The Spiderwick Chronicles (James Horner) on Itunes...

[odnurega1 0]

Hey All!

I was browsing on itunes tonight, and I came across "The Spiderwick Chronicles". It's the full album, and it is for sale already. Is this normal? I know they release things early sometimes, but this seems really early. As for the score, I have only listened to a few 30-second previews, and it seems like Horner is going back into what he does best (IMO)...childrens scores.

What do you think?

-odnurega1

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I have it, but I haven't listened yet.

[scissorhands 16]

I've been listening to it for a week now. My favorite score of 2007... or is it 2008?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well it's probably the first score of 2008 that you've listened to. Better wait a little longer to make you're favorites.

[Jacob 0]

I just listened to it and wasn't very impressed. Maybe I'll think differently if I see the movie or give it some more time.

Not to open this can of worms again (too late), but most of the parts that stood out to me on first listen were 'Hornerisms' I recognized from his other work. If I'm not mistaken there where bits from (or very similar to) An American Tale/Jumanji, Willow, The Rocketeer, and Casper (I thought I recognized in a counterpoint melody something from Zorro but that's probably going too far).

But thankfully no danger motif or shakuhachi flute!

It was a pleasant listen but ultimately more of the same old same old.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

That's what Horner is known for, stealing from himself, and everyone always gives Hans a hard time when he does it. It's called style people!

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Clearly, there's a difference between maintaining a style or "sound" and outright regurgitation of your own (or others') material.

[King Mark 3,631]

Clearly, there's a difference between maintaining a style or "sound" and outright regurgitation of your own (or others') material.

Yes,as Williams does

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Clearly, there's a difference between maintaining a style or "sound" and outright regurgitation of your own (or others') material.

Taking a particular theme and building on it isn't regurgitation. Horner does the exact same thing, same with Thomas Newman.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I don't really see the merit in slowly building up a theme across several films...it doesn't seem like such a technique would lend itself to creating the most appropriate music for each individual film.

[publicist 4,643]

I don't really see the merit in slowly building up a theme across several films...it doesn't seem like such a technique would lend itself to creating the most appropriate music for each individual film.

'Spiderwick' is just boring. Nothing to do with stolen themes. God, when they even get a tunesmith like Horner to cook low on the themes, where does this lead us!?!

[Morlock 11]

Clearly, there's a difference between maintaining a style or "sound" and outright regurgitation of your own (or others') material.

Taking a particular theme and building on it isn't regurgitation. Horner does the exact same thing, same with Thomas Newman.

That would be true, if only....it were not true.

[Jacob 0]

I really don't think Horner built on any themes with this. The bits from his other work are just sort of there. The most blatant I can tell is what sounds like a direct rip from Casper, which IMO is just distracting at best even though it is a nice theme.

BTW, I listened to The Wrath of Khan again and realized the ideas I had ascribed to Willow and The Rocketeer really originated with Trek II.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'd rather have a new Horner score that sounds like this rather than some of his other recent efforts

[crocodile 8,027]

I'm listening to it right now. No blatant hornerisms that I can spot. But then again I'm not familiar with his children scores. The thing that struck me most is how much of this music is intense and even brutal at times. And all of this doesn't sound like him at all, for most of the time. Odd thing, this album. But I like it, sort of.

Karol, not hearing any obvious themes at all, which is kind of refreshing for a 70-minute Horner album.

[Jacob 0]

What would you call a hornerism?

[crocodile 8,027]

Apart from shakuhachi (I'm sure I misspell this one) blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motif, and other such things? I would say that obvious passages from his different past work mixed together. If there are some in The Spiderwick Chronicles then I probably don't know these. Or better yet, they don't distract or irriatate me. So far.

Karol, not familiar with Casper.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

What would you call a hornerism?

Da-na-na-nahhhhhh!!!

No danger motif in this score though.

