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The OFFICIAL The Dark Knight thread


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I watched it again just a few days ago, and the funny thing is, I think I have begun to dislike TDK's Gotham. Okay, I was never particularly taken by both of Nolan's Gothams....but after actually having been to Chicago a number of times, I just find it very hard to buy TDK's undisguised Chicago. Its not quite the same thing with Superman: The Movie's use of NYC either, because (at least to my mind) the real NYC embodies what Metropolis is about. Chicago just doesn't come to mind when I think Gotham....

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I'm not the biggest comic fan out there, but Batman and his setting are inextricably intertwined for me. Doesn't help that Burton's vision of Gotham was so captivating.

I'm not saying its a bad film because of it, but I was taken out of the film a few times when I vaguely recognized driving down those streets during Thanksgiving

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So are they going to make a third movie and not let it suck like Batman Forever?

If Nolan remains in command of the film I doubt it'll suck. Hopefully it won't be a Batman Forever disaster...gah.

If memory serves I think Nolan has said he doesn't want to bring Robin into the pictures if he continues to man the helm on them, simply because he didn't like Robin. That's why he hasn't been in any of the films yet.

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I watched it again just a few days ago, and the funny thing is, I think I have begun to dislike TDK's Gotham. Okay, I was never particularly taken by both of Nolan's Gothams....but after actually having been to Chicago a number of times, I just find it very hard to buy TDK's undisguised Chicago. Its not quite the same thing with Superman: The Movie's use of NYC either, because (at least to my mind) the real NYC embodies what Metropolis is about. Chicago just doesn't come to mind when I think Gotham....

Given Nolan's Gotham's rampant corruption I would think Chicago would be the perfect choice.

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If memory serves I think Nolan has said he doesn't want to bring Robin into the pictures if he continues to man the helm on them, simply because he didn't like Robin.

I think it was Tim Burton who said that. If memory serves, Nolan does not want to bring Robin into the pictures because he thinks Batman is not ready to have a sidekick.

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I'm not the biggest comic fan out there, but Batman and his setting are inextricably intertwined for me. Doesn't help that Burton's vision of Gotham was so captivating.

The Gotham from the comics was actually originally based on Chicago.

I think it was Tim Burton who said that. If memory serves, Nolan does not want to bring Robin into the pictures because he thinks Batman is not ready to have a sidekick.

I think it has more to do with Robin not fitting in to Nolan's more realistic vision.

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I'm not too familiar with Chicago, so that didn't bug me. However, where I once complained about Gotham's lack of character in Begins, TDK makes me pine for it. Now, granted, I thought the Narrows were more dead-on than a lot of the main city stuff in Begins, but even some of the city footage in the climax just feels right on (particularly the section where Batman is hanging from the monorail). TDK, IMO, stretched the whole "grounded in reality" thing to its absolute limits. I don't want it to get any more "realistic" than TDK. In that film, not only did we have no Batcave or Wayne Manor to give us an atmospheric point of reference, but there was a lot more daytime action as well. I understand that they were trying to show that Batman is helping to improve Gotham, but it didn't strike me as quite so Gotham-y, even a cleaned up Gotham.

As for a third film, I deeply want them to make it. As I've said before, I think they would really benefit from at least completing a three-film arc, and then if they want to leave it, they can, but there's room for whoever is willing to tackle it if that is desired. I understand that some people feel that there's a great two-film arc as it is, but I just strongly disagree.

First off, Batman is in a situation that he has not been in for any extended, status quo kind of time period: he is not only at least suspected of murder, but also the murder of cops. This goes beyond any mixed opinions in the public just because he's a vigilante; the cops are blatantly stating this outright. Not only is he seen as a cop-killer, but he's considered such in order to preserve the reputation of Harvey Dent, the man who actually committed the murders. There are at least six living people who know that the public story is not the truth, and one of them would just love to rub this falsehood in the faces of our protagonists. You've already got a big dilemma right there. Then throw in the fact that the city has just suffered major violence at the hands of a madman, organized crime is in shambles with freaks coming out of the woodworks, and Batman is now on the run. He has suffered the death of the woman he loved and the corruption (and death? Do I want to open this can of worms again?) of a man he had come to care for and respect, and no matter how justified his own actions may have been, he feels some responsibility for both. With the cops after him full time now, how does Batman operate? How does he correspond with Gordon? I want to see those scenes of him lurking in the shadows, waiting until Gordon's the only one there, and they can talk. I want to explore the emotional effects that this situation has on these men. There's so much material. I understand leaving Batman to his quest for the rest of his life, but I want some degree of closure--at least get everything established. But this is not a status quo situation--this is a cliffhanger. If David Goyer and the Nolan brothers can't come up with a fine story out of this dramatic goldmine they've set up for themselves, well...maybe it's time to take up a new occupation.

Beyond story and character reasons, there are personal satisfaction issues as well. At the end of Begins, Bruce and Alfred mentioned taking advantage of the rebuilding of Wayne Manor in order to make improvements to the foundations on the southeast wing--the Batcave. I want to see this. I want to see all of the hints and foundations come to completion. I want to leave Batman, not with a Batpod, but a Batpod and a Batmobile. I want to see a fully-developed and established Batman. Then, if you want to leave it, okay. But as far as I'm concerned, this incarnation of Batman is still incomplete.

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Good points. Both Batman Begins and TDK are very much their own stories as far as direct sequels go, and for that reason I don't think a sequel has to be made to finish TDK's story. The Dark Knight as a film doesn't need a sequel the way Empire Strikes Back or The Two Towers did, it's story is complete and has resolution. What a sequel would offer, and what I think should be done, is give Batman himself full resolution (as much as it can be given the character's longevity), something he doesn't have as is. After all the over-arching story of these movies has been about Batman/Bruce Wayne's progress.

Here's a very interesting article detailing where the story could go from here:

http://www.firstshowing.net/2009/06/27/chr...ends-with-time/

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I'm not the biggest comic fan out there, but Batman and his setting are inextricably intertwined for me. Doesn't help that Burton's vision of Gotham was so captivating.

The Gotham from the comics was actually originally based on Chicago.

Yes I know, but I never felt like the relationship was that close personally. Again, I speak as just a casual fan, and Burton's dark gothic Gotham did have a big impact on me.

However, where I once complained about Gotham's lack of character in Begins, TDK makes me pine for it.

Exactly the way I feel about that aspect of the film

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