AI - Rouge City with Der Rosenkavalier

[DU Lou 1]

Does anyone know what track if any this appears on the AI promo. Its on the bridge when the group is entering Rouge City just before the big mouth. I thought it was pretty ingenious of JW to incorporate that waltz into the film per Kubrick's request If you dont know what i am talking about watch the DVD interview with JW, he mentions it quite a bit - and also during some of the menu screens on the DVD if I remember correctly....

[Guest]

This cue is on the promo.

[Jim Ware 526]

In my absence I appear to have developed an inability to log in correctly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He needs to know specifically what track it is, so I can send him an MP3 of it.

Stefancos- who does not know Der Rosenkavelier, but is sure it sucks.

[Lurker 5]

Stefancos- who does not know Der Rosenkavelier, but is sure it sucks.  

I hope it's your favorite track on the album!

Neil - who would love the irony

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I doubt that, but if I would, it would be because Williams would have made that piece sooooo much better then the original composer (who's name is completely unknown to me at this point) could have ever hope to do.

Actually, the whole post was designed to further annoy those who seem baffled by my lack of reference to the Classical greats. (yourself, Marian, Figsy, Voldemorn.)

Stefancos- getting ready for a nice cup of thea and a good book (the Company is heading for Moria.)

[Lurker 5]

Stefancos- getting ready for a nice cup of thea and a good book (the Company is heading for Moria.)

Reading the novelization to West Side Story?

"Moria, I just met a girl named Moria,

and suddenly that name,

will never be the same

to me."

Neil

[Guest]

I don't know which track of the promo it is, but it is used in the "Rouge City" scene. The track starts off with variations on the "Mecha World" track, which eventually leads into the Der Rosenkavelier waltz, as the travelers go into the "legs" toward Rouge City.

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

I doubt that, but if I would, it would be because Williams would have made that piece sooooo much better then the original composer (who's name is completely unknown to me at this point) could have ever hope to do.

Actually, the whole post was designed to further annoy those who seem baffled by my lack of reference to the Classical greats. (yourself, Marian, Figsy, Voldemorn.)

Stefancos- getting ready for a nice cup of thea and a good book (the Company is heading for Moria.)

Stefancos, everyone knows that this is by the great Richard Strauss, the same one who wrote the famous Thus Spoke Zarathustra, used in the opening of 2001: A Sapce Odyssey. I'm not sure what track is in the promo... have to check.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stefancos, everyone knows that this is by the great Richard Strauss.

Evidentally you did not take my ignorance into account.

Stefancos- who could not care less about the music of that Nazi.

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

Stefancos, everyone knows that this is by the great Richard Strauss.

Evidentally you did not take my ignorance into account.

Stefancos- who could not care less about the music of that Nazi.

I'm not sure if he was a Nazi... I remember reading in a music history book that he did took advantage of the Nazi regime, but he wasn't really a Nazi.

Nevertheless he was a grgeat symphonic composer, and wrote many tone poems. Some of them are known to have directly influenced John Williams.

[Ross 1]

Your intentions do you credit, Miguel. But it is a lost cause. :roll:

Just let him be for now with his ignorance and proudness of it. It will strike him, maybe at his deathbed, that he's refused to open to a world of musical greatness.

-ROSS, well aware that the verb "appreciate" does not work in the imperative form.

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

-ROSS, well aware that the verb "appreciate" does not work in the imperative form.

Sad and true...

[DU Lou 1]

This debate is great and im glad I sparked it - however the question still stands whats the track # on the AI promo

Lou - not minding the lil segue

[Guest]

hi guys,

here is the answer you've so long waited in pain for...

the rosenkavalier by richard strauss is hidden in track 5 of the first AI Promo CD, at 4.11min

...be happy

[Dalboz 0]

This whole board is far too much fun to read ...

[ocelot 508]

Richard Strauss influenced Korgold greatly, and in turn influenced Williams.

An incredible composer. I listen to Don Juan all the time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Your intentions do you credit, Miguel. But it is a lost cause.  :roll:  

Just let him be for now with his ignorance and proudness of it. It will strike him, maybe at his deathbed, that he's refused to open to a world of musical greatness.

-ROSS, well aware that the verb "appreciate" does not work in the imperative form.

You are calling me ignorant because i do not wish to listen the work of a composer who was at the very least anti-semetic?

Stefancos- who thinks Ross should think before he writes such things, or not write at all.

[Morn 8]

LOL You think you are supporting antisemetism by listening to the music of an antisemite?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Better read my posts again, Voldemorn.

Stefancos- wondering if Figo was right?

[Morn 8]

I did read your posts, and I do not see why you have to have the same political views as the composer to enjoy his music. His music is good regardless of his views. And that is all that matters. So what is the problem with lsitening to his music? Do you think it supports antisemetism or something?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For me anti-semitism goes beyong mere difference in politics.

For me it is about ignorance and hatred.

