Film Composers In Their Primes

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I was thinking recently that most of the film score community, or at least most of JWFan, probably considers several of the biggest names in film music to be past their prime. The general consensus (though by no means unanimous) seems to be that Williams, Horner, Elfman, Goldsmith before he died, etc. are at a point where their very best scores are behind them. I was wondering if this is really how most of us felt, and perhaps more interesting, what composers out there are perceived to in their prime right now, or haven't even reached it yet. For example, I'd say that James Newton Howard is composing at the same level as, or better than, he ever was. Any thoughts?

Ray Barnsbury - who hasn't posted a topic in like a year

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I tend to disagree with that notion. I usually evaluate composers by individual scores, as opposed to their overall output. I do not see things in terms of "Golden Ages" or "Silver Ages" (unless of course that those were actual time periods).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think Danny Elfman and James Horner are past their prime. John Williams is not for me, considering one of his last scores is one of my favorites of his.

I'll agree that JNH is in his prime. He definitely is, with scores like The Village, Signs, Lady In The Water, I Am Legend, Michael Clayton, The Water Horse, etc. There's no signs of him slowing down.

I think Thomas Newman is in his prime. Although he may be getting a little out of touch. I'll have to wait and see what Revolutionary Road sounds like.

Giacchino is just starting, and I love it. It's great to know that I will be following his whole career throughout my life.

[indy4 155]

I think that JW has been consistantly good throughout the years, and he continues to do so. He is just as good as he was 30 years ago, on a technical level he's even better.

JNH is in his prime IMO.

Elfman has yet to top Edward Scissorhands, I think that overall he isn't quite as good as he used to be. I don't really like his use of synths in many modern scores, but a lot of it is still very good music. Big Fish, Corpse Bride, Charlie/Chocolate Factory, and Wanted are examples of good modern Elfman.

Zimmer is in his prime, I think. 2007 was a fantastic year for him.

[Romão 2,276]

Danny Elfman is, IMHO, sadly way past his prime.

John Williams is at his prime. Goldenthal is at his prime.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with Merkel on Elfman, and indy4 on Zimmer.

Hans has been great lately, with The Da Vinci Code, The Simpsons Movie, The Holiday, At World's End, etc.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I've been sitting around for three years waiting for Elfman to churn out more consistently good output, but he seems very picky with his choices lately, and what he actually does seems like the same old stuff. Come on, Danny.

I'll agree Zimmer's in his prime and has been that way since 2000. Not that I like his music, but he's enjoyed much success throughout this decade.

JNH, I don't know, I don't follow his music that well.

James Horner might be past it, but man, I can't wait for Poltergeist if he does it.

David Arnold's prime lasted about four or five movies.

John Williams is a bit past it, sorry. He still releases a good score when it happens, but his so-called prime ended a while before even PS/SS. I'd call TPM to Munich his "Silver Age".

And whatever happened to Elliot Goldenthal??

[indy4 155]

I'd call TPM to Munich his "Silver Age".

So where does that leave KotCS?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I could name a few Ages that some members might tell you.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

John Williams is a bit past it, sorry. He still releases a good score when it happens, but his so-called prime ended a while before even PS/SS. I'd call TPM to Munich his "Silver Age".

What do you mean, specifically, here? Because technically JW's Silver Age was back in the 60's.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Doesn't a Silver Age usually come after a Golden Age? I'm thinking with a "Golden Age of Hollywood" followed by the "Silver Age" mindset.

I'd call TPM to Munich his "Silver Age".

So where does that leave KotCS?

One pretty good score he did a few years later.

[indy4 155]

Okay

[King Mark 3,631]

I'd say 1998-2008 Williams is superior to 1988-1998 Williams with the exception of Last Crusade,Hook,Jurassic Park.

So in my mind Williams really never dropped that much in quality like Goldsmith did in the last 10 years of his life . He's not composing the classics he used to, but his scores for Harry Potter,SW prequels and KotCS are strong enough for me to want to want every bit of unreleased music.

Horner has almost completely lost it though I like The Spiderwick Chronicles

Arnold was in his prime for Stargate,ID4 and Godzilla,that's about it

Elfman sounds rather generic these days

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'd say 1998-2008 Williams is superior to 1988-1998 Williams with the exception of Last Crusade,Hook,Jurassic Park.

Schindler's List?

[indy4 155]

Far and Away?

The Lost World?

