Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread

[Jay 37,374]

Yup, all great observations.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Paragraphs are nice!

[Giftheck 917]

I remember the mentality going around at the time was that omissions were fine because everyone watching the movies should read the books to find out. People with this attitude had no clue about why a film is weak if it can't stand on its own without demanding people to read its source material.

Exactly. If it were a continuation, this attitude would not matter, but as a straight out adaptation that changes quite a lot, the series' creators needed to remember that not everybody will have read the books (in fact, I can remember a time before the film first came out that Harry Potter was classed as being 'uncool' so nobody read it)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I remember the mentality going around at the time was that omissions were fine because everyone watching the movies should read the books to find out. People with this attitude had no clue about why a film is weak if it can't stand on its own without demanding people to read its source material.

Exactly. If it were a continuation, this attitude would not matter, but as a straight out adaptation that changes quite a lot, the series' creators needed to remember that not everybody will have read the books (in fact, I can remember a time before the film first came out that Harry Potter was classed as being 'uncool' so nobody read it)

A big narrative problem throughout the films was that new plot elements were introduced but they had no pay off. And other elements had their pay off like in the book but were never introduced, so to a casual movie viewer, they make no sense.

For example, the Maurauders were introduced in POA, but the film never made it clear that they were James, Sirius, Remus and Peter. And it was never mentioned again. Snape as the Half-Blood Prince had no significance in DH. Snape's love for Lily had no clues or build up, it was just revealed out of nowhere. And some big controversy about Dumbledore was hinted at the beginning of DH1, but the contents of Rita Skeeter's book were never revealed.

So why do all of this and never give it any meaning? It's lazy scriptwriting leading to a bad adaptation that assumes the audience are all book readers and they can fill the gaps themselves.

[Jay 37,374]

Yep.

[Once 605]

Guys, we need to remake them.

[Jay 37,374]

This Fan Theory Explains Why The Dursleys Were So Awful To Harry Potter

I like it.

[Wojo 2,453]

It must, then, have been a cumulative effect that built over years. Harry lived with the Dursleys for eleven years before learning his birthright. He met Ron and Hermione soon afterwards, and was reunited with Dumbledore and Hagrid, and would see them for months for the next six or seven years, and they never became bitter assholes. Similarly, the effect of Harry leaving the Dursleys for the school year wasn't enough to make them nice. The damage was irreversible.

I don't buy it.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

So since everything's out except Azkaban I thought I'd try some score-to-picture restoration, compiling all the scenes for each composer. I think I got most of the highlights....just left out a couple of the duller Hooper cues, and Williams' "The Beach and the Arrival of Hagrid" was clearly for a slightly longer sequence which would have required some music editing.

 

Excuse my attempts at mixing...I preserved film audio where possible instead of isolating everything since I thought it'd be more fun that way.

 

 

 

 

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Hmm, no thoughts?

I will add that this gave me a little more appreciation for Desplat's efforts. For the most part, I don't know how big of a difference the others make though I still think it's fun to hear them, anyway...I like Williams' Hogwarts theme getting a bit of use and the "Owl's Flight" alternate is an interesting change in tone, though the film version probably makes more dramatic sense after the mirror scene. Also greatly prefer Hooper's original "Wizard Wheezes" to the "Fireworks" tracking.

The Deathly Hallows examples, though, I think are pretty much all improvements, however slight. The comic timing feels less awkward in the Seven Potters and Ministry scenes, and there are some nice little splashes of extra color in the dramatic scenes which I think mostly felt kind of cold and stilted without music. I can see David Yates probably thinking the "Ron Leaves" alternate was too big but I sort of like that momentous feeling towards the end...generally I think these would have shaved off some of the drab self-seriousness, or at least filled it out with a little warmth. These stories work well with a bit of melodrama which Yates often resisted but it seemed Desplat did try, bless him.

[Jay 37,374]

Chris Columbus wants to direct a Harry Potter movie that fills in the 19-year gap

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why?

Nothing much is supposed to happen in that gap, right?

[crumbs 14,319]

So I note that all Harry Potter films have had their recording sessions leaked, bar Azkaban.

What a surprise.

[Jay 37,374]

Yea, it sucks

[crumbs 14,319]

Surely it's just some cosmically hilarious coincidence, right?

... right?! I mean, it's not like they were all recorded in the same building and all exist on the same Warner Brothers server, right?

:/

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The complete POA score didn't leak because it will be the first one to be officially released.

