The action writing of Crystal Skull

[Pelzter 0]

I personally disagree with the Filmtracks' score review for Indy 4, which states that the action writing of the new score fails to create a personality of its own. I think it is just as much a part of this particular story as Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra was for Last Crusade or Desert Chase for Raiders.

While Williams certainly didn't reinvent himself for Crystal Skull, I feel it is the superb and very natural integration of the Mutt motif throughout both A Whirl Through Academe and Jungle Chase, which makes these sequences unique to the story and feel of Crystal Skull, while still being Indy-like in general. Overall, I feel that Mutt's musical integration in the film is excellent, especially around Indy's theme. I'm especially smitten with the Whirl cue, which I think has the action energy, and sense of fun unrivaled in a Williams score since The Phantom Menace - and seems to belong somewhere in the late 80s altogether.

In other words, the action does not seem to me as much of an autopilot - if still very much competent - effort as much of the new star wars action writing.

I also might add, that the Whirl cue has a fantastic, fast action motif which helps it to further rise about the rather often-used Williams action writing style of fast-faced strings, percussion and brass blasts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Actually that cue is a bit of a let-down.

[Henry B 50]

The action writing is better than the subdued writing, anyway. "Secret Doors and Scorpions" ...

[Pelzter 0]

I think Whirl has more personality than Jungle Chase, which, also plenty exciting and filled with great Williams orchestration, seems very close to both some of the bombastic star wars prequel writing and Desert Chase, at times.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It does not remind me of desert Chase at all.

I prefer Ants.

[John Crichton 4]

Indy 4 sounds like it was written by an old man. Sad, but true. I never got that feeling with any of the prequels or any of Williams' other recent scores.

And before I start getting screamed at, I'll say again that like the score.

[crocodile 8,017]

It's a compliment actually.

Karol

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I just love this score.

[indy4 155]

Same, the action music does, at times sound like something from Raiders, at times sounds like SW prequels, and at times sounds totally new. I love all the big action pieces.

[Delorean90 42]

"Secret Doors and Scorpions" ...

Nope.

[MSM 126]

I personally disagree with the Filmtracks' score review for Indy 4, which states that the action writing of the new score fails to create a personality of its own. I think it is just as much a part of this particular story as Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra was for Last Crusade or Desert Chase for Raiders.

While Williams certainly didn't reinvent himself for Crystal Skull, I feel it is the superb and very natural integration of the Mutt motif throughout both A Whirl Through Academe and Jungle Chase, which makes these sequences unique to the story and feel of Crystal Skull, while still being Indy-like in general. Overall, I feel that Mutt's musical integration in the film is excellent, especially around Indy's theme. I'm especially smitten with the Whirl cue, which I think has the action energy, and sense of fun unrivaled in a Williams score since The Phantom Menace - and seems to belong somewhere in the late 80s altogether.

In other words, the action does not seem to me as much of an autopilot - if still very much competent - effort as much of the new star wars action writing.

I agree with you that the writing fits the movie very well. However, compared to the action scherzo's of the 80s, they lack a certain freshness and wit as to melodic content and harmonic versatility. For example, the harmonic twists are merely modulations by shifting the melody and riffs a secund upwards, which is actually the cheapest way of modulation there is. Compared to what happens in Scherzo for Motorcycle, Mine Car Chase or the Basket Chase, they are less interesting, regarding to musical content.

A crisp recording with some preservation of the natural reverb could have well contributed to a more shining sound. Besides I think the scenes Williams wrote for in KotCS are less intewresting and so full of sound effects that it doesn't pay off to write very intelligent action scherzo's - since they can be barely heard in the movie.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

"Jungle Chase" sounds like it's trying to emulate old-school Indy action music, but I like it a lot.

[John Crichton 4]

It's definately the best cue in the film. Too bad it's hacked up on the CD (surprise, surprise...).

[Quintus 5,399]

Mutt's theme is the worst thing to ever happen to an Indy score. It completely undermines the action and totally eradicates any sense of tension the scene/s may have had before it's inclusion. If I want swashbuckling adventure music I watch Jaws, Hook, or even PotC for that matter. I don't watch an Indiana Jones movie for Christ's sake.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

If I want swashbuckling adventure music I watch Jaws, Hook, or even PotC for that matter.

Interesting definition of swashbuckling.

