Star Trek X: Nemesis

[Goldsmithfan 6]

where is zero stars, awful dreadful score, Jerry's obviously affected by his cancer, because this is a disaster.

Bad film, terrible score. Completely and utterly inappropriate usage of themes.

Have you even given the nearly complete score a listen? That's kind of a bad thing to say about the score.

For me I love the score and I gave it a solid five stars. I will admit it took a while to grew on me when the OST came out however when the nearly complete score leaked I really loved it then. Some of the best parts from the nearly complete score were left off the album.

BTW Drax, Nemesis is my second favorite TNG film, the first will always be First Contact.

its a piece of crap score, and I've heard the complete score in the film, its so bad. JG was so tired of ST at that point the way JW was of SW. There is no life in it. Jerry just throws the klingon theme as Worf's theme, when it is not. Sadly this is one of JG's last scores, he didn't go out on a high note.

Actually, it's been reported that Jerry loved Nemesis and said that it was his favorite of the Star Trek films. (According to the final installment of the Jerry Goldsmith CD guide from FSM) Not only that, but he didn't once use the Klingon theme in Nemesis.

Personally, I love this score. It was such a drastically different and austere take on Star Trek music that I didn't know quite how to take it at first. I can only assume that's why it gets such a bad rap. It wasn't what anyone expected. It's certainly one of the most avant garde scores out of the five Goldsmith composed for the series, if not THE most. To me, it sounds like Jerry said to hell with convention and did what he felt was right. Listen to this and Timeline and you can hear his sound going in an absolutely sublime, new direction. If only we could have heard more of it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Nemesis is not more avant garde then the Vejur music from TMP.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

First Contact is my favorite Next Gen score. I think Joel and Jerry's music work well together and I like the Borg theme.

I found both their music melded well together, I couldn't really hear a difference.

[222max 1]

It's 3 stars as it works in the film. 2.5 stars as an album (and I have the complete version). If Star Trek TMP is 5 stars I would say that's a justifiable rating.

It is typical of Goldsmith's intelligent approach to scoring a film but has a workman-like quality which keeps it from ever becoming thrilling (although there are some moments of either wondrous beauty or aggressive action). Goldsmith could have done better but there are a couple of factors to keep in mind. One, Goldsmith was EXTREMELY ill at the time and struggled to finish the score. For that his effort is almost heroic. Second, Stuart Baird directed this movie in such a sterile, mechanical fashion that the lack of energy hardly gave Goldsmith anything to play against. When watching the movie with Baird's commentary going it's amazing how he basically "constructs" a film rather than expresses any real point of view. Every scene was like, "And so we used a wide angle lens here and set the pyrotechnics to blah, blah, blah" or "this scene came on the last day of shooting and we put this light over here and that light over there". Compare that to the insightful and passionate commentary Paul Verhoeven offers on the Hollow Man commentary. If that's the level of creative commentary Stuart was able to give Goldsmith it's a wonder the score did was it was able to do.

[publicist 4,643]

When i heard the 'Nemesis' score in the film, i just knew that Goldsmith certainly hadn't lost anything...illness or not. The orchestration is really bare bones and it doesn't sound very exciting because of this, but how he spins a web of ideas from the central theme and writes a whole 80-minutes-score around this is ingenious.

Not a colorful 'adventure' score, but a brooding, monothematic gloomy score. I like it!

[tharpdevenport 4]

The film was horrible. That film and the Enterprise spin-off series really put me off new Trek. The final nail in the coffin was this upcoming prequel.

Not a single piece of music caught my attention while watching the film -- a film, I might add, I almost walked out of half-way through. That has never happened to me when watching a Trek film for the first time.

Sometimes it seems liek a knee-jerk reaction for Goldsmith fans to defend anything he does.

[Trent B 337]

Sad to see so many people hating the film.

[King Mark 3,631]

Sometimes it seems liek a knee-jerk reaction for Goldsmith fans to defend anything he does.

Exactly. I'd don't even defend everything Williams does.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What about different people having different tastes?

