Falstaft

I purposely didn't pick Asteroid Field because it wasn't a flying theme perse, certainly not in the way that "Flying" from E.T. is at least. Also, I was hesitant to pick anything from Star Wars, figuring it would be unfairly preferred in a poll. It does now strike me that I've forgotten some more obvious choices however, especially those from the HP series, including Nimbus 2000 related stuff, and the Flying Car cue from COS (if that's not a flying sequence, I dont know what is!)

I finally broke down and listened to Buckbeak's Flight (and a couple other tracks) from POA and one thing is for sure -- I was not dissapointed! As far as I can tell, this cue contains JW's only MINOR flying theme, which IMHO makes it sound all the more magestic and fresh. Anyway, it got me thinking. JW has written an incredible number of cues and themes related to flight. I've put down as many as I can think of in this poll, but I'm sure there are more. (oh yeah, and this is my first poll. in fact, it may well be the first topic on the new MB I've ever started!)

Overjoyed! And I've only listened to Aunt Marge's waltz, and that's all I'm going to listen to (the rest can't be spoiled). But oh man, track 2 just had me jumping up and down. Pure, unadulterated JW delight! And the Rossini like spoof stuff at the end! Oh man, I can't wait to hear this score in it's entirety! -Giddy Frank

Was that a brief snippet of electronic action music (ala Crimebusters or Setting The Trap) that I heard during the Knight-Bus sequence, or do my ears decieve me? -Frank (also giddy)

Synth stuff in new trailer doesnt sound like JW to me at all. (Except for Hedwig's theme and short chord progression at beginning which we know is JW.) Oh well.

I've been lurking around here since then too!

Hazarding a guess (this is just from memory) C-e/B-F/A-C/G-G-C... That is to say, I-iii6/4-IV6-I6/4-V-I. Nothing very complicated

Well I'll be buying them for sure. If Lucasfilm is using the Indy Box set as their model, it will be a high quality and well produced item, no matter what our kvetches about scarcity of extras or inclusion of annoying SE blunders. As for OT vs SE (and I know I'm gonna get lynched for saying this) I honestly would prefer to see SE over OT. SE just looks so much *better* and despite having some wretched scenes and musical edits, a lot of the changes struck me as for the better. Greedo's death, Jabba's new band and the messing around with the Losing A Hand/Hyperspace cue were mistakes, for sure. But the improved Mos Eisley, crisper X-Wings, opaque snowspeeders, open-air Bespin (extreme improvement, IMHO), and Ewok Victory celebration (along with it's corresponding new musical cue) all were perfectly good and well executed changes in my mind. And who isn't excited about the possibility of a new John Williams SW featurette (or even commentary - I've seen rumors that commentary tracks will be featured)...

Concerning the Droid March, there's only theme, though the beginning of the melody has two different variations (analagous to the two different "versions" of Hedwig's Theme from HP), but it is indisputably the same theme. I know what you're talking about for the Magic Tree and Clash of Light Sabers "motif" but it's so minor and obscure that I am very reluctant to include it. Adam's right about the "Hope And Glory Theme," I totally forgot about the end credits! I don't believe that there is a proper "Victory" theme in ROTJ. Though the fanfares after the Sail Barge Battle and the Explosion of the Death Star are very familiar, they are clearly not the same melody, and only vaguely similar harmonically. Then again, I may be missing some ingenious diminution or thematic trick Williams is playing, which he certainly capable.

