Jay 37,364 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Is there a different mix for the Elton John songs at the end too, or just the songs sung by the characters of the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 You know, maybe Disney should revisit The Lion King. What I mean is that they should take this remastered soundtrack and incorporate it in the film. I mean, they're are times in the film where the score does not have the impact that it should; the original audio does not seem balanced with the sound effects and dialogue at times.You may have a point. I remember watching the film on VHS on our old Dolby Pro-Logic system and the musical mix wasn't always great, especially during the stampede sequence. But when it was, boy it was great, even in good old stereo surround. I will have to get the film on blu-ray one day, or just hope for a remastered edition in the future.My copy of the Legacy Collection is on its way, and considering the substantial upgrade in sound quality, I'm sure it will be an ear-opener. Even though I've heard the songs way too many times, it won't stop me singing along with them once again. I'm 39, but I'm very geeky that way... They just blend in so well with Zimmer's score.I have the film on DVD. It seems to be the case with the DVD. It is just the way the score was mixed originally. It was not done well, and with this release, the difference is very clear.Is there a different mix for the Elton John songs at the end too, or just the songs sung by the characters of the film?I am not sure. I did not listen to the Elton John songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Is there a different mix for the Elton John songs at the end too, or just the songs sung by the characters of the film?No. Just like The Morning Report and Warthog Rhapsody, those are basically the same as previous releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Does anyone remember the bootleg that had the pitch completely wrong during a couple of tracks (mainly the long finale cue)? I remember when I created my own version, I corrected the pitch so it most closely resembled the film, but as I had the VHS at the time (which is PAL and sped up about 4%), I'm thinking this new release will sound somewhat weird, at least the first couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Does anyone remember the bootleg that had the pitch completely wrong during a couple of tracks (mainly the long finale cue)? I remember when I created my own version, I corrected the pitch so it most closely resembled the film, but as I had the VHS at the time (which is PAL and sped up about 4%), I'm thinking this new release will sound somewhat weird, at least the first couple of times.The original boot was a poor man's rip to 48kHz, changed down to 41kHz without resampling. If you do the conversion without resampling, it slows the piece down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 On a related note, is it just me or is "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" faster on both albums than it is in the film (American version)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not this album, no. I do not know about the original album. I discarded it in much favor of this release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 On a related note, is it just me or is "Can You Feel the Love Tonight" faster on both albums than it is in the film (American version)?It's just you: I've checked my centre channel rip and the times match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I find it so cool that Maestro John Williams' son, Joseph, provided the singing voice for adult Simba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Actually I'm disgusted that someone of Williams lineage would ever take part in a production involving Zimmer *spits*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not this album, no. I do not know about the original album. I discarded it in much favor of this release.Yes, it's completely useless now. The original disc, I mean.Karol - absolutely loving every second of this new release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted June 30, 2014 Author Share Posted June 30, 2014 Not this album, no. I do not know about the original album. I discarded it in much favor of this release.Yes, it's completely useless now.Karol - absolutely loving every second of this releaseIt's not if you want the clean intros to "I Just Can't Wait To Be King" and "Remember Who You Are" and both the clean intro and outtro of "Can You Feel The Love Tonight". Otherwise, yeah, this release supersedes the OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Technically, Hans Zimmer's score flows quite well with the songs for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 With the exceptions of sudden interruption of Hawaiian "song" in the midst of gravely serious underscore at that point in the film, yeah.But then again, it's where this piece needs to be.