If no climax music, would you still want complete AOTC?

[Guest macrea]

Just saw AOTC again at a $3 theater and paid attention to score closely. The use of TPM music is really disgusting and badly edited. I also noticed that the album covers most of the other significant parts of the score and the rest is really just filler and transitions. There are two exceptions IMHO: the scene where Anakin confesses to Padme that he enjoyed killing the Tuskens, and the music for the duels. That aside, I am wondering if we find out that Williams did not compose any music for the big climactic battle at the end -- and I believe he didn't -- would you still want a 2CD complete score? Not would you WANT it, really, but couldn't we live without it? I certainly could.

[Justin 2]

I could live with out one but would I really love one?

YES

But I would love a complete version with alternate and unused versions along with some track by track notes even more.

Justin - Wonderin why Sony is being so mean to us and not releasing an Ultimate Edition. :dontgetit:

[tpigeon 3]

Justin - Wonderin why Sony is being so mean to us and not releasing an Ultimate Edition. :dontgetit:

probably because Sony (rightfully or unrightfully) recieved a lot of negative feedback about their 2-disc release of episode I. and that's a nice way of putting it. people have been trashing it ever since it was released, and yet they wonder why Sony isnt putting out another one. i think it's quite simple. i'm not singling you out, Justin, i just mean in general.

me, i'd love an expanded release of attack of the clones. i think there is a lot of great music that wasn't on the cd. i'm starting to lean towards the possibility that Williams didn't compose anything for final battle, but that doesn't really matter in whether or not a complete score should be released. because there is so much music still not on the cd, despite the amount of re-used music.

overall, i think Williams did a great job with the score to the film and realy would love to have an expanded release.

[ST-321 4]

Yes, I want more music! I'll take all that I can get.

[Trumpeteer 302]

I'd take it for completion's sake, since I have the complete scores to the previous four.

But I'd probably skip some tracks, like I do for the Phantom Menace.

[King Mark 3,631]

Apart from the music when Anakin says to Padme he enjoyed killing the Tuscans,I noticed after 4 viewings nothing else in the movie that warrants an urgent 2 c.d. release of this score.The rest I heard in the movie IS bland filler and transition music,I agree.All the really important cues ARE on the current album and I don't even like the album.It's just a weak score to me,too bad it had to be for a SW movie.Lets petition on something else.

Besides,according to John Takis analysis,there IS 125 minutes of new music in AOTC,what Lucasfilm said Williams composed,so I don't think the end battle was scored at all.

K.M.Who thinks that subject has been discussed far too much.

[UCFKevin 0]

Macrea, what do you mean, if Williams composed the music in the final climax? Do you mean, if he purposely wrote the music to sound like TPM during the parts that feature its music, or do you mean the music at the end with the Count Dooku duels? If it's the former, no, it's not composed, it's DEFINITELY the exact music from TPM, edited into AOTC. If it's the latter, of course, man! Williams composed it! It ain't Star Wars music if it ain't by Williams! Lucas may be an idiot in some regards, but he'd never use someone else to score any of this movie.

Maybe I just misunderstood this question.....

[Lurker 5]

I want the music as Williams intended it to be heard, properly assembled. Is that asking for too much?

Neil

[tpigeon 3]

i don't think it's Williams' or Lucas' fault in regards to the recycled music. this is pure speculation, but here's my take on it. Williams had to start scoring on Minority Report at some point and since AOTC is a 140 minute film, longer than any of the others, he probably ran out of time. i have nothing to back this up, but i think it's what happened.

what bothers me though is the music that was composed for a few scenes and was tossed. like the Arena scene. it's an ok scene without the music, but i think it would have been perfect with that Williams composed for it. why was it taken out? that bothers me

nevertheless, the entire score should be released. i think people will be surprised with the amount of good music that never made the soundtrack. some of it is transitional music, but REALLY GOOD transitional music. for example, the transition from the Padme/Yoda/Palpatine scene in the very beginning to the first Anakin/ObiWan scene has beautiful music. same goes for ObiWan's arrival at Kamino, and the cut to the transport after ObiWan searches the Jedi Archives.

as you can see, i think it's all really good and hope it gets released sometime.

