JW Themes of 2002

[tpigeon 3]

Of the themes/concert pieces selected, which do you think is the best?

Ted, who hasn't decided yet.

[Lurker 5]

This was a tough one, between "Fawkes the Phoenix" and "The Chamber of Secrets". I ultimately went with "The Chamber of Secrets".

Neil

[tpigeon 3]

Good selection. The Chamber of Secrets, I've observed, wasn't discussed all that much on this Board and for what reason I don't know. I guess "Fawkes" sort of dominated the discussion when the CD was released a few months ago. But the Chamber fo Secrets theme is a great theme with some very good strings and brass and I love the buildup.

Ted, who still hasn't decided yet.

[Guest]

Tough one between "Across the stars" and "Fawkes the Phoenix" for me.

I want to use this to say that blaming "Across the stars" of being a Hook "rip-off" is b...well, not true!

I finally went for "Fawkes the Phoenix", mainly because it´s so(positively) old-fashioned, it sounded familiar to me the first time I heard it and that was before seeing the movie .

[Trumpeteer 302]

Of the themes on the list, I voted for "Catch Me If You Can."

But the best theme of 2002 was "Spyders" from "Minority Report."

[tpigeon 3]

I was thinking about adding "Minority Report," track 1 from the soundtrack, on to the list because it's the end credits to the movie and serves as a concert suite for the score in a way, similar to Catch Me If You Can. "The Spiders" cue is in that piece as you know.

Ted, who finally voted on Fawkes the Phoenix despite the inner conflict

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Since you didn't have the Float on the list I went with Chamber of Secrets.

[tpigeon 3]

That's two that I could have added to the list... I wasn't sure which one to have on there, The Float or the End Credits. The Catch Me If You Can reprise I believe has that theme featured in the Float, it's just not as developed if I recall. I would add these things, but people have already voted for other things.

Ted

[Morn 8]

Ironically Fawkes the Phoenix, which is from what I think is the weakest score this year (by williams). But great theme!

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

COS slightly beats Across the Stars.

Marian - who will be VERY pissed off if Austrian children get to hear that live next year and he doesn't.

[tpigeon 3]

Ironically Fawkes the Phoenix, which is from what I think is the weakest score this year (by williams). But great theme!

Why do you think it's the weakest?

[ocelot 508]

Chamber of secrets for me, followed closely by Aross the Stars, Fawkes Theme and Catch me if you Can.

[ocelot 508]

It's intereting to note what type of fans are on this board from the choices in these polls.......

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I say Fawkes the Phoenix.

[tpigeon 3]

It's intereting to note what type of fans are on this board from the choices in these polls.......

What do you mean?

[Rogue_Leader 2]

It's intereting to note what type of fans are on this board from the choices in these polls.......

What do you mean?

He means only JW themes were given despite the fact that poll was "Best Theme of 2002" which would imply that would cover all composers.

At least I think that is what he meant.

[tpigeon 3]

Well it's meant to be a JW poll and seeing how this is a JW Board, I didn't think it was necesary to mention that since it's rather obvious I think.

Ted

[Miguel Andrade 1,264]

Recollections from Catch Me If You Can. Across the Stars and Sean's Theme came close.

[Justin 2]

Wow I am suprised at how many votes CoS is getting. I thought Fawkes or AOTC would win.

Go Chamber!!

Justin

[scissorhands 16]

The Float and PreCrime.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

BTW, Dobby the House Elf should be listed too.

Marian - who'd still vote for COS.

[Beowulf 4]

It was hard for me to choose between the "Love Theme" from AOTC (aka "Actoss the Stars") and "Fawke's Theme". The "Love theme" from AOTC was something I hadn't heard from JW before, a moody and tragic-feeling romantic theme. But ultimately, I chose "Fawke's Theme" since it hearkens back to JW's scores from the past, and reminded me of some of my favorite JW scores.

[diskobolus 3]

sadly, COS was barely used in the final cut. i went with fawkes. i almost cried when i heard it the first time.

and across the stars IS a copy of flight to neverland. just speed it up, and the themes are the same.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I think all the COS theme bits are in the movie.