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Hey, man! You just spat on my face!Sorry, thought you were into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 I find it so cool that Maestro John Williams' son, Joseph, provided the singing voice for adult Simba.Holy fuckses! I had no idea! That's quite awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 With the exceptions of sudden interruption of Hawaiian "song" in the midst of gravely serious underscore at that point in the film, yeah.But then again, it's where this piece needs to be.KarolRight...Still, that is a hilarious scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Does anyone remember the bootleg that had the pitch completely wrong during a couple of tracks (mainly the long finale cue)? I remember when I created my own version, I corrected the pitch so it most closely resembled the film, but as I had the VHS at the time (which is PAL and sped up about 4%), I'm thinking this new release will sound somewhat weird, at least the first couple of times.The original boot was a poor man's rip to 48kHz, changed down to 41kHz without resampling. If you do the conversion without resampling, it slows the piece down.So that's all that was??? I corrected that to the best of my hearing abilities, when all I had to do is resample it... Haha! Boy do I feel like a complete fool now !!! And Joseph Williams was also the voice of Toto, when they had a string of hits many years ago. I find that even cooler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 My copy of this release arrived the other day. Overall, I'm very pleased. I mean, the fact that virtually the entire score shows up, as intended, in chronological order...that's pretty impressive. Makes me even more excited for the rest of this collection. And as always, the score itself remains a favorite of mine. That being said, there are a few curiosities that will prevent me from throwing out the OST (or any footwarmers that may be floating about). There are moments that actually suffer from the reduction in synthy-ness, IMO - mainly in the action music heard in "Stampede" and "The Rightful King." And there are moments when I disagree with the new mixing choices. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were used to these versions instead. But as things are, some of these tracks feel more like interesting alternate mixes, rather than new definitive versions. Also, is it just me, or is the delay effect on Carmen Twillie's "Circle of Life" vocals waayyyyy aggressive at times? Regardless, I'm very pleased that this score finally got an expanded release, and it's interesting to hear a mix that is at times very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I personally prefer these mixes, especially the elimination of the demo brass that was in the Rifkin mix (and his habit of lowering/muting the strings). I adore the chorus mix in this version too. Though I wish the booklet had been more expansive on the details of the score. It would have been nice to know if/why the demo compositions were rejected, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Why Hans Zimmer's demo compositions were rejected: the filmmakers wanted an ACTUAL ORCHESTRA AND CHORUS!...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 Why Hans Zimmer's demo compositions were rejected: the filmmakers wanted an ACTUAL ORCHESTRA AND CHORUS!...lol. No, the compositions were made to show how certain themes were to work. Only one of them was rejected and that's "We Are All Connected". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I was jokingly referring to the fact that Hans Zimmer's demo tracks were entirely on synthesizer and the irony that the score was done by live orchestra and chorus with some synth elements to add some atmosphere; the irony being Hans Zimmer from the early 2000 to the present day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra. Your problem with him is the increased use of synth elements (independent, not replacing acoustic instruments) and the way his orchestra is mixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Yes, your problem is partly with Alan Meyerson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It is not that I have a problem; actually I could care less. I was just making a joke. No harm intended.I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra."The Bible" is a very major exception of that, as there was no live performance (besides Lisa Gerrard). All synthesizers, which is especially disappointing considering the subject matter.I digress, though. Honestly, it does not matter. I just wish that Hans Zimmer would not rely so much on synthesizers and actually write music like he did with "The Lion King" and "The Prince of Egypt." Heck, I still enjoy his score to "A League of Their Own." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra. Your problem with him is the increased use of synth elements (independent, not replacing acoustic instruments) and the way his orchestra is mixed.That's quite true, actually, and that's something I've never been able to understand. Why bother use a live orchestra, if it is to mix it in such a way that the end result sounds like synth music? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra. Your problem with him is the increased use of synth elements (independent, not replacing acoustic instruments) and the way his orchestra is mixed.That's quite true, actually, and that's something I've never been able to understand. Why bother use a live orchestra, if it is to mix it in such a way that the end result sounds like synth music?I have no idea. It's especially puzzling given this score sounded more synthy before this release and now sounds more natural. Maybe the producers have more input than they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 2, 2014 Author Share Posted July 2, 2014 I was not necessarily referring to The Lion King. Just his scores in general.As was I. I used the Lion King as an example. That's what I mean when I say "maybe the producers have more input than they should". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Yeah, a lot of times he asks the orchestra to play it as it were a synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 I just thought of something: It would be very interesting to hear how "Didn't Your Mother Tell You Not to Play With Your Food"and the unused first half of"Hyenas In the Pride Land" would play out in their intended places in the film.I like the music that is associated with Scar.Also, it would be interesting to hear how "Bowling for Buzzards"and the unused portion of "We Got a Bone to Pick With You" would play out in their intended places in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 To me that's the weakest material, even by itself doesn't leave very much of an impression. Its sounds kinda out of place. I'm actually glad they cut them out of the film, I always liked the fact that most of the conversation scenes involving Scar are silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra. Your problem with him is the increased use of synth elements (independent, not replacing acoustic instruments) and the way his orchestra is mixed.That's quite true, actually, and that's something I've never been able to understand. Why bother use a live orchestra, if it is to mix it in such a way that the end result sounds like synth music?Because he's settled on a sonic aesthetic that can only be achieved by manipulation of live acoustic sound, and because he is a big supporter of orchestras in general as vital and relevant entities.I think some people don't realize that Zimmer almost always uses a live orchestra."The Bible" is a very major exception of that, as there was no live performance (besides Lisa Gerrard). All synthesizers, which is especially disappointing considering the subject matter.That was 1) mostly a Balfe effort and 2) probably not given much of a music budget to spend on live players. Ultimately though I'm not too broken up about such an awfully lukewarm, soap-opera-esque adaptation not having anything more than a generically mediocre score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 By the way, is anyone able to provide a translation of the African chorus singing in the tracks "We Are All Connected," "I Was Just Trying to Be Brave," "Mufasa Dies," "Remember Who You Are," "This Is My Home," and the finale of "The Rightful King"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smeltington 1,440 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 That would have been a cool feature to include in the liner notes. It would be nice to have translations for the backing vocals in the songs, too. I wonder if the lyrics are actually related to the story at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 3, 2014 Share Posted July 3, 2014 I remember that I found a link that showed the translations of many of the African vocals in the score. It was years ago, and I cannot find the link, but I do remember that the translations were very deep, meaningful, and intricately connected with the story.I cannot remember the exact translations, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Rhythm of the Pride Lands was a "music inspired by" album that was released in the 90s, and the liner notes contain some African (Zulu? Swahili? Xhosa? All the above?) lyrics that are shared with the score and songs from the film. For instance, the chant from "Circle of Life" is apparently:Ingonyama nengw' enamabala (Here is a lion and a tiger)On a deeper level, a song called "Lea Halalela (Holy Land)" shares some melodic ideas and lyrics with parts of the score to the film. Compare these lyrics to 8:52 in "The Rightful King":Uzo libusa (You will rule)Le lizwe (This land)Uli buse kahle (Rule it with care)Sounds like they sing "Simba" instead of "kahle", and then it repeats.Then there's "Busa", which is an expansion of the celebratory material heard during the end credits, among other places. Near as I can tell, 10:55 in "The Rightful King" would be:Busa le lizwe (Rule this land)Busa le lizwe (Rule this land)Busa lomhlaba wethu (Rule this land of ours)Busa ngo xolo (Rule with peace)Busa ngo thando (Rule with love)Busa ngo thando (Rule with love)Busa ngo thando (Rule with love)Busa ngo xolo (Rule with peace)Ubuse ngo thando (You must rule with love)Ubuse ngo xolo (You must rule with peace)Ubuse ngo thando (You must rule with love)Busa Simba busa Simba (Rule Simba, rule Simba)Hemna iyo [no translation given for these three lines]Hemna iyoHemna nkosiOh busa Simba iyo (Rule Simba)Then 3:38 in "Remember Who You Are" corresponds to some material from the song "Lala":We sangoma ngi velelwe (Oh, spiritual healer, I'm troubled)We baba ngivelelwe (Oh, my father, I'm in pain)We baba ngivelelwe (Oh, my father, I'm in pain)Cool stuff, huh? Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 All Lebo M! Brilliant vocalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Agreed - love his contributions to this score and its songs. I would highly recommend Rhythm of the Pride Lands to anyone who feels similarly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawgoon 100 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Got my copy at last. What an excellent listening experience this is. All I remembered of this music before giving this new CD a go were the interlude of "We Are All Connected" and, to a smaller scale, the ascension part of "Rightful King". But I see now that there are more fantastic moments around. Hearing cues like the "Elephant Graveyard", "Just Trying to be Brave", "Stampede" and "Mufasa's Death", in particular, were highly nostalgic. Actually I couldn't remember a note of them before hearing them here, but while they were playing it felt like I knew them for so long. That stampede cue in particular is absolutely amazing. It totally gave me the chills... Been a good while since film music did that for me. Now, this is how animated scores should be done. No goofing around. Play it all straight. Leave the humor to songs, character gestures and dialogues.The only cue that didn't quite work for my taste on this new presentation is this new mix of "We Are All Connected" interlude. Considering that short snippet of music has been the one defining moment of this score for me since 1994 and the only moments of the score I remembered so vividly, I can't accept anything but the panpipe sounding (synth?) flute and the gradual rise of chorus (i.e. the way it appears in the film and in "This Land" from the 1994 album). But that's a very minor issue compared to what I gained from the rest of it. At this rate, I sure hope this Legacy Collection thing is not limited to the currently announced titles! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 Wow the new mix sounds miles better than the old Rifkin one. I really dig the new orchestra and choir balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 It was very well done, indeed! Thanks for the translations, Datameister. Now I can read it in conjunction with the parts in the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share Posted July 4, 2014 Agreed - love his contributions to this score and its songs. I would highly recommend Rhythm of the Pride Lands to anyone who feels similarly.I concur. The 'concert' arrangements of the film's themes in "Lala", "Lea Halalela" and "Busa" are must-listens especially (Along with "He Lives In You" and "One By One") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyD 1,223 Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 The only cue that didn't quite work for my taste on this new presentation is this new mix of "We Are All Connected" interlude. Considering that short snippet of music has been the one defining moment of this score for me since 1994 and the only moments of the score I remembered so vividly, I can't accept anything but the panpipe sounding (synth?) flute and the gradual rise of chorus (i.e. the way it appears in the film and in "This Land" from the 1994 album). But that's a very minor issue compared to what I gained from the rest of it. At this rate, I sure hope this Legacy Collection thing is not limited to the currently announced titles!It seemed that way to me at first, until I found out that this new mix is the way the score was meant to be heard. That panpipe solo used in the film and the 1994 OST was a synthesizer. This new mix is taken from the original master tapes. The panpipe solo heard in "We Are all Connected" is real, the actual performance by Richard Harvey. The gradual rise in chorus is more profound now then it was before, and the orchestra is more clear and real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share Posted July 5, 2014 The musical preserves much of the lyrics of the final cue (start at 9:22):Ndabe zitha (King of kings)Nkosi yetha (Our king)Mholi wezwe lethu (Rule of our land)Lefattshe la botnata rona (This land of our ancestors)Lea halalela (Holy land)Busa le lizwe bo (Rule this land)Busa le lizwe boBusa le lizwe boLethu busa ngoxolo (Rule with peace)Is'khathi sifikile (The time has come)Is'khathi busa iyo (It's time, rule)Is'khathi sifikileBusa lomhlaba (Rule this land)Is'khathi sifikile (The time has come)Is'khathi sifikileBusa Simba (Rule, Simba)Busa SimbaUsuse ngo xolo (Rule with peace)Ubuse ngo thando (Rule with love)Ususe ngo xoloUbuse ngo thandoUsuse ngo xolo Smeltington and Datameister 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 5, 2014 Share Posted July 5, 2014 Ahh, excellent! Thanks for that, Gareth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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