[UCFKevin 0]

Well, according to Ben Burtt, ALL the blame lies on the music supervisor/editor guy, who's name escapes me now.

[King Mark 3,631]

i  

some of it is transitional music, but REALLY GOOD transitional music.  

.

Alright, I remember some short bits and fanfares that were ok when a scene would change or something,perhaps those you mention.But 10-15 second of music that don't lead into a longer cue can hardly justify beeing released on a score album.

K.M.

[tpigeon 3]

i can understand that. but i think when listening to it as a whole, it would be a really good listening experience. it has some wonderful uncderscore and a many more variations of the love theme, most notably the first one, which is the best version of it but not on the cd.

[King Mark 3,631]

some wonderful uncderscore and a many more variations of the love theme, .

1-I don't like Across the Stars all that much,its mediocre at best,that doesn't help.

2-i don't like most of what's on the current album,that doesnt help either

2-As for the unreleased wonderful underscore you mention,i'll concede that the low sound mix of the music might have made me miss something,though I doubt it.I'll have to rent(i ain't buying it)the DVD,listen carefully through headphones,and see if I missed those unreleased gem cues your talking about.

K.M.

[Wickenstein 0]

I loved the AOTC score on CD. Tracks 3, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 are fantastic. I miss the Emperor's theme/imperial march part, Yoda's fanfare, and the low drumbeat over the final duel. There's enough stuff to warrant a 2 CD release, and I think Williams did write music for the final battle. I just don't think he'd not score an animatic or something. Bring on the unedited Williams cut.

[tpigeon 3]

well at least you can disagree without telling me i'm wrong, unlike some people on this board. i appreciate your openness to the situation.

[John Crichton 4]

I'd like as close to a Mattesino release as possible, but at this point I wouldn't care if we got another "Ultimate Edition". I'd just edit and burn it myself like TPM.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I am a total JW freak so yeah.

[PetePan 163]

Justin - Wonderin why Sony is being so mean to us and not releasing an Ultimate Edition. :dontgetit: 8O

Thats obvious: Sony wants to milk out the first CD completely before they release a second 2CD. Otherwise somebody who didn't buy the first CD yet, probably only buys the second set. Then Sony will make less money and they don't like that!

It's called marketing

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I want every note Williams composed, conducted, and recorded for every score, used, unused, good, bad, or indifferent.

[Miz 139]

I agree with that whole-heartedly.

[stewdog1 50]

I would be deathly afraid that Sony would just take the final battle music as is from the movie and call it an ultimate edition.

I would have a hard time plopping down 25 bucks for that.

Blade Runner

[KittBash 282]

I don't know! I would love to hear whatever they've got on those master tapes from the recording sessions! I mean this is JW people there must be something brilliant that wasn't put on the original Release. I mean after all the editing that Lucas does there's no wonder the music is all out of wack. WHEN there is a new edition of Attack of the Clones Music I will be there regardless!

Brian99_1 - The Fury Disc 1

[Morn 8]

I loved the AOTC score on CD.  Tracks 3, 10, 11, 12, 13, and 14 are fantastic.  I miss the Emperor's theme/imperial march part, Yoda's fanfare, and the low drumbeat over the final duel.  There's enough stuff to warrant a 2 CD release, and I think Williams did write music for the final battle.  I just don't think he'd not score an animatic or something.  Bring on the unedited Williams cut.

I second that. I remember there being lots of little bits of music over the place that are worth having.

[The Five Tones 302]

If Sony had an offer that allowed us to trade in our TPM UE's for an AOTC UE I would want one, but no way otherwise, just another disappointment even before the hack job -- from the Crouching Tiger imitations on down to the premature appearance of the Imperial March. Well, maybe I would want to hear what was supposed to go with that scene before George intervened...