Marian - who'll have to wait for the DVD to verify this.

Star Trek: Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)

[Guest]

and across the stars IS a copy of flight to neverland. just speed it up, and the themes are the same.

Huh?

This is like saying "The Imperial March" is a copy of "Mars" from Holst :roll: !

Jakster-who loves "The Planets", but they are no Star Wars, you know

[tpigeon 3]

I think all the COS theme bits are in the movie.

Marian - who'll have to wait for the DVD to verify this.

Star Trek: Nemesis (Jerry Goldsmith)

In the credits. Unfortunately, the theme is not often used in the film. It's effective when it is used, but that isn't too much unfortunately. Speaking of recycling music, everyone rips on AOTC for using TPM music but there are several scenes in COS with recycled music from the first one that simply didn't belong. Ok, so much of it was re-recorded, but in the context of the film it sounded the same and I found it rather annoying to hear so much music from the original score. You would thinkin when they discover the Chamber itself that we would hear a huge rendition of the COS theme, but instead its something from the first movie. I don't get it. Then again, there was that whole Ross/Williams controversy so who knows who was responsible for it. Nevertheless, I am a little upset over use of (or lack there of) the COS theme.

Ted

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I have a feeling that this may be obvious, but I voted for Fawkes the Phoenix. So uplifting and beautiful . . . I've described it enough previously though, so I'll refrain from any paragraph-long gushing.

Across the Stars is a semi-close second for me, although I do love all the themes listed. No matter how good any piece is, I think I will just always be partial to music that tugs on the heartstrings (mine, at least).

In the credits. Unfortunately, the theme is not often used in the film. It's effective when it is used, but that isn't too much unfortunately. Speaking of recycling music, everyone rips on AOTC for using TPM music but there are several scenes in COS with recycled music from the first one that simply didn't belong. Ok, so much of it was re-recorded, but in the context of the film it sounded the same and I found it rather annoying to hear so much music from the original score. You would thinkin when they discover the Chamber itself that we would hear a huge rendition of the COS theme, but instead its something from the first movie. I don't get it. Then again, there was that whole Ross/Williams controversy so who knows who was responsible for it. Nevertheless, I am a little upset over use of (or lack there of) the COS theme.  

I wholeheartedly agree, Ted. I was also irritated at some of the musical choices for the film, including the use of Norbert's music for the slug scene( :? ), the Chess suspense music for Harry's run to Ginny, and practically identical Quidditch music. And every time I saw the film, I thought the exact thing about the Chamber's opening. The grandiose rendition of the Chamber theme toward the end of the concert piece would have been perfect for that scene. And why not incorporate the theme into the Basilisk scene? Like you said, the Ross/Williams situation makes everything a little hazy. This is one reason I'm hoping Williams will have the opportuniy to score POA in a sufficient amount of time, by himself.

Ray Barnsbury

[Morn 8]

Ironically Fawkes the Phoenix, which is from what I think is the weakest score this year (by williams). But great theme!

Why do you think it's the weakest?

Lacks the colourful textures of Philosphers Stone, and it sounds like Williams wrote it quickly, and he did. And a lot of the music is rehashed or rather typical for Williams. It really only has one killer track but much of the rest is enjoyable but nothing great . When I say weakest I don't mean it's a bad score, I do think it's been a great year with both Minority Report and AOTC. And, I think King Mark is right when he says Williams wrote it, or most of it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

And why not incorporate the theme into the Basilisk scene?

Actually, last time I tried to analyze it, I developed the theory that the theme used in the Basilisk fight is a variation on the Voldemort theme....I'll have to check that again, since when trying to hear the music in my head, I don't hear any similarities.

Marian - who will start a thread about the Potter themes soon.

[tpigeon 3]

It really only has one killer track but much of the rest is enjoyable but nothing great.

Is that the "Fawkes" track, or are you referring to a different one? I would actually kind of agree with what you're saying in that I think the score is listenable and enjoyable but with the exception of a few really good aspects such as the concert pieces and a few action cues, it's not brilliant. I love the "Spiders" cue as well as "Dueling the Basilisk," I think they're great action pieces.

