Potterdom Film/Score Series Thread

[Jay 37,374]

Why the Weasley Twins Are the Dumbest Characters In Harry Potter

[mrbellamy 6,293]

(This started in the Stepmom thread but I'm just gonna carry it over here because I went a little overboard )

 

7 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

But why do people want Doyle to use continuity when JW himself didn't?

 

Remember that Williams did also give a courtesy nod to the flying themes at the end. The only excuse I would give is that there are a lot of new elements plus no Voldemort. But I would have liked at least one reference somewhere of the "family" or "friendship" themes.

 

Honestly I don't think that the scores needed to change much at all from what they were doing, though, trying to focus on the new elements and bring new material each film. It's not any one score or composer's fault, it just became this cumulative trend of basically starting over from scratch every time and for those of us who do like a bit of meaningful continuity i.e. annoying fanboys to pretty much everyone else, it got more and more frustrating with each one. It's not like there even needed to be that many references to make the right impression, but there were tons of missed opportunities to choose from.

 

This was the continuity from previous scores that I can remember in the Potter series, post-Williams.

 

GOF - Hedwig's Theme

OOTP - Hedwig's Theme

HBP - Hedwig's Theme, Possession, Quidditch Third Year motif, Fireworks/Dumbledore's Army tracked

DH1 - Hedwig's Theme

DH2 - Hedwig's Theme, Obliviate, "Band of Brothers" theme, Deathly Hallows motif, Horcrux motif, Boys Receive Detention/Dumbledore & Harry/Dumbledore's Farewell/Leaving Hogwarts all tracked

 

It's pretty underwhelming, with the most effective instances coming from tracked material (and of course that one incredibly distinctive tune at the center of it all). Some of it's just random, like throwing in Quidditch Third Year and Dumbledore's Army. I suppose Hooper's attempt to make Possession a thing was kind of adorable, at least he had the right idea. Desplat gave a decent effort in Part 2 when it came to his own Part 1 material, for the few of us who even noticed it.

 

Thing is, I'm critical of COS as well for the opposite, going too far into "rehash" territory. Ultimately the series just never struck a good balance and it's a shame because it could have been fantastic. If I have one major criticism, it's that Voldemort and the Death Eaters wound up with no identity. Williams had his 3 ideas for Voldy in the first two films, which were replaced by Doyle's theme, which was replaced by mostly a lot of vague underscore from there on out. Meanwhile Hooper started up a menacing 5/4 rhythm for the Death Eaters in HBP which was honestly good enough, but replaced by Desplat's new sort of all-purpose Voldy/Death Eater theme in DH1, which was dropped for the finale where you really had nothing specific going on in the score for the bad guys! I mean, come on! It's better if you ignore that they even tried in the first place.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Technially, Voldemort is mentioned in Azkaban, so a reference there would have been nice.

Haha, looking at your accurate continuity list makes it all seem so much worse and sloppy.

I still don't understand why Possession went so terribly wrong. I didn't even notice it was a theme until I started being more interested in film scores years later. Did it register as a theme with anyone else? Doyle's Voldemort theme was immediately notcieable, even though JW had one already but I have to say I like Doyle's take too.

I actually like COS a lot because of the rehash reason. From a musical point of view, it sounds like the perfect sequel.

The finale of HP8 did have some kind of theme, but I don't know what it stands for. You hear it in Battlefield when the trolls are showing up, and it's reprised when Voldy and Harry are falling/grappling after their final conversation.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Oh yeah, given the choice I prefer COS going a little too far with the callbacks than the others not repeating anything at all. COS has a lot of great new stuff and some of the variations on old material are fantastic. I would just say looking at it there are a handful of references that probably weren't necessary and make it feel too familiar, but I'm not gonna complain.

 

I think Doyle's theme is absolutely fine, the argument isn't whether or not Williams' work was better, only that he got there first. There's nothing that Doyle, Hooper, or Desplat wrote for the character that Williams didn't achieve in pretty much the same way with his themes, so they might as well have just continued them, played around with them, and kept making those connections. Seems like a no-brainer to me, but then again I'm just a nobody on the Internet.

 

And sure, I know what you're talking about in HP8. I would just call that a general battle anthem, like the Statues/Courtyard Apocalypse figure. Point is you don't really get anything specific for Voldemort, for example maybe something in his character scenes that could also be used in an action setting. Are filmmakers even interested in that kind of thing anymore? Is it too corny or what? Something like that could have been exciting, I think, but you just get a lot of indistinct moody underscore instead....

[Bofur01 245]

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure if the lack of directorial continuity helped the continuity of the music, but there we go. Though I agree with mrbellamy on Doyle, I think he did a good job,  and I also liked Despot's efforts. Just not sure why nearly all continuity was abandoned a few times between scores... I'm guessing it's not known whether it was the directors who requested different sounding scores, or whether it was the composers?

 

I also still don't have Hooper's scores, I want to get them to complete the set, but wasn't a great fan of them in the film, though they served their purpose... And I haven't exactly heard great things about them on here either...