[ocelot 508]

I agree with Crusher. Give me all the music he wrote as he wrote it

[Trumpeteer 302]

Just another disappointment even before the hack job -- from the Crouching Tiger imitations on down to the premature appearance of the Imperial March. Well, maybe I would want to hear what was supposed to go with that scene before George intervened...

I agree. I never liked the use of the Imperial March in the film. It's very premature. Sure, it's foreshadowing, but it shouldn't have been used outright in the finale (the Empire hasn't truly been created yet) though I enjoyed the snippet after Anakin's massacre.

I've heard many different stories about what was originally written for the finale. Anxious to hear it.

[Ricard 2,245]

I also noticed that the album covers most of the other significant parts of the score and the rest is really just filler and transitions.

The unreleased parts aren't better or worse than those included on the CD. And in my opinion, there's no such thing as 'filler music' or 'transitions'. Just good or bad music.

[Ricard 2,245]

Justin - Wonderin why Sony is being so mean to us and not releasing an Ultimate Edition. :dontgetit:

probably because Sony (rightfully or unrightfully) recieved a lot of negative feedback about their 2-disc release of episode I. and that's a nice way of putting it. people have been trashing it ever since it was released, and yet they wonder why Sony isnt putting out another one. i think it's quite simple. i'm not singling you out, Justin, i just mean in general.

I think you're wrong. The TPM UE sold rather well and its feed back was, for the most part, extremely positive, despite the fact that some people misinterpreted the Complete Score Campaign. Sony is not punishing anyone for their bashing. That would be utterly ridiculous. Furthermore, I'm 100% sure they'll release a 2CD set sooner than we may think.

[Figo 2]

Count me in with those who think the full-out statement of the Imperial March in AOTC was a bust. Completely premature. After the subtle allusion at the end of Anakin's Theme in TPM, I fully expected the evolution would be gradual. We shouldn't have heard the Imperial March until the end of Episode III.

By the way, thanks for the thinly veiled potshot, tpigeon. I don't believe I ever outright told you you were wrong -- crime that that would be -- except the time you attributed my Milton quote to Keanu Reeves. LOL Get over it, already.

[tpigeon 3]

who said i was referring to you? i don't think you've ever done that, Figo. but you have done your fair share of insinuating. that post wasn't aimed directly at you, mostly others.

[Figo 2]

Oops. Sorry. Jsawruk... Disease... catching. :oops:

[tpigeon 3]

i hope you're right, Ricard. i was just saying that when it was released, everywhere i went on the internet gave it a poor review, and most of the people on this board rip on it ALL the time. i was just speculating. i wouldn't be surprised if i was completely wrong. it was just a thought.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Count me in with those who think the full-out statement of the Imperial March in AOTC was a bust.  Completely premature.  After the subtle allusion at the end of Anakin's Theme in TPM, I fully expected the evolution would be gradual.  We shouldn't have heard the Imperial March until the end of Episode III.

I like the Imperial March at the end, at least how it sounds. But I agree, it could have been more effective if left for Episode III. I don't remember if this has been discussed before, but in case it's not commonly known (I read this in the SW Insider interview), Williams had scored the finale differently, and Lucas suggested changing it to feature the march. Williams, of course, graciously agreed. In any case, I'm looking forward to hear how it's used in Episode III.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morn 8]

Count me in with those who think the full-out statement of the Imperial March in AOTC was a bust.

I agree.... but I would have liked a more subtle version.

i hope you're right, Ricard. i was just saying that when it was released, everywhere i went on the internet gave it a poor review, and most of the people on this board rip on it ALL the time. i was just speculating. i wouldn't be surprised if i was completely wrong. it was just a thought.

Ohh, it has flaws, but it's definitely worth getting, because of the great unreleased music.