Ted

[UCFKevin 0]

How is it that Across the Stars has gotten 9 votes and is running at a very close second but no one is saying they picked it?

Is it just that the folks who voted aren't talking about it by pure chance or are people not wanting to admit they picked it?

I definitely picked it, I LOVE Across the Stars, it's so gorgeous and very bittersweet. One of my favorite recent Williams creations.

[Morn 8]

LOL UCFKevin.

Is that the "Fawkes" track, or are you referring to a different one?

Yes, and I pretty much totally agree with you otherwise. AOTC and MR both have several killer tracks.

[tpigeon 3]

How is it that Across the Stars has gotten 9 votes and is running at a very close second but no one is saying they picked it?  

Is it just that the folks who voted aren't talking about it by pure chance or are people not wanting to admit they picked it?

I definitely picked it, I LOVE Across the Stars, it's so gorgeous and very bittersweet. One of my favorite recent Williams creations.

good point.

[Guest]

I voted for Fawkes mainly because it was a Harry Potter theme and i am a huge HP fan. It was JW's score for Philosopher's Stone that made me first start buying his music, so thats why I love the HP scores so much.

When i first heard this song, i was amazed at how great John Williams is at what he does. I think it is his most powerful Theme this year, slightly infront of Across the Stars.

I agree with what people are saying about all the rerecorded music for COS, i really wasn't happy with that! It always distracted me and pulled me away from the scene when i heard music which had just been completely ripped away from the first movie. But apart from that, I loved COS! I can't wait for the DVD!!!

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Difficult, hard, tough, arduous and dodgy.

I know I will likely --though unwillingly-- sadden Ray now , but after comparative listening to both Across the Stars and Fawkes the Phoenix, I'm picking Across the Stars as my favorite. To me this Star Wars theme sounds a tiny bit more compact, although Fawkes has a faster impact on me each time I listen to it.

Anyway, the tune I have been humming since I've heard it is Catch Me If You Can's invigorating opening track, which at the same time could be the JW's most original tune of 2003's. S' wonderful it gets, so youthfully it sounds, so very little developed it is that it's sad!

Roman.-)

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

LOL Thanks for the concern, Roman, but don't worry about it! Like I said, the love theme was my second choice, and your opinions are your own.

Ray Barnsbury

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Most original...hmm. It's nice, but I'm really annoyed by that direct quote from Across the Stars in it, I just can't ignore it.

Marian - hoping this isn't the new Ludlow.

[tpigeon 3]

Since someone expressed interest in "Dobby the House Elf" being in the poll I am going to replace "Gilderoy Lockhart with it, as it appears to be more popular and Gilderoy hasn't gotten a single vote.

Ted, who feels like George Lucas now

[Morn 8]

Most original...hmm. It's nice, but I'm really annoyed by that direct quote from Across the Stars in it, I just can't ignore it.

Marian - hoping this isn't the new Ludlow.

It doesn't bother me much, I actually found it rather amusing to see what he did with it.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I went for Across the Stars but it was in reality a match between that and Catch Me If You Can. I went for the first one because it had a certain back-at-Star-Wars feeling to it.

I never cared much for the Chamber of Secrets score, and Sean's Theme was great, but it was no match for CMIYC or ATS.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Since someone expressed interest in "Dobby the House Elf" being in the poll I am going to replace "Gilderoy Lockhart with it, as it appears to be more popular and Gilderoy hasn't gotten a single vote.

My point was that both should be there. Both are wonderful, though given the other options, I still wouldn't have voted for either.

Marian - who still thinks Moaning Myrtle might be a concert version as well.

The Blue Max (Jerry Goldsmith)

[tpigeon 3]

Since someone expressed interest in "Dobby the House Elf" being in the poll I am going to replace "Gilderoy Lockhart with it, as it appears to be more popular and Gilderoy hasn't gotten a single vote.

My point was that both should be there. Both are wonderful, though given the other options, I still wouldn't have voted for either.

Marian - who still thinks Moaning Myrtle might be a concert version as well.

