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Jerry Goldsmith's Final Conflict


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I know Goldsmith did compose actually canatas for the concert hall but listening to The Final Conflict Deluxe Edition has me thinking that this was one of Goldsmith's finest scores. It easily outdoes the first two Omen scores with its breadth of themes, orchestration and variety. In fact, I would say this is one of Jerry's finest scores of his career. The Second Coming has got to be one of my all time favorite film score cues as it marries the religious theme so beautifully with some newer material. It's an outstanding cue.

I just recently bought this having lived with the original crumby recording that Varese put out in the '90s and the improvement in the sound is just the tip of the ice berg as to why this is such a great score.

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Without a shadow of a doubt. Trial Run, The Monastery (Goldsmith in full Bruckner mode), The Second Coming and The Hunt alone would elevate any score to the top of Goldsmith's output, but the rest is

Wow...it's rare for people here to get so descriptive and united behind a score. I've got to find this one somewhere.

I'd say there hasn't been a whole lot of scores in the past 10 years that have come close to Final Conflict.

I agree, incredible score. Love Damien's theme, but "The Second Coming" and "The Final Conflict" are just awesome. I read in the Varese DE liner notes that five minutes were cut from "The Final Conflict" for the original album. Can't imagine that cue being cut down like that.

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I just got the remastered trilogy, and was once again dumb-founded but how great this score was. It's a cliche that Jerry scored crap as if it were a masterpiece....but I don't think I've ever heard a score quite so good for crap. There are the obvious highlights- The Main titles, The Hunt, The Second Coming- which are amazing, but after not listening to the rest of the score for a while, I was shocked at how much good material there is there. I must've listened to 'The Monastary' at least five times in a row when I got the new album.

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I was so happy when Varese remastered all 3 of The Omen scores. The Final Conflict is fantastic and one does indeed expect a much better film when listening to it.

The Second Coming is the one cue I wanted to hear remastered. The old album is just atrocious as far as the sound goes.

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In fact, I would say this is one of Jerry's finest scores of his career.

Without a shadow of a doubt. Trial Run, The Monastery (Goldsmith in full Bruckner mode), The Second Coming and The Hunt alone would elevate any score to the top of Goldsmith's output, but the rest is damn good, too.

I just recently bought this having lived with the original crumby recording that Varese put out in the '90s and the improvement in the sound is just the tip of the ice berg as to why this is such a great score.

The first time I listened to The Monastery on the new album, I very nearly cried.

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In fact, I would say this is one of Jerry's finest scores of his career.

Without a shadow of a doubt. Trial Run, The Monastery (Goldsmith in full Bruckner mode), The Second Coming and The Hunt alone would elevate any score to the top of Goldsmith's output, but the rest is damn good, too.

I just recently bought this having lived with the original crumby recording that Varese put out in the '90s and the improvement in the sound is just the tip of the ice berg as to why this is such a great score.

The first time I listened to The Monastery on the new album, I very nearly cried.

Wow...it's rare for people here to get so descriptive and united behind a score. I've got to find this one somewhere.

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You know, this score is over 25 years old and it still blows me away. There has been NOTHING out this summer that even comes close to this. NOTHING. Not even Williams' Indy 4 is this good. Admittedly, Goldsmith himself stopped writing like this in his twilight years so I suppose it does speak more about the Hollywood system than anything else. But Goldsmith proved that a crappy film does not necessarily warrant a crappy score. If anyone is carrying on the tradition of approaching crap with great music it's James Newton Howard. Parts of The Happening are easily my favorite music cues from this summer's crop of scores. It's inspired and evocative. I replay Be With You and End Titles often. I do not do that with Indy 4, Hancock, The Incredible Hulk (POS in my opinion), Wanted, Hellboy 2 ( I prefer Beltrami's original) or anything else to come out of the summer.

But getting back to Goldsmith, The Final Conflict to me is his finest score of the franchise. It's operatic, dramatic, and his chordal sacred writing is about as good as it gets. Any time I think Goldsmith lacked the same technical abilities as Williams, I just have to listen to this score, or First Blood or Papillon and I realize he was just as solid of a composer- just different.