The Spiderwick Chronicles isn't particularly bad, but there are other far superior Horner efforts out there. I own everything Horner has ever done that has been made available in one form or another, so it's very unlikely I will go for this when I have Horner scores like Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Krull, Cocoon, The Journey of Natty Gann, Aliens, An American Tail, Project X, Willow, The Land Before Time, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Glory, The Rocketeer, The Pagemaster, Legends of the Fall, Braveheart, Casper, Apollo 13, etc available to me. All massively superior to The Spiderwick Chronicles.

[Salacius 7]

What would you call a hornerism?

Da-na-na-nahhhhhh!!!

No danger motif in this score though.

The Spiderwick Chronicles isn't particularly bad, but there are other far superior Horner efforts out there. I own everything Horner has ever done that has been made available in one form or another, so it's very unlikely I will go for this when I have Horner scores like Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, Something Wicked This Way Comes, Krull, Cocoon, The Journey of Natty Gann, Aliens, An American Tail, Project X, Willow, The Land Before Time, Honey, I Shrunk the Kids, Glory, The Rocketeer, The Pagemaster, Legends of the Fall, Braveheart, Casper, Apollo 13, etc available to me. All massively superior to The Spiderwick Chronicles.

Damn, it all came back to me. The man has written some trully awesome scores!!

[Jacob 0]

Apart from shakuhachi (I'm sure I misspell this one) blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motif, and other such things? I would say that obvious passages from his different past work mixed together. If there are some in The Spiderwick Chronicles then I probably don't know these. Or better yet, they don't distract or irriatate me. So far.

Karol, not familiar with Casper.

I've listened to the Closing Credits a couple more times and am noticing more subtle variations. I have to say I already have a better impression. The theme that sounds like Casper can be heard in Closing Credits at about 2:21-28, 37-44. Also in the same track there's a flourish between 10 and 13 seconds in that I consider a Hornerism. Variations that I know of have been used in Khan, Willow, and Troy. And at about 3:27 an ostinato starts that reminds me of the love theme from Zorro and then the part that reminds me of Jumanji comes in.

I'm not saying Horner is a hack or what not. And I don't mean to make a big deal out of it. These are just little things I notice that kind of take me out of the experience.

And now the first part of the main theme is reminding me of the love theme from At World's End. I'm hopeless.

What would you call a hornerism?

Da-na-na-nahhhhhh!!!

Ooh! I scared!

Damn, it all came back to me. The man has written some trully awesome scores!!

Exactly. Except truly has only one L.

[odnurega1 0]

Wow...I didn't look at this thread for a while, and I've had some catching up to do. I've been busy so the only thing I have been able to listen to is the Closing Credits, with the Casper music very blantantly included. Definitely what everyone has been calling a "Hornerism".

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

So boom-tizz, rambling low strings, rapid fire cathedral trumpets, the Tragic Muted Brass™ from Nixon to Revenge of the Sith, the chopping orchestra "tense action" motif ....are style.

But....

Shakuhachi blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motifs....those are Hornerisms.

Bull F'in garbagio.

Horner's main problem is the blatant reuse of actual themes (I.E. such as Bicentennial man in Beautiful Mind, or Amazing Stories and ST: III). That's Hornerism, that's lifting and ripping off. Shakuhachi, pianos, danger motifs are stylistic devices.

Every composer, has those stylistic devices, you just have to drop your double standard and hear it.

And you know what, even if the man has copied every single note he has ever written, at the very least, he has 10 times the sense of structure and musical aesthetics/presentation than 99% of composers out there. His music has never ever sounded bad to my ears, not even his worst.

[Jacob 0]

Williamsism is just harder to say.

I think in my relatively limited film score exposure Horner's stylistic devices are possibly overused and more obvious or at least easier for me to pick up on. I seem to get more instances of déjà vu listening to him than most other composers.

Even though Williams is my favorite I still couldn't tell you what boom-tizz is (or most those other devices). If someone pointed out specific examples I'd probably get it. I know that the greater my exposure gets the more I come to see Blumenkohl's point.

And I have to add that James Horner has always been one of my favorites. I should praise him more than I rag on him. Even right now I'm having a great time listening to The Mask of Zorro. Really great stuff.