Why should I listen to music of a man who would most likely hate me or my family?

Stefancos- :roll:

[Morn 8]

The music is an innocent victim here!

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

A little history note (again): Richard Strauss was friend of Max Steiner!

And have you ever heard about Finlandia by Sibelius? Well this was forbiden to be palyed due to being too patriotic -- at the time Finland was ocupied. Nevertheless, it could be played if with was under the title os "Inpronptu" (I'm not sure if it writes this way). So they were more afraid of the title, than the music it self. I think the problem here is more the less the same.

But i understand your concerns, Stefancos, even if I don't agree with you. I think that most of the times the meanings in music are explained by words (or images, in film music) than carried by the music it self.

Richard Strauss influenced Korgold greatly, and in turn influenced Williams.  

An incredible composer. I listen to Don Juan all the time.

There are two times in Superman were I can hear Strraus: The Planet Kripton fanfare, right after teh opening credits, sound, at least to me, a lot like the opening fanfare to Zarathustra. At least is an identical structure. And teh opening notes in "Can You Read My Mind" are teh same as in Strauss' Death and Transfiguration.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

A little history note (again): Richard Strauss was friend of Max Steiner!

And have you ever heard about Finlandia by Sibelius?

Yes' date=' it's on Michael Kamen's DIE HARD 2 soundtrack.

Well this was forbiden to be palyed due to being too patriotic -- at the time Finland was ocupied. Nevertheless' date=' it could be played if with was under the title os "Inpronptu" (I'm not sure if it writes this way). So they were more afraid of the title, than the music it self. I think the problem here is more the less the same. [/qoute']

I'm sorry, i'm not sure what you are trying to say, please explain.

But i understand your concerns' date=' Stefancos, even if I don't agree with you. I think that most of the times the meanings in music are explained by words (or images, in film music) than carried by the music it self.[/quote']

And I understand your opinion.

I do not hate Strauss, or his music, i just do not have any interest in either.

There are two times in Superman were I can hear Strraus: The Planet Kripton fanfare, right after teh opening credits, sound, at least to me, a lot like the opening fanfare to Zarathustra. At least is an identical structure.

I agree with you, but I must say that I have always thought Williams Krypton fanfare was far more interesting, although I do enjoy the raw power of Strauss' piece, especially in the film.

Stefancos- Who thinks he's sooner to have a meaningfull debate with Miguel then with Morn or Ross.

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

What I mean, with the example of Finlandia, is that we might be more concerned withwaht the composer wanted to express than with the music it self. Take the example of Zarathustra. Everyone knows this, at least the opening

But how many really know what is about? I know is about Nietzsh's Superman, but even so I never read it! So I try to apreaciate the music as is - no philosophy related. I know that this is like hearing a film score without knowing a thing about the film. But sometimes, when the music is really good (has it happens with Strauss), one can enjoy it.

And I didn't knew that the Finladia story was mentioned on Die Hard 2 cd. I knew that it was used on the film and presented on cd, but since I don't have that one on my collection...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Finlandia story is not mentioned in the CD liners, i ment that I had heard the piece itself, because it was in the film, and it's soundtrack.

I more or less agree with what you are saying, and i can listen to "Theme from 2001" (AKA Also Sprach Zaratustra ) without feeling any kind of anger and resentment.

Yet I feel no reason to explore more of his music, even less then with any "non"-film music composer out there.

Stefancos- who is not convinced that classical music and film music are the same (sorry, Marian)

[King Mark 3,631]

This whole board is far too much fun to read ...  

I hope you didn't read anything I posted yesterday.

K.M.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

If he did then i'm sure he did not understand it.

Stefancos- who is considering saving every one of KM's posts from now on.

[Lurker 5]

It makes sense that "Also Sprach Zarathustra" sounds similar to "The Planet Krypton" from Superman - The Movie, since the Strauss piece was inspired by the writings of Nietzsche, who wrote about the supposed "uber mensch" or "Superman". I always thought this was a deliberate homage.

Neil

[Miguel Andrade 1,265]

It makes sense that "Also Sprach Zarathustra" sounds similar to "The Planet Krypton" from Superman - The Movie, since the Strauss piece was inspired by the writings of Nietzsche, who wrote about the supposed "uber mensch" or "Superman".  I always thought this was a deliberate homage.

Neil

Me too

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Me 3.

Stefancos-

[Ross 1]

Stefancos- Who thinks he's sooner to have a meaningfull debate with Miguel then with Morn or Ross.  

I am not to have a debate with you because I couldn't care less about your musical tastes. After all, you let me be, why shouldn't I let you in turn?

-ROSS, who has never seeked to change people's minds.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

-ROSS, who has never seeked to change people's minds.

Only to ridicule them.

Just let him be for now with his ignorance and proudness of it. It will strike him, maybe at his deathbed, that he's refused to open to a world of musical greatness. - Ross.