[crumbs 14,319]

I think it's probably a combination of Yates sucking all the magical elements out of the series and Hooper being overwhelmed with the project's scale. I don't have any problems with OOTP but Yates lost me with HBP.

 

[mrbellamy 6,293]

9 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

Just not sure why nearly all continuity was abandoned a few times between scores... I'm guessing it's not known whether it was the directors who requested different sounding scores, or whether it was the composers?

 

I'm honestly not convinced they even gave it that much thought. I think that they figured Hedwig's Theme was enough continuity until the last one and I suppose for most people, they were right. I really do wonder if it ever occurred to them to do anything beyond that, aside from random silliness like Hooper's Quidditch thing.

 

9 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

I also still don't have Hooper's scores, I want to get them to complete the set, but wasn't a great fan of them in the film, though they served their purpose... And I haven't exactly heard great things about them on here either...

 

You probably wouldn't get much out of them on album that you didn't get in the film. It's surface level stuff, they barely hold up on their OST presentations. Some people go absolutely crazy for them, though. They're small, simple, and pretty.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,319]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Lol no, I agree with that, BB. This was a guy whose comfort zone was writing modest emotionally-centered cues with little woodwind solos and elegies for chamber strings. We should be so lucky to get more people with his musical and dramatic interests scoring major Hollywood movies.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

BB, I'm the last person who would give Hooper a hard time because he replaced JW. Just look at those scores from an intellectual point of view, remember JW's and Doyle's sweeping sound. Would you have written such stupid music for, say, the trio's reunion in HP5? You barely hear anything! Same goes for the Voldemort discussion later, only underscore. Umbridge's theme doesn't work because she's too nasty for it, and during her final scenes it doesn't play for Obvious reasons. As for HP6, Dumbledore's Farewell was excellent. Hedwig's theme during The Burrow was totally ridiculous. The Drink of Despair could have been much more. Everything could have been more.

 

As for the person doubting whether to get Hooper's scores, the OSTs make for better listening than the sessions. The sessions do have some good cues, but overall it's a drag.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Andy Price should have scored Harry Potter!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[bollemanneke 3,352]

This is a rather awkward question because I was supposed to be a HP fan before we entered the Nomaj period, but anyway...

 

I need some academic proof to back something up in my dissertation. Has it ever been established by producers/directors that the HP films were only made for people who read the books? Can anyone think of film things that just don't make sense at all if you haven't read the books? I mainly hate Yates for dumbing everything down, but I can't say anything without having proof.

[mstrox 6,651]

I enjoyed Hooper's scores much more than Desplat's scores.  I think he's gotten a bad rap.

[Jay 37,374]

10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

This is a rather awkward question because I was supposed to be a HP fan before we entered the Nomaj period, but anyway...

 

Nomaj period?

[bollemanneke 3,352]

As an American, you're now supposed to call Muggles Nomajes. Muggles no longer exist there, just in the books published by Scholastic. Surprised a re-print hasn't been announced yet.

[Jay 37,374]

Oh, right.

[Once 605]

7 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

This is a rather awkward question because I was supposed to be a HP fan before we entered the Nomaj period, but anyway...

 

I need some academic proof to back something up in my dissertation. Has it ever been established by producers/directors that the HP films were only made for people who read the books? Can anyone think of film things that just don't make sense at all if you haven't read the books? I mainly hate Yates for dumbing everything down, but I can't say anything without having proof.

Well, we don't know how Harry got hold of the broken mirror in Deathly Hallows.

Most of the films give us much of the information when it's needed, but skips the clues leading there.

[Jay 37,374]

43 minutes ago, Once said:

Most of the films give us much of the information when it's needed, but skips the clues leading there.

 

Yep! That's a big problem with basically all the films.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

I'd be more annoyed at Hooper's output if it wasn't for the fantastic soundtracks to the games OoTP and HBP done by James Hannigan, that was certainly a more worthy successor to the Williams sound.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

15 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

This is a rather awkward question because I was supposed to be a HP fan before we entered the Nomaj period, but anyway...

 

I need some academic proof to back something up in my dissertation. Has it ever been established by producers/directors that the HP films were only made for people who read the books? Can anyone think of film things that just don't make sense at all if you haven't read the books? I mainly hate Yates for dumbing everything down, but I can't say anything without having proof.

 

I think there's an interview with Heyman from around the time of OotP where he comments on the way they adapted the books. The idea was - around that time - that everything that happens in the books also happens in the film universe, just not all on-screen. I believe this was in reference to how they handled the Percy Weasley subplot. The interview might be on the DVD.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Thanks everyone! I agree that Hannigan did a great job, though he blew it with HP7 and 8.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

17 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

As an American, you're now supposed to call Muggles Nomajes. Muggles no longer exist there, just in the books published by Scholastic. Surprised a re-print hasn't been announced yet.

Sorry but that's just bull - "Muggle" is the UK term for non-magical person and "No-maj" is the American. It's not bloody retcon, it's just that there's been no Americans in the series up until now so it's only just come about.

