#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 The famous 2010 article by Roger Eberthttp://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/video-games-can-never-be-artI agree with this point.Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? Bobby Fischer, Michael Jordan and Dick Butkus never said they thought their games were an art form. Nor did Shi Hua Chen, winner of the $500,000 World Series of Mah Jong in 2009. Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves? They have my blessing, not that they care.Do they require validation? In defending their gaming against parents, spouses, children, partners, co-workers or other critics, do they want to be able to look up from the screen and explain, "I'm studying a great form of art?" Then let them say it, if it makes them happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 But it's actually a very valid point.They are computer GAMES. So there's a challenge, in some games you are competing against others. This doesn't really happen in art.Is a well designed game then not akin to a well designed Formula 1 car, rather then the Mona Lisa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Am I the only one around here wise enough to not feel the need to embrace wildly sweeping generalizations about art?"Music can never be art. Why are musicians intensely concerned with being considered artists? Do they need validation? Can't they be content to enjoy their music and leave *dramatic voice* true art to the more cultured among us?"I like Ebert as a guy who talked about movies, but here he's being a pretentious old twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 He was being a pretentious old twat. He's dead now.I would sooner accuse gamers who consider their pastime to be art as pretentious actually.Is playing poker art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What is art, Stefan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ask Koray! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 "I believe basketball is an art. When the game is played as it should be played, you'll see athletes perform with precision, finesse, rhythm, flair, and grace." - Oscar Robertson Gnome in Plaid and Marc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It can be art, if you let it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What isn't art? Is that an easier question Stefan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Ebert went so far off the deep end with this one that he admitted he erred later:I should not have written that entry without being more familiar with the actual experience of video games.http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/okay-kids-play-on-my-lawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 What isn't art, you ask?! According to a certain understanding and definition of the word: That what is not the very best of a certain kind of creativity. Something that doesn't rise about the common and the ordinary.Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Lol I remember when he wrote this, it was brilliant! He got absolutely destroyed for it, God rest his soul. BLUMENKOHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 His follow up was total class though. BLUMENKOHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Yeah, the inevitable back peddle while eating humble pie has never been put so eloquently. BLUMENKOHL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 BLUMENKOHL and Koray Savas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I hang art on a wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 CRT TVs must look a bloody site adorning your wall, Drax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Hey Quintus, why is John Locke boating with Kyle MacLachlan and some world leaders in your signature picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 It's an outake from Lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 CRT TVs must look a bloody site adorning your wall, Drax.They're eye-catching.Someone is outbidding me for the one I want on ebay. I must get it at a low cost! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 CRT TVs must look a bloody site adorning your wall, Drax.They're eye-catching.I bet. You must constantly twat your head against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Better viewing angles than LCD/LED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 With them hanging on your wall I should imagine you have trouble seeing much else inside your room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 "I believe basketball is an art. When the game is played as it should be played, you'll see athletes perform with precision, finesse, rhythm, flair, and grace." - Oscar RobertsonOk, fair point well made. Sport, at the highest level can indeed become art.However....most gamers are NOT athletes, like most people who play on their local soccer team, or play in the pub darts pool aren't athletes.Are there any professional leagues when it comes to computer games? Who is the Lionel Messi of World of Warcraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 For someone who hates and dismisses video games you sure as hell talk a lot about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 "I believe basketball is an art. When the game is played as it should be played, you'll see athletes perform with precision, finesse, rhythm, flair, and grace." - Oscar RobertsonOk, fair point well made. Sport, at the highest level can indeed become art.However....most gamers are NOT athletes, like most people who play on their local soccer team, or play in the pub darts pool aren't athletes.Are there any professional leagues when it comes to computer games? Who is the Lionel Messi of World of Warcraft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I actually don't think competitive PvP (player versus player) gameplay/design is 'artistic', either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 For someone who hates and dismisses video games you sure as hell talk a lot about it.Doldrums mate. It's months before the next Hobbit score, years before Star Wars 7. Gotta talk about something, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Nah, you were just baiting mate, we all knew it. But that's okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Of course. Anyone that did not realize that is a complete moron. Agreed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Why are gamers so intensely concerned, anyway, that games be defined as art? Bobby Fischer, Michael Jordan and Dick Butkus never said they thought their games were an art form. Nor did Shi Hua Chen, winner of the $500,000 World Series of Mah Jong in 2009. Why aren't gamers content to play their games and simply enjoy themselves? They have my blessing, not that they care. Do they require validation? In defending their gaming against parents, spouses, children, partners, co-workers or other critics, do they want to be able to look up from the screen and explain, "I'm studying a great form of art?" Then let them say it, if it makes them happy. Because, like film music, video games still are a neglected type of media/art (however you classify them) that isn't taken seriously, or understood, by a lot of people. Also, you're mixing two very different aspects about games: The act of playing them, like the act of driving a F1 car or watching a film (is watching a film art? Hardly - but playing whatever kind of game can perhaps, in advanced cases, be) and the actual game itself - which, like a film, is a multimedial piece of work that may very well be classified as art if other types of media are. There's visual design, music, storytelling, technical implementation, overall concept and, additionally, an interactive component. And doesn't art nowadays often rely more heavily on the interaction between medium and recipient than on the actual content? There's a wide range of innovation and quality, of course, but especially in video games, you can have very abstract creations that just provide a unique experience of some kind, like an abstract piece of art. Ultimately though, even by more traditional means, I'd definitely call well designed games art, in the same way I do with films. And the same goes for tabletop games (which are of course much more restricted and mostly lack the multimedial component). Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 24, 2014 Author Share Posted July 24, 2014 Sport can, on very rare occasion approach art. Though I admit there are difficulties.Sport exists in the moment. Art is longer lasting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 As I said, there's a distinction to be made. I don't think video gaming as sport is art. Not up to now, anyway.But played alone, in an intricately designed world? That's another story.A great single player game world (and narrative) can be visionary art. I've experienced it, on occasion. There's nothing else like it. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If Journey isn't art, I don't know what is. Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Unfortunately there are professional video game sports leagues and classes and TV channels and collegiate tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If Journey isn't art, I don't know what is.I know its visual style was strong artistically, but would you say the gameplay aesthetic itself was extraordinary and even profound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I think some videogames are a form of artwork just as much as movies. I can get more involved emotionally in the story of a videogame than a lot of movies. And some of the concept designs is often more researched than movies. Some of the stories (like Final Fantasy titles) are just as beloved as "classic movies" we discuss here. When I was playing Dark Souls I felt I was part of an elaborate interactive fantasy world that movies cannot even come close to matchingAnd like movies, some are cheap trash and some are masterpieces, so you can't generalized.Obviously Stefancos started this as trolling thread since he's never played a videogame and seems to consider them a waste of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamTheater 131 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 If Journey isn't art, I don't know what is.I know its visual style was strong artistically, but would you say the gameplay aesthetic itself was extraordinary and even profound?The artistry of Journey is how it makes me feel after an hour and a half session. It's indescribable. And it floors me every time. That combination of arresting visuals, heartfelt music and just experiencing the journey with somebody you don't even know but connect with is the very definition of art for me.I think some videogames are a form of artwork just as much as movies. I can get more involved emotionally in the story of a videogame than a lot of movies. And some of the concept designs is sometimes more researched than movies. Some of the stories (like Final Fantasy titles) are just as beloved as "classic movies" we discuss here.And like, movies, some are cheap trash and some are masterpieces, so you can't generalized.The design of Bioshock Infinite, on every level is a work of art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 Literally on every level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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