I really like Jungle Chase and Whirl, but much of the rest of the score remains fairly unexciting to me (well, except Irina's theme, very memorable now), and I'm sorry but that finale cue bores the pants off me; I'm not hearing what others seem to be. But then the final scene nailed the whole film as a bit of a disappointment overall, so that's not surprising.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's music with no true identity. Take away Marion's theme and the Raiders march and the music sounds like it could be from any Williams score from the past 10 years or so.

[Romão 2,274]

I think Peio could add many interesting observations to this thread.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Mutt's theme is the worst thing to ever happen to an Indy score. It completely undermines the action and totally eradicates any sense of tension the scene/s may have had before it's inclusion. If I want swashbuckling adventure music I watch Jaws, Hook, or even PotC for that matter. I don't watch an Indiana Jones movie for Christ's sake.

Hater!

[indy4 155]

It's music with no true identity. Take away Marion's theme and the Raiders march and the music sounds like it could be from any Williams score from the past 10 years or so.

Yeah, I could totally imagine something like "The Adventures of Mutt" in something like Munich.

[Ollie 1,059]

It's music with no true identity. Take away Marion's theme and the Raiders march and the music sounds like it could be from any Williams score from the past 10 years or so.

Yeah, I could totally imagine something like "The Adventures of Mutt" in something like Munich.

Weren't you the one who thought the X-Files was going actually going to beat Batman?

It would fit in with Harry Potter, anyone of the Prequels, War Of The Worlds, A.I.......

[indy4 155]

Yes, and that was a big mistake. I was just going on the fact that X-Files is a big franchise, with TV and film, and I assumed TDK might start to wear down after a week of being out.

But yeah, I was totally wrong, I still don't see how that has anything to do with the subject at hand.

The Indy 4 score would work as well with those mentioned as the old Indy scores would work with the old SW. To a certain degree, some of the action music would work in those films (though it would not be the perfect fit - there are many differences).

"Marion's Theme" and "Han Solo and the Princess" could be easily interchanged.

[Ollie 1,059]

And that's where you are wrong.

All of Williams' earlier works had a unique sound/voice.

[indy4 155]

And that's where you are wrong.

All of Williams' earlier works had a unique sound/voice.

I've uploaded this to YouTube, here's Solo and Leia's kiss set with "Marion's Theme."

(sorry about the bad quality, I was just video taping it straight from my computer)

[Ollie 1,059]

It doesn't fit.

Marion's theme doesn't sound like Star Wars.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

It always sounded like it was cut from the same cloth for me to be honest...even when I was a kid.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

They were composed by the same guy!

[indy4 155]

I guess from there it's just a matter of opinion.

Anyways, back on topic, I love how certain punches and kicks are accompanied by short trumpet blares in "Whirl," it really really adds to the film.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

All of Williams' earlier works had a unique sound/voice.

Really?

There is some Superman in Jaws 2.

There is some ESB on E.T. (and it is not Yoda's theme)

there are several examples on old same year scores, like in new same year scores.

He is no HORNER, anyway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Manuel is sort of right.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

It's music with no true identity. Take away Marion's theme and the Raiders march and the music sounds like it could be from any Williams score from the past 10 years or so.

What about henry's theme

Take away The raiders march in TOD and Last Crusade and the rest could be from any 80's Williams score.

Indiana Jones is no Star Wars as far as thematical development and mixing goes.

[Henry B 50]

Marion's Theme is sultry and old-fashioned sounding; Han Solo and the Princess is more buoyant and adventurous. They're certainly similar, but they're not interchangeable.

[Delorean90 42]

Agreed 100%.

[MissPadmé 17]

And that's where you are wrong.

All of Williams' earlier works had a unique sound/voice.

I cannot imagine "Snake Pit" "Whirl though Academe" "Departure" in any of the films of the last year... the first two cry INDY out loud for me..

but I have ti admit that something like.. "Ants" could be from Episode III.. and Grave Robbers from Lost World.

[Ollie 1,059]

Manuel is sort of right.

No he missed the point.

This has nothing to do with copying or ripping one's previous film scores off.

This is a similar problem that affected Jerry Goldsmith's later scores. His action music became interchangeable. It sounded like it could fit any film regardless of what genre it was.

[MissPadmé 17]

Manuel is sort of right.

No he missed the point.

This has nothing to do with copying or ripping one's previous film scores off.

This is a similar problem that affected Jerry Goldsmith's later scores. His action music became interchangeable. It sounded like it could fit any film regardless of what genre it was.

