Batman

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Every few days I will post a thread on a random score from my collection that we can discuss and rate. I made a playlist on my computer with one track of each score I've got, so by using the random play option, I'll be able to post a truly random score each time. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss some scores that would otherwise never be discussed. Also we can record the rating so that we can create a full list of the ratings given to scores by JWFan.com.

This is a continuation of a series of polls I started before I left. One of the last scores I posted was ToD, but now that we actually have an expanded version, I post it again, just to get things going again and see if anybody's opinion on the score has changed. Stand by for new entries in the score rating polls shortly.

Today's score is Batman by Danny Elfman. Are you familiar with it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How do do you think it works in the film? What are your favourite tracks?

So far JWFan has rated:

See Soundtrack Ratings by JWFan.com.

This web page contains the ratings from all my previous polls as well as those of Blumenkohl's.

Final ratings are converted to a 1-10 rating for both rating systems so that they can be compared.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Three stars. I dig the main theme, and some elements, but a lot of it seems boring and I can take it or leave it. 'Finale' is wonderful, though. I prefer the arrangement of the theme for B: TAS as well.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I have to vote "Unfamiliar" on this one. The main theme sounds nice enough,

but I'm not even very familiar with that, let alone the rest of the score, let alone the film.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Three stars. I dig the main theme, and some elements, but a lot of it seems boring and I can take it or leave it.

Also, in the context of the film, it's somewhat overscored and over the top. It's not Nicholson's performance that makes the Joker too much slapsticky and not menacing enough, it's Burton's direction and (as a result) the music.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie. Danny was robbed at the Oscars that year - Henry Mancini said as much. A Batman movie without a Danny Elfman score is just wrong.

Unfortunately, the soundtrack recording suffers from a bad mixing, so alot of the nuances of the music are hard to hear.

5 stars

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I actually think Shirley Walker's Batman scores are much better than Elfman's, and they're a lot more appropriate for the characters. The treatment of Batman in general in Burton's films (not even going into Schumacher) leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and as Marian said above, the music doesn't fare much better.

[crocodile 8,017]

Forget the movie it was written for. Great music and one of the best albums out there. 5 stars.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

3.5, although I should have given it less.

[Morlock 11]

Probably 4 stars. Love the themes. Love a few of the non-theme based cues. But I generally skip about half of the album.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

5 stars. Fantastic.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie.

Goldenthal's are better (scores, not movies).

[Romão 2,274]

I agree. I would love to hear what he would bring to the table had he been given a more "serious" canvas to paint on

[lonzoe 18]

Three stars. I dig the main theme, and some elements, but a lot of it seems boring and I can take it or leave it.

Also, in the context of the film, it's somewhat overscored and over the top. It's not Nicholson's performance that makes the Joker too much slapsticky and not menacing enough, it's Burton's direction and (as a result) the music.

In the context of the film it's overscored ? The same could be said about a lot of the movies that the name of the guy this website is dedicated to scored. You talk about Nicholson like if he was only playing a really menacing Joker. He played him funny, menacing, gentlemanlike. You blame Burton for Nicholson's performance. The scene where Joker was talking to the burnt body was one of the scenes Burton mentioned on an old interview when talking about the Joker. So quit with the excuses.

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie.

Goldenthal's are better (scores, not movies).

So assuming that you read comics, when you read Batman you think of Goldenthal's music? Or better yet when you think of Batman you think of Goldenthal's music accompanying him? I'm sorry Goldenthal's scores to his Batman movies ,especially BF, were good not as perfect as Elfman's or Walker's. But WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the recent batman scores. Don't get me wrong Goldenthal's score to BF was one of the best things about it ,IMO.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I hear Goldenthal's music whenever I read THE LONG HALLOWEEN. Probably HEAT more than his Batman music. But then I also hear Slayer when I read THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Go figure.

[Ollie 1,059]

5 stars.

An excellent score and yes Elfman at least deserved an Oscar nomination. In fact Williams nomination for LC would be one I'd gladly do away with if Batman could have been nominated. If memory serves me right there was an uproar over his score being snubbed.

Elfman nailed it perfectly and captured the spirit of Batman. Unfortunately he had to work around a lousy collection of Prince's songs.

I like Elliot Goldenthal's Batman scores but they are a reflection of the cheesy direction Batman took after Burton departed.