I do think James Newton Howard is the sole heir to Goldsmith's legacy. If you have ever heard him interviewed, he's a very intelligent, articulate person. I do hope Howard continues his ascent towards greatness as I do think he's the best apt to carry on Jerry's legacy.

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I'd say there hasn't been a whole lot of scores in the past 10 years that have come close to Final Conflict.

Yeah, I would tend to agree with this. I was honestly blown away today while driving around for work whilst listening to this amazing score. I was floored. I would say that even Goldsmith's much lauded Star Trek The Motion Picture does not evoke the same level of delight as The final Conflict.

Oh, and just a little anecdote- I was 13 when I saw this film in the theatre (weird that it was rated PG considering some of the violent content) and that damn burnt baby gave me nightmares for a damned week!

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I would say that even Goldsmith's much lauded Star Trek The Motion Picture does not evoke the same level of delight as The final Conflict.

The only reason I got STTMP signed and not FC was because the STTMP cover seemed to lend itself better to the task. If I'd gotten another chance, it would certainly have been FC (or perhaps Total Recall).

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I'm assuming those who love MV would not care for the complex harmonies, the unsettling dissonances, and overt atonal passages that Goldsmith employed for TFC. Also, there's way too much subtlety in this score for those rock anthem loving cretins. :lol:

Beautifully put.

No. Just the usual intolerant BS.

I always thought that 'Final Conflict' is a beautiful 'would-be'-prelude to a grand Goldsmith opus á la 'Lord of the Rings'. Unfortunately, operatic proportions were the last thing films like 'Chain Reaction' or 'Along came a Spider' needed and that's pretty much Goldsmith's later career (with a few exceptions). Maybe if he would've done some computer games, but alas, it wasn't to be.

Ironically, the Rivendell material from Howard Shore seems to quote 'Final Conflict' almost verbatim, at least the rising/falling string figure.

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No offense to Shore, but The Final Conflict is much much better in terms of choral writing than LOTR. I doubt Goldsmith would have composed music at this level in 2001 though, were he tapped to score that project. I heard Horner was interested and I would have liked to have heard that. Wojciech Kilar was also supposed to score it although I'm not sure he would have had the patience to score a 12 hour film.

My current pick for LOTR would have gone to Christopher Gordon as he writes beautiful choral music (he himself was a chorister) as well as theme laden pieces. His Moby Dick score still floors me. In fact, it's about the only "current" score that does. Wish he'd get more work.

But a 1980 Jerry Goldsmith score for Lord of the Rings would have been totally wicked.

Oh, I and apologize to those MV fans. I know many of you have diverse listening tastes and love vintage Goldsmith as much as the rest of us. :lol:

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Oh, I and apologize to those MV fans. I know many of you have diverse listening tastes and love vintage Goldsmith as much as the rest of us. :lol:

Oh don't apologize for anything, the music is awful.

Yes Goldsmith from the 70's to early 80's would have been great for LOTR. I still wonder what Basil Poledouris could have done with LOTR.

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I wonder what a non-testosterone loaded Poledouris score sounds like. It makes me sad that he didn't get nearly as many opportunities as he should have (Bugged the hell out of him, from what I understand).

Oh, I and apologize to those MV fans. I know many of you have diverse listening tastes and love vintage Goldsmith as much as the rest of us. :lol:

Oh don't apologize for anything, the music is awful.

Be that as it may, some of us love Goldsmith and like MV. I do resent the implications that because I like Kingdom of Heaven, The Italian Job, The Lion King, The Rock, et al., I must not like Goldsmith......

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Yes indeed, we shouldn't all be tainted with the same brush.

Goldsmith's superior score makes this film watchable, some great set pieces considerably enhanced by definitely my favourite Goldsmith score.

I could wax rhapsodic for hours about The Final Conflict! :)

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No. Just the usual intolerant BS.

Yes, we shall promote tolerance of musical taste in the next Civil Rights bill.

If that's a try at sarcasm, it missed. The point is that a lot of this childish name-calling and naysaying of everything related to everything vaguely connected to Hans Zimmer is just as pathetic as a 300-pound man trying to win Washington's Birthday Marathon. It's plain ignorant and betrays the lack of knowledge about a healthy dose of this stuff which actually is good enough for what it is, i. e. 'Paycheck', some of the 'Bourne' scores, 'Da Vinci Code', parts of 'Hannibal', parts of 'PtC III', 'Kingdom of Heaven'...hell, even 'K2' is an interesting listen.