>>In ROTJ, we hear a new droid theme that's used a couple of times. I think I know what you're talking about (the little melody heard while R2 and 3PO approach Jabba's Palace) but I can't think of any other cue in the film that features it. >>In TPM, we hear a theme connected to Amidala. It ended up not getting used much in the film but still appears. This was a great topic of debate a few years back. So far, no one has been able to identify where in the score that theme occurs that goes beyond unsatisfying speculation. I personally don't believe there is any thematic material for her in the final (heard) score of TPM. >>In AOTC, there's a mystery motif that has different permutations but I still think of it as a theme. I think you're right. There is a kind of arpeggiated minor-chord motif that occurs several times in AOTC, seperate from the Conspiracy Motif. >>What do you mean by "pastoral love theme"? It's a nice little melody found at the beginning of the track "Anakin and Padme" and features a nice but brief development in "The Meadow Picnic". There are probably a lot of little secrets I'm missing from AOTC due to the lack of a complete score recording. I think I remember a mournful theme that begins with an upward interval of a minor 6th occuring in several places (during Shmi's funeral?) which could qualify as an entry into the thematic canon (AOTC is a little skimpy on new offerings, if you hadn't noticed), and there's one melodic line that occurs at 5:24 of "Tusken Camp/The Homestead" which I think pops up here and there. I just realized that I may have neglected one very subtle recurrent motif, the "Touchdown on Tatooine" motif (really just three notes -- something like E4-F4-A3) which is heard in ANH and TPM. May just be accidental though. Also, Victory Celebration from ROTJ:SE was supposed to be incorporated into the new trilogy, though honestly, I dont hear it. I guess you could argue that "It's Working" from TPM is some kind of variation on it, but I think the case would be weak.

Ok, here's what I've come up with. I may have forgotten some, but such is life! Also, I dont consider repeated melodies that appear within the context of a single cue (such as the "Hyperspace" ostinato, "The Flag Parade," "Into the Trap," or "The Arena Battle") to be themes proper, because they only function within a single dramatic context, recieve development only within that cue, and carry no significant symbolic/referential weight that carry across the film like a proper theme should. I'm playing it pretty conservative here, only accepting those that are unmistakably themes. First heard in ANH 1) Main Theme/Luke's Theme 2) Force Theme 3) Rebel Fanfare 4) Imperial Motif 5) Princess Leia's Theme 6) Jawa Theme 7) Death Star Motif First heard in ESB 1) Imperial March/Darth Vader's Theme 2) Yoda's Theme 3) Han Solo and the Princess 4) Droid Motif 5) Boba Fett Motif 6) Lando's Palace First heard in ROTJ 1) Emperor's Theme 2) Jabba's Theme 3) Luke and Leia 4) Parade of the Ewoks First heard in TPM 1) Anakin's Theme 2) Duel of the Fates 3) Qui Gon's Theme 4) Darth Maul's Motif 5) Shmi's Theme 6) Jar Jar's Theme 7) Droid March First heard in AOTC 1) Across the Stars (Love theme) 2) Conspiracy Motif 3) Pastoral Love Theme Please correct me if I'm forgetting anything, which I probably am.

Nocturnal Activities, of course! Lovely, horny clarinet solo especially.

F/Bb-Bb-Eb/Bb-Bb-Eb-Bb, F-Bb/D-Ebsus4-g-F-Eb-Bb, F-g-Bb-Eb-F-Bb. As moving a testament to the man as I can think. Truly saddened, Frank

The very first JW piece I became obsessed with was the NBC News Fanfare. When I was around 2 or 3 years old, hearing that theme always used to herald bath-time as it played on the TV set that my dad was watching. But the cue that really got me obsessed with JW was hearing the Force Theme play during Binary Sunset, and it remains to this day my favorite Williams theme of all. -Frank (of course I still visit!)