[Salacius 7]

So boom-tizz, rambling low strings, rapid fire cathedral trumpets, the Tragic Muted Brass™ from Nixon to Revenge of the Sith, the chopping orchestra "tense action" motif ....are style.

But....

Shakuhachi blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motifs....those are Hornerisms.

Bull F'in garbagio.

Horner's main problem is the blatant reuse of actual themes (I.E. such as Bicentennial man in Beautiful Mind, or Amazing Stories and ST: III). That's Hornerism, that's lifting and ripping off. Shakuhachi, pianos, danger motifs are stylistic devices.

Every composer, has those stylistic devices, you just have to drop your double standard and hear it.

And you know what, even if the man has copied every single note he has ever written, at the very least, he has 10 times the sense of structure and musical aesthetics/presentation than 99% of composers out there. His music has never ever sounded bad to my ears, not even his worst.

Dunno why but it didn't bother me all that much repeating him self as long as the scores reflected the movie and sounded great.

But the quality dropped at some point. He lost his excitement as a composer and this is when I lost interest in him.

Thing is his best are still way better than anything I can hear today from new composers.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Dunno why but it didn't bother me all that much repeating him self as long as the scores reflected the movie and sounded great.

But the quality dropped at some point. He lost his excitement as a composer and this is when I lost interest in him.

Thing is his best are still way better than anything I can hear today from new composers.

I agree. It's like all these comparisons of his work to Hans Zimmer's that are consistently being made. Hans Zimmer has produced a number of decent scores, both past and present. His last Pirates of the Caribbean score was a vast improvement over the previous and a massive improvement over the original. That being said however, Zimmer hasn't ever and won't ever be in Horner's league. Zimmer himself has even praised Horner and said on record that he is a far more talented composer then himself.

Have you folks ever heard of Mark Mckenzie?

The Music of Mark Mckenzie

He is one of my favourite more recent composers. I really hope he makes it big. He wholeheartedly deserves too.

I have a great deal of his scores already, and they really are a breath of fresh air compared to the typical dreck coming from most composers these days.

Even his made for TV scores put most Hollywood efforts today to shame.

[David Coscina 4]

Just bought it and am listening to it. While I still think Horner is a reprehensible little creep he does have a lot of skill. This score reflects this. Yeah, there's other odes to Phil Glass here and there, but nothing I cannot cite as pure rip-off. And his orchestrations are quite exciting on this. Stuff I have not heard him do in ages....probably since the late '80s to mid-'90s. Hearing this makes me wonder what he would have done for a Potter installment. We all know he could ape Williams' style for continuity.

oops, I just heard a quote from Land Before Time.. damn you Jimmy! I want to believe in the magic. Now I'm hearing that i-V-i cadence for the millionth time. Oh well. I still like it!

[Salacius 7]

Dunno why but it didn't bother me all that much repeating him self as long as the scores reflected the movie and sounded great.

But the quality dropped at some point. He lost his excitement as a composer and this is when I lost interest in him.

Thing is his best are still way better than anything I can hear today from new composers.

I agree. It's like all these comparisons of his work to Hans Zimmer's that are consistently being made. Hans Zimmer has produced a number of decent scores, both past and present. His last Pirates of the Caribbean score was a vast improvement over the previous and a massive improvement over the original. That being said however, Zimmer hasn't ever and won't ever be in Horner's league. Zimmer himself has even praised Horner and said on record that he is a far more talented composer then himself.

Have you folks ever heard of Mark Mckenzie?

The Music of Mark Mckenzie

He is one of my favourite more recent composers. I really hope he makes it big. He wholeheartedly deserves too.

I have a great deal of his scores already, and they really are a breath of fresh air compared to the typical dreck coming from most composers these days.

Even his made for TV scores put most Hollywood efforts today to shame.

Yeah I agree, also about Zimmer's last Pirates. It had some very brutal moments.