Stefancos-

[Ross 1]

I'm being fair with you Steefy. So be fair with me. Aren't you proud of not liking classical music? If you aren't why do stress that point so much?

-ROSS, hoping this won't turn into a debate.

PS.- Yes you can use that "produness" quote as your signature j/k

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No, i am not proud of not liking "classical" music, neither am I ashamed of it.

I mainly mention it because several people on this MB seem intent of showing me the "supposed" error of my ways.

I have actually tried "classical" music by numerous composers several years back, it just did not hold my interest.

For me, film music and "classical" music are 2 completely different genres.

One I love, the other i am indifferent about.

As for Strauss, he's dead, so I have no problem with him. LOL

[ocelot 508]

They aren't that different really. If you listen to Korngold's film music and compare it to his classical music, they don't sound dissimilar. He writes in pretty much the same way. And his Opera's are like John Williams to the point that I start thinking about Horner and plagiarism.......

Now, you are entitled not to listen to Strauss because you think he was a Nazi or a Nazi supporter. I don't know if he was or wasn't and as you pointed out, whether he was or not, you don't like classical music. There's plenty of other types of music out there for you to listen to. I don't listen to Eminem because of the things he says in his lyrics eg: fag this, fag that, and he demeans his mother etc etc etc......

I love classical music, my partner loves country music. I can't stand country but to each his own. Enjoy whatever you listen to.

[Morn 8]

Listen to it some more steefy, it's not supposed to captivate you straight away. You are missing out on a lot, plus I don't think it matters if his antisemetism comes through in his music as difficult as it would be to do so, because then it becomes an incite into antisemites. I didn't think that point was necessary to bring up! And I still don't see why being an antisemite would make you not want to listen to his music. Is it some childish he wants to @#$% me so @#$% him? Tell me, if Williams was found to be an antisemite what would you do? You already know that his music is an entity of it's own too good to for go for reasons don't really achieve anything.

[ChrisAfonso 188]

But Steef, if you refuse to listen to The Planets at least once, where at least some movements sound strikingly like a film score (and are a whole of a lot better than anything Horner ever wrote, imho, and at least on par with Goldsmith), it is just stubborn, not indifferent

[ymenard 54]

People should consider film music on the same level as classical music for ballets. It's about the same thing. Somebody liking one cannot dislike the other, and vice-versa imho.

[IrishCal24 0]

But Steef, if you refuse to listen to The Planets at least once, where at least some movements sound strikingly like a film score (and are a whole of a lot better than anything Horner ever wrote, imho, and at least on par with Goldsmith), it is just stubborn, not indifferent

Perhaps Stefan is being stubborn; it's "human nature" to rebel against something which one feels is being forced upon them by another. Then again, perhaps he just enjoys getting a rise out of those don't understand his indifference.

Cal - who really has nothing useful to contribute to this thread, but felt like posting anyway.

Estranged - Guns N' Roses Use Your Illusion II

[The Five Tones 302]

I don't have the A.I. promo CD. Could someone who does email me the cut with the Rosenkavalier reference on it? I would love to have it outside of the film and the DVD menu!

You can send to cxi@sympatico.ca, Thanks!

the five tones, who enjoys the music of Beethoven & Wagner and the great conducting of Herbert von Karajan, who joined the Nazi party three times to keep his career going, and even Anton Webern whose comments and behaviour during the regime were somewhat regrettable -- but I have yet to rush out to see the films of Leni Riefenstahl...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[

Perhaps Stefan is being stubborn; it's "human nature" to rebel against something which one feels is being forced upon them by another.  Then again, perhaps he just enjoys getting a rise out of those don't understand his indifference.

You have more wisdom about you then I gave you credit for.

Stefancos- who's glad to hear someone make sense for a change.

[ChrisAfonso 188]

Ok, Steef, enjoy your human nature

[Morn 8]

Stefan is a slave of human nature.

[Lurker 5]

This is implying of course that Steef is indeed human.

Neil

[Ollie 1,059]

For the record I can't stand Classical music myself. I have a few albums but nothing that really perks my interest. Of course I hate Country & Western music so I always get the typical Texas attitude from people; You live in Texas and you hate Country & Western music?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

This is implying of course that Steef is indeed human.

Neil

That is a viscious lie, and a grave insult.

Stefancos- 8O

[IrishCal24 0]

I know what you mean Mark. I can't stand Country & Western music either, so I've experienced that attitude first hand. However, that attitude seems to be most often displayed by non-Texans who've grown up believing the common stereotypes about the state

[Guest]

We should all judge artists by their work and not by their character.

Alexandros Dumas, Richard Wagner, Dimitri Tiomkin had awful personalities. So what they were great.

Michael Jackson is obviously not very well mentally but he is a magnificent pop artist.

As far as classical music is concerned if a soundtrack fan doesnot listen to classical music he is undoubtely missing a lot. Don't forget that the Maestro's idols are all classical composers. Do you dare disagree with John Williams?

He knows a lot more than all of us combined.

8O