 

And you have to admit, "Muggle" is such a ridiculously whimsical British word, it wouldn't make any sense for anyone else in the world to use that term in a colloquial way.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

So why wasn't this changed in the US editions, then? Why change it now? Why does Moaning Myrtle suddenly need a surname?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Because obviously the books are written from Harry's perspective, who is an English person, in the United Kingdom. So of course Muggle is still appropriate for the books. I don't see where your canon anxiety is coming from here?

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Buta sherbet lemon became a lemon drop. My problem is that Rowling needs to change her canon every single two weeks these days. Can't she just write one book about her world's history instead of that wrethced Pottermore thing?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

What are you talking about? She's not changing stuff, she's literally writing new material and fleshing out the universe as she goes along. We're not talking about midichlorians here, we're talking about a localised version of a very obviously slang term and the addition of a last name for a character who was only referred to as "Myrtle". It's just extra info for those who are interested in reading about it. It changes absolutely nothing of the original material and offers no new insight, and you can choose not to read it if you don't want to. I don't understand why you're so upset about this?

[bollemanneke 3,352]

But that's just it, the Myrtle bit adds no new information, so it's irrelevant. Everyone calls her Moaning Myrtle. Would you be interested in the colour of Hermione's grandmother's hair? What I hate about the Nomaj thing is again in your own post, 'as she is going along'. It was a totaly unnecessary bit if information. Are we going to talk about Nomajes now?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Holy shit dude, there's a trilogy of films coming out from Rowling's wizarding world, exclusively set in the US. It stands to reason that the community there operates very differently to their UK counterparts, including the language they use. She's continuing to build this universe. Just because she didn't come up with the term the day she started writing the first book doesn't mean she's not entitled to create these details now.

 

Myrtle's first name is part if a fictional biography of the character that the author though would be fun to write and share with people. That's. It. There's no grand conspiracy to rewrite your childhood dude, just calm your farm.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I am being calm, lol. As for the trilogy, the only thing that bothers me about it is that the idea didn't come from JKR herself. Who says WB isn't planning the agenda?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

but she's writing the screenplays. for all three. Where did you get the idea she didn't come up with it? what "agenda" do you speak of?

[bollemanneke 3,352]

WB cmae up with the Fantastic Beasts trilogy idea, she didn't. 

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Whether that's true or not is another story (I haven't read that anywhere), but she went on to create the rest of it, including the plot, characters and language. And even if she didn't and it was (as you say) a WB conspiracy, why does it matter anyway? It doesn't retroactively undo anything you've already read.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I guess I'm simply getting tired of the whole 'Harry Potter never ends' thing. It's also a psychological issue, I hate the idea of having to read 'canon' in bits and pieces on a website. I don't want to sound old, but at least the books don't change. Why not publish the entire history in book form, because she hasn't thought it through yet? Then there's that play script which they will now possibly turn into an audiobook. That's gonna make for captivating listening. Just... write the story in novel form! The story isn't even written by her. Am I making sense?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Are you tired of Star Wars never ending? Or any other fictional universe? It's all just money and stories. You don't actually have to consume it you know, and it's unhealthy to think that you're compelled to. The sooner you accept that perfect narratives don't exist in any form, and some stories aren't satisfying, the happier you'll be.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I'm not tired of Star Wars never ending because the prequels were, in my opinion, a signifcant improvement. I don't feel compelled to follow it, I mainly keep up with HP news to be informed about things like the concerts and possible new DVD releases. All I'm saying is that I would find it so much more exciting if she wrote books about her world. It's something substantial to look forward to. Now it's just, here's one fun fact, here's another. It gives me the impression that she's sort of tired of HP, but not really. The Casual Vacancy was a great novel, but she doesn't suddenly tell us who Samantha dated in the past, because it's irrelevant.

[Jay 37,374]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

41 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I'm not tired of Star Wars never ending because the prequels were, in my opinion, a signifcant improvement.

 

.......

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Shouldn't have sait that, should I?

[Bilbo 3,709]

Certain words were dumbed down for an American audience. Sweets went to candy, jumper to sweater, Philospher Stone became Sorcer, that sort of thing.

 

Changing muggle to nomaj wouldn't have achieved anything unless it was being said by an American but there are no Americans in the books. 

 

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Okay, that sort of makes sense, but the entire American fan community has been talking about Muggles, so...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Oh dear....

[Once 605]

Come on, it makes perfect sense. Americans within the wizarding world call Muggles for Nomajs.

 

If you want to seek out a new, simpler fandom I'd reckomend her Comoran Strike crime novels - they're very compelling and includes her gift at creating strong, funny and interesting characters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There are many instances where Americans and the British use different words for the same thing. From vacuum cleaner to hoover and from line to cue.

 

Makes perfect sense the same would be true in the wizarding world.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

There are many instances where Americans and the British use different words for the same thing. From vacuum cleaner to hoover and from line to cue.

 

It's actually spelled "queue".

[bollemanneke 3,352]

No it doesn't! 'Muggle' has been translated into multiple languages, why was Nomaj never mentioned before?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed it is! 

Thank you.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

"Nomaj" is just dumb.  Muggle should be the word, regardless of where you're from.  No charge for the advice, Rowling.