Great sweeping theme, gorgeous chord progression, though I'm not really a fan of the concert-arrangement. The agitated middle section sounds perfunctory, and JW could have easily written a more full-bodied development for such a flexible theme. I'll be the first to admit that the melody of Across the Stars is not unbelievably original (melodic resemblances to a host of other JW works is undeniable, including Hook and Nixon, but exaggerated still). However, I disagree with Stef -- I dont hear an arrangement deconstruction or retread of Luke's Theme in anything, besides the slight resemblance in rhythmic outline. I also don't see ties to any other Star Wars themes, which I've heard conjectured on this board from time to time. As far as its place in the Star Wars thematic canon, I believe it is up there with most of the trilogy's themes. But nothing will ever approach the Force Theme in sheer genius and malleability. Name one occurence of that theme which isn't absolutely perfect. Some of the most rewarding music for me to come out of the prequels has just been new variations on that theme. The Force theme, I believe, is what really carries these 5 (6...) movies, not the Imperial March or DotF or Luke's theme. -Frank

Yay for "Pops on the March"! I just took this CD out from the library for the first time and was delighted by that piece, which I had never heard before. Quirky, fun, and infectuous (he can't be taking himself too seriously, given the three humorous Sousa quotes). I agree that it is arefreshingly unusual piece, but still quite accessible. It even verges on, though never quite attains, the inspiring, especially that secondary theme in it's reappearance. As for the poll... Here are some suggestions (a couple are nonsense) -What about the March (Parade...) of the Slave Children from Indy 2??? -...or March (Parade...) of the Ewoks? -I think the main patriotic theme from the Patriot definitely qualifies as a march. -And the processional version of the Force theme at the end of A New Hope too. -Or the some of the more martial variations of Hook's primary theme? -A lot of music from JW's score to JFK contains march rhythms... -And he did a version of the British Grenadiers in Empire of the Sun! -I seem remember a huge, relentless 90 piece brass/percussion-band arrangement of Remembering Caroline from Presumed Innocent that never got released. -There are a lot of similarities between the Droid March and the Arena Battle Theme (as well as Belly of the Steel Beast, both quite savage militaristic pieces). -The government in CEOT3K has a kinda martial motif. -Don't forget the super-repatitive snare ostinato from NBC news! -And the March of the Villains from Nixon! -And there's always the Parade of the Dementors! just a thought!

Strange... I've sucessfully logged on this time! This hardly ever happens Well, I was at that concert you spoke of (the pops concert three or four years back right before the one which was broadcasted on Evening @ Pops), and I distinctly remember the little piano solo error. It was quite embarassing, for me at least. If I remember correctly, the pianist simply couldnt get the simple 6/8 rhythm of the Angela's Ashes suite correctly. I was on one of the side balconies and couldnt see perfectly, but I recall Williams kinda glaring at the player, paying much more attention while conducting to this person than normal. Live concerts can be unpredictable, and even the best musician can slip up occassionally. But by and large, every Williams concert I have ever gone to (including the awesome most recent one which was just aired on Evening @ Pops, once again, in the side balcony) has been practically perfect! I think it is everyone's -responsibility- on this board to make a pilgramage to a JW concert at least once to see the maestro conduct. I've been incredibly lucky in the amount of times I've seen him; and I have no plans to stop either!!! -Frank

I've been lucky enough to attend Williams-conducted concerts for every one of the past six years. Ahh, the benefits of living in Boston. Four out of six of those concerts, I've stayed behind to meet JW in person and shake the man's hand (though I dont think he remembers me...). Needless to say, for the past 4 years, I have not washed my right hand once... Its hard to remember exactly what was on the program of each concert, but I'll think of some highlites. -There was a suite from Star Wars, featuring accompanying visuals, which included music taken from the Mynok Cave scene (which he did before the ESB Special Ed came out, so I think I must have fainted in paroxysms of sheer ecstacy when he played that cue which I had hitherto never heard on recording). -There were the wonderful concert premiers of Star Wars Ep I and Ep II, respectively, which triggered immense applause, of course. And hearing the grand concertized version of the Flag Parade for the first time was quite something. -There was the amazing suite he concocted for the Patriot in which he expanded the beautiful love theme from that movie. I have never heard anyone else mention this, and there is no recording to my knowledge, which makes that one time experience of hearing it live all the more special. -At the most recent concert I attended, he did something truly amazing when first he walked the entire audience through the circus train sequence of Indy II, w/o sound, and then played the Boston Pops like a Hollywood Studio Orchestra, hitting each punch perfectly. Not only was it a revealing experience for someone who has always been an Indy fanboy, and is fascinated with the film-scoring process, but he played all the unreleased music (well, legally) as well, right up to the point where Indy runs off from the caboose. Hopefully, Evening @ Pops will show this segment of the concert when they televise it! Of course, every concert w/ JW is great, and that includes the music he didnt pen himself as well. I have been extremely lucky to attend them all, and hope to continue into the future. Now, back into my relative silence.