[crumbs 14,319]

I like your optimism.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

MrBellamy, those videos were really very interesting to listen to! 'You're A Wizard, Harry' just works perfectly, as does The Whomping Willow. Doyle's cues are very nice, but I can sort of understand why they dialed Voldemort out. What makes you think that Ron's Fleur talk was meant to be underscored? Hooper's music is yet more proof to me that he didn't understand what he was doing. Desplat's cues were very nice, but Yates hates emotion so they obviously had to go.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

What makes you think that Ron's Fleur talk was meant to be underscored?

Well, in the leak, that's where that cue came in chronological order. Though I will say that that particular cue was apparently unlabeled in the original leak aside from the reel/cue numbers. The same goes for most of the HBP cues. The names I put are just what came with mine, so some of them are fanmade titles (the Williams and Desplat ones are all accurate as far as I know, though.) It looks like zeekypttr5678 found an accurate cue list for HBP at least: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20819&p=1102372

And obviously the exact placement of all of these is just guess work but I think the match with that little move of Harry's fits too well for it to be anything else, and once I synched that, the in point was at just the right time for Ron's story so that's what I went with

[bollemanneke 3,352]

You do have a point about the ending of that cue working very well. And the HBP tracklist is indeed real, wish we had Doyle's official titles.

[Jay 37,374]

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Ha! I suppose it's a better track record than Into the Woods:

Also, made another one of these:

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Wow, that sounded so impressive! Yates really does have a problem with spotting.

[crumbs 14,319]

It would've all just been dialled down or muted in the mix, anyway.

The man has zero idea of how to integrate a film score. You can certainly tell that Desplat was forced to work off a temp-track to within an inch of his life.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I just don't understand what WB loves about his work. The moment he took over, the stories got dumbed-down so radically that half of them no longer make sense. Add to that Nicholas Hooper's scores and Desplat's disused material and the riddle is complete.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Wow, that sounded so impressive! Yates really does have a problem with spotting.

The sad thing is that he and his editor aren't bad at all with rhythm or shaping a scene. It's surprisingly easy to find cues that are the right length, develop naturally along with the scene, and hit appropriate sync points. Sometimes I've had three or four good cues to choose from. Speaks to Williams' craftsmanship and cinematic sensibilities too, but these scenes make musical sense.

Yates was so keen that everything be "real," which I don't think was necessarily the wrong idea, but like a lot of filmmakers his definition of reality and how to portray it is so repressed that the films lost a lot of potential for catharsis and spectacle.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Does Yates realise that there's absolutely nothing real about Harry Potter?

[mrbellamy 6,293]

I mean, I wouldn't say that's entirely true, insofar as the conceit of the series obviously is that the magical world exists parallel to the real world and the characters are regular people who happen to have magical abilities. So it makes sense that he would want the films to feel plausible...but it never seemed like he really relished the fantasy. The magic was a little too much "matter of course", wands became more like guns or tasers. Every now and then it felt like maybe he was enjoying himself, but of all four directors, he was by far the least interested in the things that made it the most fun. Cuaron was the best because he took the story and characters seriously while also throwing himself head first into all the magic, loading up the movie with gags and easter eggs all over.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Right, but he claims HP5 was a political thriller. That's not what it is at all, it's the story of a teenager struggling with being possessed and mocked. We just re-watched HP7 with the family. The scene when Ron gets Splinched has no music! That's just incompetent.

[Jilal 569]

I don't think any music is necessary for that scene. The silence gives the scene some room to breathe after the aurally hectic escape from the Ministry of Magic and helps create an unsettling atmosphere, IMHO.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

You're probably right. I still don't get why he dialed out the music when Hermione walks away from Harry after Apparating and begins crying over Ron's departure. That's a moment that just begs for music.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Hmm, I actually don't have a huge problem with the spotting in Part 1. I know a lot of people find it slow and boring, but I appreciated that they let those moments without Ron sit like that. The movies tended to downplay his character but they make you feel his absence there. The whole movie is very quiet and heavy but while it could have been lightened a bit, I think the tone generally works for that part of the story. I remember seeing it and feeling like it did a good job setting the stage for Part 2...

...which is the one I have the bigger issues with. Since Part 1 is such a slow burn, Part 2 should have been this rush of emotion and adrenaline, sweeping and lyrical, a big release. Yates would always call it "operatic" in interviews but so much of it has the same old dark, heavy tone that when you hit all these big cathartic moments that have such subdued music or often none at all, the cumulative effect feels dead and underwhelming to me. The actors/characters are so glum and straight-faced throughout, even after Voldemort dies, everything's still deflated. It's a movie that really has very little emotional range IMO.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Alright bollemanneke, this one's for you:

John Williams makes everything better.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Very moving indeed! It works so much better than silence!