[Henry B 50]

I'd say 1998-2008 Williams is superior to 1988-1998 Williams with the exception of Last Crusade,Hook,Jurassic Park.

Schindler's List?

Not an action/adventure score, it's irrelevant!

[King Mark 3,631]

I'll take TPM ,RotS ,HPSS,HPPOA over Schindler's List and Far and Away any day .I don't like many cues in The Lost World

[John Crichton 4]

I'd call TPM to Munich his "Silver Age".

So where does that leave KotCS?

Bronze. I agree with Drax on the Silver Age thing, something I've mentioned many times. I also agree with KM about 88-98 vs. 98-05/08.

It's more than fair to say Williams is past his prime. Horner (blindingly obvious), Elman, and Silvestri too. And Uematsu, whose prime probably ended with FF IX.

I'm not wholly familiar with JNH either (despite Mr. Barnsbury's spirited efforts ), but I'd say he's in his prime now. Zimmer too, for better or worse.

I can't wait until Giacchino hits his prime.

[publicist 4,643]

The only one of these composers wo seems to be really past it is Horner...

Note to K.M.: even Goldsmith was every bit as sharp as he was in his heyday when he got A-films ('Ghost and the Darkness', 'Edge', the song from 'Sum of all Fears'). Let Williams' have a chunk of good 'ole 'Chain Reaction'/'Along came a Spider' fodder and we'll see how 'prime' those scores would look...

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I can't wait until Giacchino hits his prime.

I know! He's so effing good now and he's just gonna get better.

[Desplat13 1]

I think it is only fair to say Williams is past his prime; he would probably say the same thing. Of course, I still love whatever he writes.

Giacchino is probably at the very beginning of his prime. He is probably only going to get better, but I think that, even now, is output is better than, well, most anyone else working in film music.

[Hlao-roo 389]

He is just as good as he was 30 years ago, on a technical level he's even better.

I encounter variations on this statement a lot (also rendered in terms of Williams' stylistic maturity or orchestrational complexity), but rarely do I see it expanded upon. Listen to "The Battle of Hoth," composed back around 1980, and I think you have a composer who is already fully mature and as technically complex as he's ever been.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,070]

Jerry Goldsmith is past his prime.

[Desplat13 1]

He is just as good as he was 30 years ago, on a technical level he's even better.

I encounter variations on this statement a lot (also rendered in terms of Williams' stylistic maturity or orchestrational complexity), but rarely do I see it expanded upon. Listen to "The Battle of Hoth," composed back around 1980, and I think you have a composer who is already fully mature and as technically complex as he's ever been.

No, I think it is silly to say that he is techincally better now. He is just a little less easy listening now with his action music and such, because his style has changed. But technical brilliance is not always measured in how many notes are on a page, but how well he uses those notes, and the decisions regarding those notes.

[Romão 2,276]

And whatever happened to Elliot Goldenthal??

he hasn't done much film work lately, but his Opera Grendel really is quite something. He's also scoring Public Enemies for Michael Mann

[Ollie 1,064]

I would say JNH is in his prime and so is John Powell and Thomas Newman.

Giacchino is getting there.

I find Elliot Goldenthal to a tad bit overated, I enjoy listening to his music but I find that quite a few of his scores sound too similar to each other at times.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Christopher Young has been doing fairly well in recent years.

[Williamsfan301 11]

John Williams = Ageless

[Koray Savas 2,251]

And whatever happened to Elliot Goldenthal??

He's also scoring Public Enemies for Michael Mann

Nice! I wasn't aware of that, another reason to watch this movie.

[Red 75]

I wouldn't say that John Williams is in his prime, because I consider his best period to date the late 70's and 80's, even into the early 90's. That being said he still has composed some of his best work ever in the last ten years or so. I think it has more to do with the evolution of his composing, which apparently isn't for everyone.

Horner is far past his prime unfortunately. The last great score he did was Titanic, and even then his output wasn't as good as it was in the 80's and early 90's. A similar thing has happened to Danny Elfman, although I don't think quite as severely.