[UCFKevin 0]

The first time I heard the Imperial March on the soundtrack (what was it, like three weeks before the flick?) I almost wet my pants. It was gorgeous. So amazing to hear it like that for the first time in over a decade. (Well, by Williams, anyway)

In the movie......it was good, but it was expected. I know, that's my own fault.

HOWEVER...it just......I dunno. It could've been better. It starts off so normally and kinda subdued, really. It should've been BOOOOOM! Imperial March! The galaxy is F*CKED!

But it was more like, "Blump da dump......" like it was just there.

I'm not sure if I would prefer it to be there or not. I agree that it shouldn't have been fully used until Episode III, but I love the march so I can't really complain about hearing it TOO much. Would've made it more impactful to not hear it until Episode III, just snippets otherwise like from TPM. It was used too much in AOTC, I think.

I dunno how, but I'm completely torn about the use of Vader's theme after Anakin's confession. It's absolutely awesome and fits perfectly, but it's just TOO much, you know? It didn't have to be there. We KNOW what's gonna happen. Don't shove it on our face. The use of the Emperor's theme is PERFECT, though, no complaints about that. Honestly, musically, that was the most incredible moment in the movie for me. Jesus, I got the BIGGEST chills during that scene, not only because of the acting (yeah, i thought it was great, sue me) but mainly the music was just so.......creepy.

Am I rambling? I think so.

[Romão 2,274]

I tend to think that the Imperial March is indeed played is a march, it works as the Empire's theme. Only when it's played more subdued, it's Vader's theme.

Now, I don't considerer Anakin to be Darth Vader only when he finally wears the mask. Vader is already there, like a kind of Jecklyl and Hyde type of thing. The use of the mask will only make the transition complete, but Anakin already is becoming Darth Vader, so the use of the theme was perfect in the confession IMHO. In the end, as the Imperial March is used in the form a march (sorry for the redundace), the idea or concept of Darth Vader never crosses my mind, only the concept of the Empire and Military dictatorship, so I think the music was well used.

Just my take.

[Guest]

As one of the webmasters of the AOTC Complete Score Resource Page and Petition Site, along with John Takis, I have to agree that the complete original score for the film should be released in the manner in which John Williams intended. The last thing we need is another "Ultimate Edition" that amounts to an isolated score track on a DVD.

We've gotten good response overall with this petition, almost 1100 signatures thus far, with only one dissenting voice in the crowd who didn't sign the petition (there's always going to be one of those, you can't help it). The more people who make their voice known to Sony Classical and Lucas Licensing, the more we will get a quality product that benefits the composer, the music, and the fans.

Bill Williams

Co-Webmaster, The Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones Complete Score Petition and Resource Page

URL: http://www.geocities.com/bill33_39056/TheC...eteEdition.html

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Anybody that didn't sign it yet... sign the thing!

[King Mark 3,631]

I tend to think that the Imperial March is indeed played is a march, it works as the Empire's theme. Only when it's played more subdued, it's Vader's theme.

.

No,Williams explained it himself in a long article that I traducted from french with Alan (but was never put on the main page,and is stuck somewhere in some MB archives ),The Imperial March has 2 parts to it, part of it represents the Empire and the other is the theme for Vader himself.I don't remember the specifics.

K.M.

[Jurassosaurus 0]

Yes, I agree with you. The use of TPM music sounded horrible, but as Williams wrote no music for that sequence more than what we actually HAVE on the Sony Classical Release (Track 12), the twenty minutes that I believed was missing appeared not to exist.

So, therefore, there is only one piece I really miss from the film : the music in the lightsaber duel with Count Dooku.

Also, the alternate version of the finale that appears in the music video "Across The Stars" would indeed be very nice having.

But if they will release any ULTIMATE EDITION, I would rather prefer the 74-minute release that already is available, as such a CD would sound ten times worse than TPM UE.