative, however you want to put it. I'm speaking specifically about the utilization of the drum circle and how it adds more depth and nuances to the percussion. How Zimmer makes it the highlight of the action material rather than the supporting rhythm underneath.

I'm going to listen to the album, but I really doubt the drums sections will make much of an impression on me. Just being honest here Koray!

I know, it's probably just my Zimmer love bleeding through. I really like the theme and added layers to the percussion. The score as a whole doesn't do much for me though. To add more balance to FFM's 5 star rating, personally I'd give it a 2.5 or 3.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Is the percussion fresh? Yes. The rest of the score? No. But then again he never said such a thing.

As I said, what I've heard of the percussion during the movie is anything but fresh. It's generic hammering ad infinitum.

I know, in the movie. That's why I told you to listen to the album. It's whatever Lee, I still love you.

Movie and album don't make a difference. If one of them has something over the other, then the movie has the advantage that it can distract you from the music; on album, it's just boring.

Whether the percussion is fresh or not is completely irrelevant.

The same old brainwacking rhythms don't get any fresher just because Zimmer managed to give them a slightly sharper sound quality by amassing a dozen drummers. As with almost everything else, the principle applies that it doesn't matter whether you have the most amazing orchestra and the most amazing sound engineer if you have become a freaking lazy and boring composer.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Yes we all know you hate Zimmer. You're hardly the most reliable opinion on his music.

[crocodile 9,724]

I don't think the album is boring at all - the first disc (the main music) passes in no time. Zimmer constructs interesting albums out of his film work and often they work better this way. It's doesn't need to be my cup of tea to enjoy it on some level. Sure, it's a pity we didn't get a rousing dense orchestra for the film. But come on, it's far from disaster. I get a much better understanding of the film's intentions from listening to it. Hans tried to avoid a traditional sound and I've got to appreciate that he makes some sort of effort to give me something that remotely even serves the concept.

Having said that, I really dislike the action bits.

Karol

[Richard P 5,303]

Yes we all know you hate Zimmer. You're hardly the most reliable opinion on his music.

And you are?

I like the trailer cue, but absolutely nothing, anywhere in the score was interesting to me.

[hornist 1,261]

As with almost everything else, the principle applies that it doesn't matter whether you have the most amazing orchestra and the most amazing sound engineer if you have become a freaking lazy and boring composer.

Hey I like gk

I started to believe hansu is a great music director and agitator but he didn't write a single note of The Prince of Egypt, which I love.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Yes we all know you hate Zimmer. You're hardly the most reliable opinion on his music.

And you are?

I like the trailer cue, but absolutely nothing, anywhere in the score was interesting to me.

More so than anyone here, based mostly on the fact that I've listened to every one of his scores.

[Jay 46,244]

Including he Last Days, Two Deaths, and Chill Factor?

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Of what's available of them. Haven't seen the films. There's a boot of The Last Days out there but I'm not sure how much of the score it is. From what I know there's only a few cues from Two Deaths and around 25 minutes of Chill Factor.

[Brónach 1,330]

I started to believe hansu is a great music director and agitator but he didn't write a single note of The Prince of Egypt, which I love.

He didn't?

Does anyone have a complete cue list of The Prince of Egypt with composers indicated on the side?

[Naïve Old Fart 13,025]

They're the best drum hitters in the world!

...along with Peter Erskine, Steve Gadd, Bernard Purdie, Neil Peart, Phil Collins, Jerry Marotta, Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, Ginger Baker, Moon, Bonzo...

The percussion on, say, the "big-top" sequences in "Batman Forever", were far more effective, and I feel that Zimmer recruited the guys just to say that he had them all playing on one of his scores. Why not?! If I had the chance, I'd do exactly the same thing!

[publicist 4,650]

Why not?! If I had the chance, I'd do exactly the same thing!

I hope you would write much better parts for them.

[Naïve Old Fart 13,025]

Ha,ha,ha! Can't read music (well I can, but only loosely, and only in the bass clef). I would not presume to think that I could do a better job of composing percussion parts than a professional composer, but, you are right, they do not seem to be too taxing.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

I started to believe hansu is a great music director and agitator but he didn't write a single note of The Prince of Egypt, which I love.

He didn't?

Does anyone have a complete cue list of The Prince of Egypt with composers indicated on the side?

You believe Pasi? Lol

[hornist 1,261]

Ok, bad wording from my side but the idea is, I can't believe it's the same hansu who did MOS and POE...

Really just can't.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Ha,ha,ha! Can't read music (well I can, but only loosely, and only in the bass clef). I would not presume to think that I could do a better job of composing percussion parts than a professional composer, but, you are right, they do not seem to be too taxing.

For Zimmer's music, the bass clef is all you need.