[MSM 126]

Someway I never have really gotten into Elfman's music. It's good music, complex and interesting but also sometimes a bit bland or too bombastic. I think it's just not exactly my type of music. Batman score was quite fitting as I remember, but I have to say I like Zimmer's variation on Elfman's theme better (Batman Begins).

[Red 75]

Batman score was quite fitting as I remember, but I have to say I like Zimmer's variation on Elfman's theme better (Batman Begins).

Huh?

4 for me, maybe a 4.5. Very iconic, but I think there have been better Bat-scores.

[MSM 126]

Batman score was quite fitting as I remember, but I have to say I like Zimmer's variation on Elfman's theme better (Batman Begins).

Huh?

4 for me, maybe a 4.5. Very iconic, but I think there have been better Bat-scores.

As I see it the repeated thirds in Zimmer's Batman Begins are derived from Elfman's motiv. Probably on purpose since BB was kind of a prequel to the earlier movies.

[Red 75]

Actually it wasn't a prequel. Not at all.

[MSM 126]

Actually it wasn't a prequel. Not at all.

No it wasn't but the composers treated the motiv with the repeated thirds as such.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 stars.

Very good theme, some good action music and epic music. But the score lacks focus and a strong love theme.

[Trent B 337]

5 stars. Fantastic.

[Ollie 1,059]

As I see it the repeated thirds in Zimmer's Batman Begins are derived from Elfman's motiv. Probably on purpose since BB was kind of a prequel to the earlier movies.

I believe Elfman also commented on that possibility in a recent interview that was linked over at FSM.

[MSM 126]

As I see it the repeated thirds in Zimmer's Batman Begins are derived from Elfman's motiv. Probably on purpose since BB was kind of a prequel to the earlier movies.

I believe Elfman also commented on that possibility in a recent interview that was linked over at FSM.

I didn't know that, do you have any link to the article?

[crocodile 8,017]

3 stars.

Very good theme, some good action music and epic music. But the score lacks focus and a strong love theme.

There is very little romance in the film. If any at all.

Karol

[Ollie 1,059]

http://www.stageandscreenonline.com/downlo...nny_elfman.html

It's a 60 minute interview, somewhere in there they discuss TDK. He likes the film and mentions something about Zimmer and the score, he doesn't spend a whole lot of time on it.

It's a rather interesting interview. He also discusses his lack of interest in winning an Oscar.

[MSM 126]

http://www.stageandscreenonline.com/downlo...nny_elfman.html

It's a 60 minute interview, somewhere in there they discuss TDK. He likes the film and mentions something about Zimmer and the score, he doesn't spend a whole lot of time on it.

It's a rather interesting interview. He also discusses his lack of interest in winning an Oscar.

Tnx, I'll check it out.

[Morlock 11]

Excellent interview, that. Highly recommended. He doesn't talk about BB as a prequel, but he mentions that there was a chord he hit on that was used in the later movies (more in the latest ones than Goldenthal's). He mentions that he loved the new Batman movies, but offered no opinion on their scores.

[crocodile 8,017]

Very interesting. Thanks

Karol

[Trumpeteer 302]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that John Williams was the first choice to write this score.

This movie was cheated at the Oscars in more ways than Elfman's score, the themes of which are ALMOST as good as the Grail theme and "No Ticket" from "Last Crusade." Jack Nicholson should have been nominated for an Oscar.

[Trent B 337]

It's too bad a complete sfx free version of Batman hasn't leaked.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

No Ticket is not the best theme from TLC?

[Lurker 5]

It's a good album, but in the film the score is an annoyance.

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

My score collects dust.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

same here.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

actually Stefan I'm more likely to play the Prince Batman album than the Elfman.

[indy4 155]

3 stars. Good main theme, good Joker music, and a few good other cues. The rest bores me. It is definitely the most overrated Elfman score, and he's my third favorite composer of all time.

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie. Danny was robbed at the Oscars that year - Henry Mancini said as much.

LC should have won the Oscar.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Funny, I was just listening to this last night. I give it a 4.5. I do not really remember its use in the film all too well, but I really like this album, except for "The Bat Cave", which is rather boring. Danny Elfman was still fairly new to the medium back then, and that impresses me even more. A shame that this score is what prompted so much controversy for Danny Elfman. Ah well, it had to be done somewhere.

[Morlock 11]

Watching the film recently, I thought the score added a great deal of weight to the film.

[Romão 2,274]

Three stars. I dig the main theme, and some elements, but a lot of it seems boring and I can take it or leave it.