Nah, I disagree. First of all, Dooku's theme (in C: C-C-D-C-B-C-A) really doesnt bear anything more than an extremely contrived similarity to Across the Stars (in A: C-A-D-C-B-C-A...). Nor do I agree with the very popular attitude that Across the Stars is some kind of deconstrcution of Luke's Theme or Luke and Leia or anything like that. True, the rhythm is slightly similar to Luke's, but so what. It's an obvious pattern that occurs frequently in Williams' work, in other respects - harmony, melodic-countour - they are quite dissimilar. Though I'm not trying to downplay the brilliance of Williams' Star Wars opus -- I believe it is the greatest achievement in the history of film scoring) -- I think people try to exaggerate the amount of thematic integration that goes into the scores. Even with Anakin's Theme, which, is in itself quite brilliant (I did a harmonic/quasi-Shenkerian analysis on the piece), the general conception that it is suffused by the Imperial March is, I think, misleading. Sure, there are some very obvious, and some very subtle quotes and nods to Darth's Theme, as far as I can tell, it is not a all-out-deconstruction. Nor is it in any way atonal, as some (myself at one point) claimed. Nor was it adequately used in Ep II, or even Ep I. Concerning DotF, I wouldnt tie myself in a knot over what it represents. It's a cool theme which fit well with the scene. I doubt Williams could really care less about the precise semiotic significance of DotF, and neither should we. Williams was -never- that precise with his usage of themes in this series. Obi-Wan's theme during Binary Sunset? I would say it is clearly Kenobi's theme, not the force theme, at this point in the trilogy, and only in ESB took on the role of force theme. Yoda's theme during the Carbon Freezing Chamber duel? The Emporer's Theme during Anakin's breakdown (unless you'd like to rename it the dark side theme, which begs the question of why it wasnt used more...) Numerous uses of the Rebel Fanfare in strange contexts (Sail Barge Fight) Han Solo and the Princess during the final scene of ESB? etc. My point is that often Williams uses themes for effect more than pinpoint thematic accuracy, which is itself Wagnerian, and this lends itself to a more mystical, unpinnable feel to the trilogy than if he had observed strict precision. It allows you to make your own associations with the music. This is the way to go! -Frank

Interesting... Well, I like the score for what it is, very low key, effectively ethereal underscore. A few standout cues are, of course, "Among the Clouds", which is very beautiful and inspiring, "Pete and Dorinda" in all its slightly melancholy nostalgia, and the wonderful "Saying Goodbye" which is one of JW's best musical depictions of what it feels like to be in love.