By the way, is it just my impression or did Zimmer's music take a considerable drop closer to the floor soon after he announced he would retreat for a long while for concerts and such, and then didn't?

[crocodile 9,724]

Ok, bad wording from my side but the idea is, I can't believe it's the same hansu who did MOS and POE...

Really just can't.

He did change. I've been listening to some old action score he's done in the 90's recently. Take this track from The Peacemaker for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5daoMA7YkY

It is music from the opening sequence of the film (at least most of it). It might not be the most sophisticated or original writing, certainly not in academia kind of way, but there is a clear dramatic arc and the music supports the narrative in an very effective way. I can remember the scene very well just by listening to music. Maybe a bit cliche by today's standards, but, in my opinion, it's one of the best tracks Zimmer has ever written.

Karol

[KK 3,313]

The music may sound cheesy today and a bit dated, but good Lord, I would love to hear Zimmer writing like that today. Back when he actually wrote themes and entertaining action material! The Peacemaker is a very enjoyable score largely brought down by the poor, dated mixing of synths.

It's a pity, Zimmer's sound took the direction it did. The Peacemaker actually sounds like a film score, unlike the sludge he churns out today. I think his action stuff took the biggest hit.

It now makes me sad to realize that the guy who used to write fun stuff like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9f4oJWIOho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_T8KlY3Tqs

...now writes crap like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14-SUTSW7NQ

I was recently introduced to this Zimmer discovery. It's clear what this piece would later inspire, but it blew my mind that Zimmer wrote something as dynamic and organically satisfying as this back in the 80s! Maybe I've just too used to modern Zimmer. I think I'll have to visit some of my old Zimmer favourites.

Zimmer just needs different assignments. Dramas or ethnic-dramas of a smaller scale where he can exercise the intelligence he employed for films like "Frost/Nixon".

[gkgyver 1,647]

No, Zimmer needs a month or two in solitary confinement, just with a stash of paper and a piano, just to realise what music and making music means again.

One doesn't have to go as far back as the 80s or 90s to find better Zimmer. I listened to DaVinci Code again yesterday, all of it, and that was so considerably better than anything he has produced since then. There are even woodwinds! And nice themes that don't resemble power anthems!

[KK 3,313]

The Da Vinci Code is one of Zimmer's finest scores. It's what started me into physically collecting film scores actually

[gkgyver 1,647]

It's the only Zimmer score in which I would say Zimmer captured something that is greater than the sum of its parts-

[Hook1991 10]

So if we own the deluxe edition of Man of Steel it's around an hour and 57 mins long. Is there any film music missing?? Just wondering?

[Naïve Old Fart 13,025]

There is a long track (about 25mins) on disc 2, that suggests that it is made up of Zimmer's sketches for the score, and not final completed pieces.

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

I got the 2-CD set yesterday. Nice main theme that probably belongs in a different movie or maybe even an "x-treme" sports documentary, but the rest of the underscore has no founded narrative flow that can keep one's interest. That is unless you really enjoy hearing your subwoofer rumble for about 40 minutes.

I understand the need to give this film its own identity and anything resembling John Williams would have been inappropriate for that direction, but in an ironic twist in Synder and Nolan's effort to give create that identity through the music, they hired a composer who made the score sound like every other score of a similar style in modern times. The very same composer who was responsible for that trend.

[Quintus 6,499]

Spot on.

[Romão 2,473]

The Da Vinci Code is one of Zimmer's finest scores. It's what started me into physically collecting film scores actually

Indeed. That and his sort of sister score for Hannibal

[Jill Sandwich 11,166]

I rather liked Angels and Demons more than The Da Vinci Code. It felt bolder, denser and even maybe less typically Zimmer-like.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 12,388]

The Da Vinci Code is one of Zimmer's finest scores. It's what started me into physically collecting film scores actually

Indeed. That and his sort of sister score for Hannibal

Love Hannibal

[Koray Savas 2,260]

The Da Vinci Code is one of Zimmer's finest scores. It's what started me into physically collecting film scores actually

Indeed. That and his sort of sister score for Hannibal

The Ring, Hannibal, and The Da Vinci Code are like an odd trilogy of sorts. Not just simply because they all use a similar melodic phrase, but just the soundscape and atmosphere these scores evoke, they're very beautiful.

[Richard P 5,303]

I do like the rather mature and sophisticated sound of Da Vinci Code, and I haven't seen the film, which gives more credit to the music.

[gkgyver 1,647]

The score helps the film tremendously. Angels & Demons is fine, but lacks soul.

[KK 3,313]

Angels and Demons is actually quite enjoyable. The choral work in 160 BPM is riveting, and although Joshua Bell's contributions were minimal (sadly underused), his playing certainly did add to the beauty aspect. But the score as a whole lacks the wonder, beauty and sophistication of The Da Vinci Code.