[tharpdevenport 4]

One day you wake up and realize some tastes ARE better than others.

Unless of course you thought that painting of the virgin mary using elephant sh!t was really art.

[John Crichton 4]

I think Insurrection is the weakest Goldsmith Trek score, even in it's expanded form.

I would agree with that.

As woud I. I'd also call it the weakest Next Gen, McCarthy's Generations is a fine score.

As for First Contact, I love it. It's a wonderfully cohesive score considerding two people worked on it, I'd have a hard time telling the Jerry and Joel cues apart as well. Definately the best Next Gen, and there are times that I'd rate it higher than Final Frontier on Jerry's Trek list.

[222max 1]

When i heard the 'Nemesis' score in the film, i just knew that Goldsmith certainly hadn't lost anything...illness or not. The orchestration is really bare bones and it doesn't sound very exciting because of this, but how he spins a web of ideas from the central theme and writes a whole 80-minutes-score around this is ingenious.

Not a colorful 'adventure' score, but a brooding, monothematic gloomy score. I like it!

Goldsmith is a master of this very thing... better than anyone else I can think of. Total Recall is a masterpiece of complex thematic structure and variation.

[publicist 4,643]

Sometimes it seems liek a knee-jerk reaction for Goldsmith fans to defend anything he does.

It is up for debate if someone who's obviously hoarding music like a hamster without any apparent quality matrix is fit to tell people off because of their likings.

'Nemesis' is far from disgraceful, period. To dislike it because it's old news for Goldsmith is another matter.

[tharpdevenport 4]

IT's a disgrace to the franchise and a very lack-luster ending to one of the greatest film composers to have ever lived.

"Nemesis", "Timeline" ... should be ignored. In point of fact, anything after "Insurrection".

[Trent B 337]

It's not a disgrace to the franchise. Geez, people are so harsh on somethings.

Heaven forbid people actually love the movie and the score.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

The movie could have been so much better. Its a shame Frakes didn't direct it, maybe he would have done better. I dont know where I heard it but I liked the idea of Patrick Stewart playing his clone. Hell it would have been a lot more interesting than what we got.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I think Insurrection is the weakest Goldsmith Trek score, even in it's expanded form.

It's Goldsmith's strongest TNG score, in my opinion. The official album is weak though.

[King Mark 3,631]

I don;t think it's worse because he was sick or dying .It just follow the progression of his scores becoming more and more streamlined and less listenable on their own .

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I think Insurrection is the weakest Goldsmith Trek score, even in it's expanded form.

I would agree with that.

I'm also not crazy about First Contact and never understood all the love that score receives. First show, opening day I knew there was something wrong with it just by listening to it. Then I found out Jerry wasn't able to devote himself fully to the project and it all made sense.

I think something about Nemesis inspired him in ways that the other TNG films didn't.

Neil

You can think that....but you would be incorrect.

MrM

[222max 1]

I don;t think it's worse because he was sick or dying .It just follow the progression of his scores becoming more and more streamlined and less listenable on their own .

I have to disagree. Of course his illness had an effect, though even at that, it's still a much more intelligently crafted piece than most others are capable of today. And as far as what is listenable, that's purely a subjective point. Streamlining is not in itself a bad thing. I for one do not automatically equate quality with the number of notes crunched into a composition. Goldsmith simply learned to paint with a broader stroke as he entered the later period of his career. Saying just as much, if not more, with less. He had distilled his technique down to its bare essence the way a master calligrapher can with a simple gesture. This is, in some ways, more difficult than filling every minute of music with busy ornamentation.

Goldsmith understood that his purpose and mission was, foremost, to score the movie, not sell CDs or make things that would later stand alone in a concert hall. I think too many of John Williams' pieces are very self conscious about doing that.

Goldsmith went a different direction towards elegant simplicity (while never being minimalist) while Williams chose to explore the extreme density of the orchestra. It's interesting that there are both to study. But both are equally valid and yes, listenable.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

One day you wake up and realize some tastes ARE better than others.

Yep, my tastes are better than yours. Because I say so.