The Blue Max (Jerry Goldsmith)

I know, but I didn't want to risk completely screwing up the poll by getting it the way it should be. Being the organized person that I am, I would want all the pieces to be organized properly.

Ted

[King Mark 3,631]

I picked Fawkes Theme.And I love the other track Fawkes Reborn just as much.

I like the last track of MR,A New Beginning better than Sean's Theme,though it might just be an extension of it.

The Float would be the best of MR,much better than the reprise,in part because it's much more developped and I don't like the theme in track 1 as much.

K.M.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

..., and your opinions are your own...

Ray, I carefully read all your posts you post here and each time you mention something you like and if it's something I don't have yet I know needn't be afraid of going wrong with that... It's called unparalleled trustworthiness, isn't it...?

Most original...hmm. It's nice, but I'm really annoyed by that direct quote from Across the Stars in it, I just can't ignore it.

I had to play both themes a minute ago to listen for the similarity you're mentioning. Well, I know I am not perfect and I must admit I hadn't noticed it until you mentioned it, Marian, and I don't mean to downplay your observation, it's all there and it's undeniable, but, for all that, I would add it into the same category with CMIYC's suggested similarities to Sabrina, Jim's New Life and Minority Report. I don't deny them, but they are so minor in comparison to one I am about to mention in the next sentence that I marvel at that there has been made no obvious mention of it so far. Just listen to "The Float" as it progresses and try not to think of Harry Potter and the Hogwarts...

Roman.-)

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I can't. First time I listened to the score, I thought "what's that?". It stands out for me each time, because it comes with a change of instrumentation and everything.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

..., and your opinions are your own...

Ray, I carefully read all your posts you post here and each time you mention something you like and if it's something I don't have yet I know needn't be afraid of going wrong with that... It's called unparalleled trustworthiness, isn't it...?

beerchug

Ray Barnsbury

[tpigeon 3]

Looks like it has come down to the Love Theme and Fawkes, which both hold a commanding lead over everything else.

[King Mark 3,631]

I also like the Across the Stars theme a lot more now than I did last summer.It grew on me.

K.M.

[Guest]

Across the Stars, it's a classic. Other composers might write a nice love theme (eg. Braveheart, which is pretty good), but of course Williams goes far beyond that and writes not only a haunting theme, but also puts in that menacing middle section for contrast. The way it builds in tension is masterful, and the word that comes to mind to describe it is cool. Every time I listen to it I admire how cool and hip it is, with that final descending horn line being the icing on the cake.

Also, the orchestration of the whole piece is nothing short of amazing.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

AI and king mark, I so much agree with you!

I can't tell whether this is any indication of profoundness and quality writing behind major JW's themes, but I have exactly same feelings about growing number of JW's scores. The first "tough nut to crack" among John Williams' scores for me was Close Encounters score. Whereas around the time of getting acquainted with this particular soundtrack I would have reviewed it with 3 stars on the five-star scale at best, today it's my top ten favorite and a five-star score. I don't want to kick dirt at James Horner or Rachel Portman repeatedly, but never ever have I come through the same stage of "growing on me" as to their scores. I can almost immediately fall in love with a theme or repudiate it at the same time and I don't have to force myself into repeat listening just in case it might be helped by dozens of additional listenings. Also, some other composers' scores, as beautiful as their themes can be at first few listenings, may eventually become weary. I don't intend to compare John Williams to, say, Gustav Mahler or Bernard Herrmann, but prevailing number of his concert works and some of his "musing" compositions require a due time to be given to.

I don't want to rehash my old same observations into endlessness because they might not grow on you guys ;-), but I also consider "a-day-after-its-release" reviews of John Williams' soundtracks and concert pieces an act of rashness and that is also why I prefer to read reviews of not only his stuff that come out a good number of months after initial listening.

Yes, John Williams is nothing short of genius. I can write a theme on my guitar but will likely amuse and only a handful of people who know me and won't risk disappointing me, while our Big Johnny gives joy with his music to millions and millions of us and that's heavenly.

And yes, Morn, I have a complex, but this is something I expect to not be a hurdle over here, hehehe. Anyway, you're the first person to notice it.

Roman.-)