[hornist 1,261]

Lol! A review of MoS in the biggest newspaper in Finland:

"...the horribly pompous music is made by the number one master of terrible filmmusic, Hanz Zimmer. They rather should have used the brilliant music of JOhn Williams from the 1978 film."

Of course the writer is wrong.

[TheUlyssesian 2,745]

Saw the film again. The best moment of scoring in the film, a bit where the score actually syncs up with the visuals is 57 seconds into the below clip.

The reason I absolutely love Williams and Giacchino (baby Williams) is because how beautifully their score syncs up with the visuals. When a burst of music is perfectly timed to a cut or an action, it really reaches a confluence of music and images that is thrilling beyond all measure. Zimmer never does that, he makes just blanket sounds which are applied like wall-paper to the visuals, no synching up at all. Syncing up is very hard to do, you have to write very intricately, blanket sounds are just lazy.

But anyways in the afore-mentioned moment, a sync up does happen and it is one of the most epic moments in the film. Its when Clark rushes to holds up the falling iron structure, Zimmer's trademark BBRRAAAMMMM kicks on and for once it provides a thrilling accent to the visuals. The drums suddenly turn into this deep and masculine BBRRAAMMMM which is appropriate given the its a very masculine moment as we see the first demonstration of Superman's physical prowess. Really great moment - drew applause from my audience.

Rest is a washout. Think of that edit from the spaceship landing on earth to the fish boat. Both Williams and Giacchino would have made it one of the most memorable moments in the film. Think back to the memorable edit of Eliot's mother and Keys finding the abandoned van to the boys riding their cycles. Happens at 4:28 in the below clip. Exceptional. We never see much of these today. Today's audiences will find it cheesy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZheJFPGBTw

[Quintus 6,499]

Think back to the memorable edit of Eliot's mother and Keys finding the abandoned van to the boys riding their cycles. Happens at 4:28 in the below clip. Exceptional. We never see much of these today. Today's audiences will find it cheesy.

I don't think they do. I'm getting tired of score buffs underestimating the "audiences" capacity to know what they like and the greatly assumed audience lack of sophistication that comes with those conjectured notions. Audiences are you and I, they even have tastes beyond the latest Michael Bay offerings. Audiences love the classics dearly just the same as you and I.

Anyway, my MoS CD arrived, first purchased hard copy in years. I'm liking what I've heard so far, I like the sound of the music; although Drax is bang on when he says this could quite easily have been the soundtrack to an extreme sports documentary. But yeah, it works as good car driving music nonetheless. Nothing life affirming here, but often thrilling 'wall of sound' beats and rhythms which I frequently tend to like on a casual listening basis. It'll always boil down to what one was expecting from these things, but I think this is completely inoffensive and actually rather good.

If you're of the disposition that you felt raped by Zimmer afterwards it's because no really meant yes.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

Well, well...

[TheUlyssesian 2,745]

Think back to the memorable edit of Eliot's mother and Keys finding the abandoned van to the boys riding their cycles. Happens at 4:28 in the below clip. Exceptional. We never see much of these today. Today's audiences will find it cheesy.

I don't think they do. I'm getting tired of score buffs underestimating the "audiences" capacity to know what they like and the greatly assumed audience lack of sophistication that comes with those conjectured notions. Audiences are you and I, they even have tastes beyond the latest Michael Bay offerings. Audiences love the classics dearly just the same as you and I.

Such moments are unlikely to happen not just because of the audiences but also because of the directors today. Very few directors would whole-heartedly hand over their locked picture to a composer and let him run rampart with a sweeping orchestral score. I think the young directors today are insecure, they feel they might have to compete with the composer over the vision of the picture.

And I seriously mean this. If you are giving your film to a composer as all-encompassing as John Williams or Max Steiner or Bernard Hermann, they can literally direct the film again in the recording room. They can alter the pace of the story, slow down sections or speed up sections, create drama or empathy or suspense as they want, they literally have the power to transform a movie and as I said ":direct it a second time" so to say. Very few directors today would be up for that or would be encouraging of that. I think any great scores that we get today are more by chance and inspite of the director's efforts instead of due to them.

You think say Nolan or Fincher would be up for a John Williams style score where the score could literally re-design the movie? No. You get rubbish like Trent Reznor or Zimmer plastered over their movies like so many sound effects and hum drum.

[Quintus 6,499]

You seem to have misunderstood my response to you. I agree with every word of what you just said.

[Koray Savas 2,260]

I think what he said is funny because Nolan is exactly the type of director that hands over his films to the composer.

[Quintus 6,499]

You really believe he does that, say in a way in which Spielberg collaborates with Williams, trusts him unreservedly?