James Newton Howard I would say is in his prime. He's done some fantastic stuff in last few years.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I'd say that Williams is past his peak years, which isn't to say that he hasn't written some great scores recently. It's just hard to top his amazing run of consistently top-notch output of the late 70's and 80's. Horner definitely isn't what he used to be, which seems to be opinion of the vast majority. I agree with Indy4 that Elfman's best score is still Edward Scissorhands, but I've been impressed with several of his recent scores (Big Fish, Corpse Bride, Charlotte's Web) and wouldn't say he's in a decline. And it's interesting to see that so many people see JNH as being at the top of his game. His scores do tend to fluctuate between the outstanding (Signs, The Village) and less noteworthy (The Lookout, Michael Clayton), but when he's good he's still certainly as good as ever. And I'm also looking forward to hearing Giacchino continue to reach new heights.

[Trent B 337]

Christopher Young has been doing fairly well in recent years.

Indeed, I'm beginning to really like his scores.

John Williams = Ageless

Talk about total fanboyism right there. No composer is "ageless".

[Johnnyecks 33]

I will have to agree that Santoalellla (sp?) is still in not yet in his prime.

However, I tend to agree with Chri..er.. RAY!!

I have felt as though we have seen the best of Williams. I'm sorry to say that, but nothing has impressed me as much as Ep. 1. I got the goosebumps listening to that (now I feel.. Drek) wonderful cd. I have not had that happen with anything since.

Eh.. being a score lover this is a boring time. Being a collector it is anything but. Limited released out the asses from all labels, but there is not one TRUE unbelieveable release to make us Geekgaasm. Well some did over Delta Force and Boys from Brazil but I'm sorry... I don't get off from Brazilians, or Boys... so I'm not sure what there is out there for me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Christopher Young has been doing fairly well in recent years.

Indeed, I'm beginning to really like his scores.

Although I don't think Young has done anything quite as beautifully epic and richly textured since Hellbound: Hellraiser II, he's still consistently good. An ever reliable composer.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I will have to agree that Santoalellla (sp?) is still in not yet in his prime.

Santaolalla will never be in his prime.

[Neimoidian 14]

I will have to agree that Santoalellla (sp?) is still in not yet in his prime.

Santaolalla will never be in his prime.

2 Oscars in a row and couple of important (bussiness-wise) nominations? I'd call this a prime anyway! He's just not the type of composer we (people on this MB) listen to.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

He's at a career high-point for sure, but most would argue there's nothing prime about his musical creativity.

[Marian Schedenig 8,239]

Christopher Young has been doing fairly well in recent years.

I've completely lost track of him these last years, I'm afraid.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He's at a career high-point for sure, but most would argue there's nothing prime about his musical creativity.

He's only scored like 5 movies. If he's at his prime, Giacchino is at the end of his career.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Regardless of productivity, I'd consider winning two consecutive Oscars a career highlight. I didn't say he was in his prime, though

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I didn't say he was in his prime, though

Ah, right, I missed that.

[Morlock 11]

Unrelated, but I just found out that Santaolalla was just in Israel a couple of days ago. Would have been....interesting to meet him. Seems like a nice guy.

[Ren 75]

JW is past. Though that is just based on my preference of scores.

Elfman is past.

Powell and Zimmer are hot right now. Even though a lot of the scores I like sound similar

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Powell is definitely on a roll. He's churning out as much as Zimmer.

[indy4 155]

Quantity of work does not determine greatness.

Though I do really like Powell, but I don't have enough of his work to determine whether he's in his prime or not.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Powell is churning out as much as Zimmer, and each score is awesome. Better? He does both quantity and quality. He is in his prime. It's unfortunate the Academy would never nominate him for anything.

[indy4 155]

Maybe he, like Zimmer, doesn't submit his scores to the Academy.

And no way is Bourne Ultimatum fantastic (for score or film).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Maybe he, like Zimmer, doesn't submit his scores to the Academy.

Zimmer's scores still get submitted for consideration. The studio controls that. He just doesn't care or worry himself if he gets nominated.

And no way is Bourne Ultimatum fantastic (for score or film).

To each his own.

[indy4 155]

Maybe he, like Zimmer, doesn't submit his scores to the Academy.

Zimmer's scores still get submitted for consideration. The studio controls that. He just doesn't care or worry himself if he gets nominated.

This passage from this article says otherwise:

He has, he says, no interest in playing the Hollywood "game": winning an Oscar made no difference to his life (and, since he no longer submits his scores to the Academy, he won't be winning any more).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah I remember reading something similar awhile back. The studio controls the music. For instance, Universal is submitting his score for Frost/Nixon to the Academy for consideration. Composers don't personally make a nice little CD and mail it to the Academy. If they actually owned all of their music, don't you think it would all be released?