I think few of us will deny that Williams is heavily influenced by the composers that preceeded him, and some that are writing alongside him. This is not JW being derivative or plagiaristic -- any composer worth his salt is aware of the tradition that is layed out before him or her and is capable of incorporating the styles and innovations of musical history into their works in original ways. The little but clear influences and homages JW to other composers inserts into his works always make me smile. Sometimes they are exaggerated. A.I. was a score very warmly recieved by the JW community for its supposed suffusion with strains of the American Minimalist movement, but I think that there are no direct borrowings at all, besides a cute, but short tip-off to Phil-Glassian arpeggios and a nod to John Adam's percussive, highly expressive chord-progressions, at least in his Short Ride/Harmonielehre mode. But both of these examples (the beginning of Abandoned in the Woods, and the astonishing Mecha World respectively) are undeniably "Williamsesque" while at the same time extremely new sounding. A.I. is a fascinating score, one of my top 5, full of more modern influences than I can name, but the important thing is that JW makes each his own. Compare the opening to Aliens to the magnificent Cybertronics and then to the original Khachiturian, and you'll see how much more talented JW is, and how much more the thief Horner is (not that I don't love Horn-dog). In the end, though, I simply believe A.I. is just about as damn powerful a score (or composition) that anyone is capable of writing, regardless of his skillful nods to whoever, Glass of Gorecki. In some ways, many ways, I think he exceeds them. I think the real problem, that people strangely pay far less attention, is Williams recent tendency to plagiarize -himself- !! Anderton's Great Escape is a fine action setpiece that really gets my blood pumping, but seriously now, how many more times do we have to hear the Ludlow's Demise theme (which itself has other precedents in JW's work). I'm willing to grant that each time it sounds different, and there is a certain satisfaction I feel when I recognize a line from Far and Away in American Journey or whatever, but sometimes its just frustrating, because we -know- JW is still capable of writing great, original music in whatever style. I hear not only an agitated secondary theme from Across the Stars in CMIYC "Recollections," but Sabrina, and even his Cello Concerto. "Recollections" is still a great piece, and CMIYC still a fine score, but little things like that can still be troubling. Even so, I shouldnt exaggerate the magnitude of Williams' self-plagiarism either; afterall, composers all have little harmonic, rhytmic or melodic ideas that kinda haunt them througout their works. The better you get to know the composer, the better you are at recognizing these recurring ideas, and, even grow to appreciate how they evolve through piece to piece.

Scott was a wonderful webmaster and a great guy to boot. I got my first recording of Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom from him on a little tape in the mail, and I nearly wore out the dang thing playing it over and over. He even included a surprise on the tape, that is, he also recorded the entire Varese Dracula album onto it. Quite a guy. He was very helpful and encouraging of me back in the early days of my JW obsession, and was crucial in spreading my quaintly immature reviews too (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade? I give it 11 stars!!!) Good times, good times.

Grail Theme, all the way. I think it's a more elegant theme and more pleasurable to listen to (though both function perfectly in their roles in the movie, absolutely perfectly). I think it's my fondness for modal music that makes me enjoy the very aeolian Grail theme (this accounts, in large part, for why it sounds so early Christian) more than the extremely chromatic, heavy and minor Ark theme (which gives it a forboding and mysterious quality). But what about the other relic themes from Indiana Jones? The medallion, the sankara stones (do they have their own theme? I think its the parade), the cross of coronado? Did I miss any? Good stuff.

I really dont see an AOTC-UE coming out any time soon, for all the reasons mentioned before, and also for the fact that there really isnt -that much- there to generate enough hype. I mean, how many important cues are we missing? 1) the Spanish-flavored Naboo welcome 2) the abortive 1st kiss (w/ harpsichord) 3) the eeire quasi-Emperor's Theme trumpet solo 4) Anakin goes nuts (ok, this is legitmately an important cue for the overall arch of the Star Wars saga, though I dont agree with most people who say that Williams blended Imperial March w/ Emperor's theme seemlessly... what happened to "Anakin's theme," honestly...) 5) Shmi's funeral, which is brutally, almost hysterically cut short by Lucas' horrible sense of timing. 6) The final battle, which is interesting for its incorporation of Yoda's theme turned agressive, and the reccuring motif (when Anakin's hand is chopped off) which bears a -slight- resemblance to the music precisely when Luke's hand goes flying. What else?? I can only think of little snippets which honestly aren't that impressive and certainly wouldnt make for much of a compelling listen. I am a Williams completist, but I can't help but feeling that his score to AOTC, while good, is less, er..., voluminous than his other four. I'm not desperate for an UE. They would find some way to travesty it.

Whoops, that was supposed to say 'by me,' Falstaft. Still trying to get the hang of this new fangled message board.