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Another bump since I've put together a full playlist with my little videos:

 

 

Genuinely curious for any thoughts on these overall...I really like how some of them fit, I think they actually work dramatically for the most part. But then again there are a lot of lame rescoring videos on YouTube so this may just be that thing when someone's describing their dream last night and it's boring, but then suddenly yours are incredibly interesting. Also I was trying to teach myself some simple mixing with these things so, do they at least sound okay?

 

Ah well, anyway. The Star Wars anticipation got me annoyed about this series again so I went on a bit of a spree here. A little consolation for having to miss out on 5 more Williams Potter scores, with no other movies that would have interfered with the Yates installments.

[Not Mr. Big 4,640]

Really liking your "What if John Williams scored" series. Have you ever considered branching out to non-Williams movies? I've been really curious how John Williams music would sound in a Ridley Scott epic (Kingdom in Heaven, Exodus: Gods and Kings)

[bollemanneke 3,352]

If you ever feel like doing another one, you might want to look into the extended Ron Leaves. Desplat wrote an entire section of music that was meant to underscore H and H disapparating and H crying. I'm sure it would have worked brilliantly. Also, might I ask how you sync the music with the videos? I've been trying to do the same thing for some time but Always have difficulty finding the right spot to start the unused music.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Thanks for taking a look, guys . Glad the other Potter fans here are getting a kick out of them.

Big, that would be fun! I think obviously Potter is just easier since there's already that established sound. The trouble I always run into is avoiding recognizable themes, kinda defeats the purpose when Indy's theme or the Schindler's List theme or something suddenly pops up in the middle. So I like doing the slightly more anonymous underscore bits and it's a little more flexible with this series since I can still use their themes. But if I could find something good, I might give it a try with other movies.

Bolle, I usually just pick a scene and then filter/sort iTunes by Williams/track length and skim through cues around the scene's running time to find something that I think will fit the shape and tone of the scene. There's so much variety there even just in his Potters that 9 times out of 10 I get one that works. At that point it's just shifting it around to find the best sync. With these, the starting and end points (for however well they work) have surprisingly just kind of sorted themselves out. Seems like movie scenes share a lot of the same DNA. What have you tried?

Also I'm not sure what you mean by the extended Ron Leaves? If you're talking about the version of "Ron Leaves" from the soundtrack, that's an alternate for the actual leaving scene. That's how it's labeled in the cue sheets, anyway, and it matches up with the scene. I did include that in my restored score video for Desplat

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Thanks a lot for the explanation! Oh, sorry, my mistake, I was using wrong track names. On the 7.1 sessions, there is a track called Ron Leaves (from 1m6) (Full Version), and 1:19-end (I think it starts there roughly) went completely unused. The Original scene in the film sounds very, very awkward to me without any music.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Oh yes! You're absolutely right, somehow I overlooked that one, Here it is (included a bit of Ron leaving for context but the unused bit starts at 1:12)

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Great job! You just made the scene 10 ties more interesting.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Glad you could get to see it with the music!

Btw, another thought I had on finding those start points for cues, I've found it's good to try finding a bit of action or a phrase in the dialogue that makes sense. And trying to follow the rhythm of the dialogue or the cutting or even how the actors are moving is useful. The GOF Dumbledore/Harry video was kind of a tricky one to figure out, for example, but eventually I decided that "peared" on "they re-ap-peared" was the one to go with, and IMO it creates just the right little bit of overlap between the dialogue and music.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Does anyone here own the Blu-Rays of the Ultimate Editions / Wizard's Collection? If so, could anyone tell me what those picture-in-picture or In-Movie Experience thingies are? Is it an entire track that interrupts the films whether you want it or not, or do you choose yourself when you want extra info? Are the PIPs interesting at all?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I can't imagine its a feature that you can't turn on/off!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Doesn't look anything like Daniel Radcliffe!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Giftheck 917]

Looks a lot like the first film there actually. He's more wrinkly than Ralph Fiennes was, anyway.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I can't see anything! Just the back of Quirrel's head, with an eye peaking out.

What's with the percentages?

[Jay 37,374]

Harry Potter fans are leaving socks for Dobby on the Warner Bros. Studio Tour