Thanks for the link to Mark McKenzie. He is very good. Not blown away though (I'm hard to please : )

I see he has also orchestrated some awesome scores

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Thanks for the link to Mark McKenzie. He is very good. Not blown away though (I'm hard to please : )

I see he has also orchestrated some awesome scores

Salacius, if you haven't done so already... I would recommend getting hold of the following scores by him:

Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde

The Lost Child

The Disappearance Of Garcia Lorca

Durango

Blizzard

The Last Sin Eater

An excellent selection of his work.

[King Mark 3,631]

I listened to it

It's not bad

I some tracks near the end Horner seems to really kick into gear like i haven't heard in a long time(the flight of the griffin,escape from the glade,end credits)

Too bad the only real melody in it is the theme from Casper

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You mean the piano theme from Casper?

[Luke Skywalker 1,798]

So boom-tizz, rambling low strings, rapid fire cathedral trumpets, the Tragic Muted Brass™ from Nixon to Revenge of the Sith, the chopping orchestra "tense action" motif ....are style.

But....

Shakuhachi blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motifs....those are Hornerisms.

Bull F'in garbagio.

Horner's main problem is the blatant reuse of actual themes (I.E. such as Bicentennial man in Beautiful Mind, or Amazing Stories and ST: III). That's Hornerism, that's lifting and ripping off. Shakuhachi, pianos, danger motifs are stylistic devices.

Every composer, has those stylistic devices, you just have to drop your double standard and hear it.

IMHO the case of the danger motif is not a stylism. Its a motif, and always portraits the same thing, danger evil, etc.

Williams flute flourishes for example, are mostly always the same notes. But it is part of the orchestration, not a theme for a character/situation for all his scores.

[Salacius 7]

Thanks for the link to Mark McKenzie. He is very good. Not blown away though (I'm hard to please : )

I see he has also orchestrated some awesome scores

Salacius, if you haven't done so already... I would recommend getting hold of the following scores by him:

Dr. Jekyll and Ms. Hyde

The Lost Child

The Disappearance Of Garcia Lorca

Durango

Blizzard

The Last Sin Eater

An excellent selection of his work.

Hey thanks,

I will check them out!

[Ollie 1,059]

Half of me says this could be the first Horner score I've bought in 10 years.

Then the smart side kicks and.....yawn...same boring drivel....listening to these cues I feel if I've composed them myself. I know where the musical ideas are going before I hear them.

Horner is just boring, his music has gotten so predictable and bland. And that is the major problem I have with him, I don't care about the continous recycling of music or "stealing". His music is just boring.

[Morlock 11]

Durango has lovely themes. Very Horner-ish, but the main theme holds.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Horner is just boring, his music has gotten so predictable and bland. And that is the major problem I have with him, I don't care about the continous recycling of music or "stealing". His music is just boring.

Yes.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

So boom-tizz, rambling low strings, rapid fire cathedral trumpets, the Tragic Muted Brass™ from Nixon to Revenge of the Sith, the chopping orchestra "tense action" motif ....are style.

But....

Shakuhachi blasts, kena or pan flute-driven rythms, crashing pianos, four-note danger motifs....those are Hornerisms.

Bull F'in garbagio.

Horner's main problem is the blatant reuse of actual themes (I.E. such as Bicentennial man in Beautiful Mind, or Amazing Stories and ST: III). That's Hornerism, that's lifting and ripping off. Shakuhachi, pianos, danger motifs are stylistic devices.

Every composer, has those stylistic devices, you just have to drop your double standard and hear it.

IMHO the case of the danger motif is not a stylism. Its a motif, and always portraits the same thing, danger evil, etc.

Williams flute flourishes for example, are mostly always the same notes. But it is part of the orchestration, not a theme for a character/situation for all his scores.

But to be fair, Williams has that Ludlows Demise action motif...

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Durango has lovely themes. Very Horner-ish, but the main theme holds.

I thought exactly the same thing. Durango is a really good score.

[Hitch 57]

That's what Horner is known for, stealing from himself, and everyone always gives Hans a hard time when he does it. It's called style people!

I'd take a new Horner score over a Zimmer score any day of the week. Correction: list Zimmer as....missing.