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Yes you would like it. No, it's not difficult to get into.

I wonder what a non-testosterone loaded Poledouris score sounds like. It makes me sad that he didn't get nearly as many opportunities as he should have (Bugged the hell out of him, from what I understand).

Actually, from what I heard, it was his decision to back away from the Hollywood scene and that he was considering a comeback at the same time he became ill.

I would suggest giving Les Miserables a listen.

By the way I was talking about the music only, not the people who listen to it Morlock.

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Jerry Goldsmith's Final Conflict, One of his best scores ever?

The whole trio of the Varese Deluxe Omen scores are a pleasure to behold (how dramatic :) ).

And yes the Final Conflict is amazing. Virtually every track is incredible. The Second Coming is a masterpiece. The Trial Run is majestic. The Ambassador is creepily foreboding, building up to that great crescendo. The Hunt nearly knocks the Black Beauty TV Series theme off its perch ( :D ) as far as horse riding music goes, and the creepy whispers at the very very end of the FC album just top it all off nicely. It's one of those albums that is best appreciated when in a certain mood (and wearing headphones), to pick up all the subtle genius in it. A combination of the beauty of ST Motion Picture, and the organic creepyness of Alien. I love the other two scores too, just as much. All of them are great works of creativity in music.

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These don't happen to be out print, do they? I've done searches for both torrents (I know, I know) as well as google and haven't turned anything up. I haven't tried Varese or anything, but that should've turned up in a google search I would think. Apparently these scores are hard to find...

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Also, there's way too much subtlety in this score for those rock anthem loving cretins. :lol:

Although the statement of the main theme in The Hunt nearly qualifies as power anthem material, in a good way.

Ironically, the Rivendell material from Howard Shore seems to quote 'Final Conflict' almost verbatim, at least the rising/falling string figure.

It's more reminiscent of Bruckner in both cases. With Goldsmith, I'm very certain that that's not without reason (either intentional or at least strongly influenced), with Shore I'm not so sure, but the modulations still point in that direction.

I wonder what a non-testosterone loaded Poledouris score sounds like.

Les Miserables. And it's one of his best, too. Generally though, as I've said before, even in his "testosterone scores", the non-testerone stuff is the highlight... Theology/Civilization and The Search for example, or Asteroid Grazing from ST.

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These don't happen to be out print, do they? I've done searches for both torrents (I know, I know) as well as google and haven't turned anything up. I haven't tried Varese or anything, but that should've turned up in a google search I would think. Apparently these scores are hard to find...

No they are still in print and available thru most soundtrack retailers.

http://www.varesesarabande.com/details.asp...2D066%2D687%2D2

http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=4740

http://www.moviemusic.com/soundtrack/omentrilogy

http://www.amazon.com/Omen-Trilogy/dp/B000...4128&sr=8-2

Or you can buy them individually.

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No. Just the usual intolerant BS.

Yes, we shall promote tolerance of musical taste in the next Civil Rights bill.

If that's a try at sarcasm, it missed. The point is that a lot of this childish name-calling and naysaying of everything related to everything vaguely connected to Hans Zimmer is just as pathetic as a 300-pound man trying to win Washington's Birthday Marathon. It's plain ignorant and betrays the lack of knowledge about a healthy dose of this stuff which actually is good enough for what it is, i. e. 'Paycheck', some of the 'Bourne' scores, 'Da Vinci Code', parts of 'Hannibal', parts of 'PtC III', 'Kingdom of Heaven'...hell, even 'K2' is an interesting listen.

Don't be such a crybaby. You talk about a "healthy dose", while I was talking about über fanatics.

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I still need to give these scores a listen, same with Alien. I know people say they're great, but the creepy-ness doesn't sound all that attractive to me. I ought to give it a chance. Any particular things I should pay attention to in order to appreciate them fully?

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  • 5 weeks later...

I picked up The Final Conflict recently. Great stuff. Am I correct in thinking that Goldsmith dropped "Ave Satani" for this one?

And I made the mistake of watching the film's finale on YouTube. It's pathetic. Listening to the music, you expect so much more.

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