Also, in the context of the film, it's somewhat overscored and over the top. It's not Nicholson's performance that makes the Joker too much slapsticky and not menacing enough, it's Burton's direction and (as a result) the music.

In the context of the film it's overscored ? The same could be said about a lot of the movies that the name of the guy this website is dedicated to scored. You talk about Nicholson like if he was only playing a really menacing Joker. He played him funny, menacing, gentlemanlike. You blame Burton for Nicholson's performance. The scene where Joker was talking to the burnt body was one of the scenes Burton mentioned on an old interview when talking about the Joker. So quit with the excuses.

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie.

Goldenthal's are better (scores, not movies).

So assuming that you read comics, when you read Batman you think of Goldenthal's music? Or better yet when you think of Batman you think of Goldenthal's music accompanying him? I'm sorry Goldenthal's scores to his Batman movies ,especially BF, were good not as perfect as Elfman's or Walker's. But WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than the recent batman scores. Don't get me wrong Goldenthal's score to BF was one of the best things about it ,IMO.

Goldenthal wrote perfect scores for those movies. If they don't represent the best version of the character, naturally the music will not easily convey the character in its prime. But talking strictly about the music, it is much better music than Elfman's, IMHO.

[Trent B 337]

Watching the film recently, I thought the score added a great deal of weight to the film.

Agreed.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I thought his score for "Batman Forever" was alright ( my favorite Track being the delightfully fun "Two Face Three Step"), but I do not think that Elliot Goldenthal's score is better than Danny Elfman's.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

In the context of the film it's overscored ? The same could be said about a lot of the movies that the name of the guy this website is dedicated to scored.

Williams does have a tendency to overscore films. But with Elfman, I've always found it more annoying. Batman has lots of music that are just there, and loud, without really doing anything.

You talk about Nicholson like if he was only playing a really menacing Joker. He played him funny, menacing, gentlemanlike. You blame Burton for Nicholson's performance. The scene where Joker was talking to the burnt body was one of the scenes Burton mentioned on an old interview when talking about the Joker. So quit with the excuses.

What excuses? I'm not the one who says Nicholson's performance made the Joker over-the-top and too laughable, others have said that repeatedly. When I rewatched the film a few weeks/months ago, I thought Nicholson was excellent, but the overall direction/concept of the film diluted his character. To much ridiculousness and bombast, in the film and the score. Resulting in the film not being as dark as it seems to pretend to be.

So assuming that you read comics, when you read Batman you think of Goldenthal's music?

I haven't seen a Batman comic since I was a child. But as far as pure music goes, I like Goldenthal's Batman scores far more than Elfman's.

[Lurker 5]

Batman has lots of music that are just there, and loud, without really doing anything.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that notices this, too.

But as far as pure music goes, I like Goldenthal's Batman scores far more than Elfman's.

Yep.

Neil

[Williamsfan301 11]

Great score that should be in EVERY Batman movie.

Goldenthal's are better (scores, not movies).

Goldenthal's scores are nothing more than a cheese attempt to use the Elfman score and style and yet not use the Elfman score and style because Schumaker told him not to. They're not worth the CD's they're burned on and are VERY forgettable. When people think Batman, they think Elfman. It's just as iconic a theme as Jaws.

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Goldenthal's scores are certainly (intentional) cheese... but I don't hear Elfman in them. They're genuine Goldenthal.

Batman has lots of music that are just there, and loud, without really doing anything.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that notices this, too.

It's my problem with lots of what I've heard by Elfman. E.g. I rather like his Frighteners score and I love the movie, but they suffer from the same problem (and since I became aware of it, the score at times distracts me from the film).

[Red 75]

For my money the best Batman film score is Shirley Walker's Mask of the Phantasm.

[Diego 21]

5 stars, probably my favorite non-Williams score along with Poltergeist.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Goldenthal's scores are certainly (intentional) cheese... but I don't hear Elfman in them. They're genuine Goldenthal.

Batman has lots of music that are just there, and loud, without really doing anything.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that notices this, too.

It's my problem with lots of what I've heard by Elfman. E.g. I rather like his Frighteners score and I love the movie, but they suffer from the same problem (and since I became aware of it, the score at times distracts me from the film).

I will agree that Elfman matured very late. He didn't end up in my top five until I heard his score from Big Fish. My reaction was "Wow, Elfman finally figured out how to be gentle." It's actually pretty and a nice departure from his standard "slash and burn" scores that he's known for.