You think that Whirl through Academe and the Snake Pit are interchangeable?

[crocodile 8,017]

but I have ti admit that something like.. "Ants" could be from Episode III.. and Grave Robbers from Lost World.

Grave Robbers (the first part of the track) actually sound a bit like Memoirs (track 9, if I remember correctly). Ants may be similar to other action tracks in the last 6 years, but still it is more appropriate use of this sort of motif in any track from this time in JW output. It's my favourite cue from the film. And some parts of it, especially during the fight of Indy and the soldier remind me of Raiders (the airplane cue) in its raw brutality.

Karol

[Ollie 1,059]

Manuel is sort of right.

No he missed the point.

This has nothing to do with copying or ripping one's previous film scores off.

This is a similar problem that affected Jerry Goldsmith's later scores. His action music became interchangeable. It sounded like it could fit any film regardless of what genre it was.

You think that Whirl through Academe and the Snake Pit are interchangeable?

Yes, in way they are.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

From a certain point of view....yours

[Ollie 1,059]

Well you can continue to live in your fantasy world where everything is the same as it was in the 80's.

I'll move on and face reality.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I dont live in that fantasy.

I just think some cues in indy IV sound like the 80s.

And that Williams style has evolved, but not for the worse as many think.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yes there are a few: Raiders March, End Credits and Journey to Akator. Those all sound like Williams' 80's music.

And the first 45 seconds of The Jungle Chase.

[Quintus 5,399]

I still maintain that Williams was left uninspired, when he viewed the workprint of Indy IV. I do not blame him in the slightest for producing a lacklustre score, for a lacklustre movie. If it wasn't for his loyalties to Spielberg and Lucas, he would've passed on Indy IV, no doubts about it.

I mean seriously, Spalko's theme (for e.g.) does the job, but it's hardly of the calibre one would expect from the Master of theme tunes for Bad Guys. Williams cared just enough to make her sexy, but he couldn't be bothered to go the extra mile and make her dangerous with it. He can do that Williams, with the slightest of hand, but only if he fancies it. Clearly he didn't here.

[Ollie 1,059]

Yeah I felt the same way about 2 other scores Williams did for Lucas.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

basically your description of interchangeable could be extrapolated to 'Williams has been uninspired in the last decade. Which is wrong, very wrong.

[Henry B 50]

I mean seriously, Spalko's theme does the job, but it's hardly of the calibre one would expect from the master of theme tunes for Bad Guys. Williams cared just enough to make her sexy, but he couldn't be bothered to go the extra mile and make her dangerous with it.

Not to mention it's used hilariously badly in the film. The shot of Spalko glaringly menacingly on the cliffside after Indy and the gang get away cracks me up.

[Ollie 1,059]

basically your description of interchangeable could be extrapolated to 'Williams has been uninspired in the last decade. Which is wrong, very wrong.

But I didn't say that. There's only 3 scores I've truly criticized in the past 10 years.

[Quintus 5,399]

Being AotC, Sith and this one, I imagine.

[Delorean90 42]

I mean seriously, Spalko's theme (for e.g.) does the job, but it's hardly of the calibre one would expect from the Master of theme tunes for Bad Guys. Williams cared just enough to make her sexy, but he couldn't be bothered to go the extra mile and make her dangerous with it. He can do that Williams, with the slightest of hand, but only if he fancies it. Clearly he didn't here.

Are you even serious? Did you listen to "The Jungle Chase"?

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

I still maintain that Williams was left uninspired, when he viewed the workprint of Indy IV. I do not blame him in the slightest for producing a lacklustre score, for a lacklustre movie. If it wasn't for his loyalties to Spielberg and Lucas, he would've passed on Indy IV, no doubts about it.

I mean seriously, Spalko's theme (for e.g.) does the job, but it's hardly of the calibre one would expect from the Master of theme tunes for Bad Guys. Williams cared just enough to make her sexy, but he couldn't be bothered to go the extra mile and make her dangerous with it. He can do that Williams, with the slightest of hand, but only if he fancies it. Clearly he didn't here.

That sounds about right.

[Maestro 147]

It's funny how fast and hard this score and film sunk to the back of my mind. I was all atwitter in anticipation, then I participated in the dialogue when it came out. And now...I've completely forgotten about it.

For better or worse (and I'd lean towards worse), this was a totally forgettable movie and a completely forgettable score. It's a shame really.