Live to Projection: Independence Day by David Arnold

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

David Arnold will present a live orchestra screening of Independence Day at the Royal Albert Hall in September.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Cool!

[Jay 37,364]

Holy frig that's AWESOME!  It needs to come to the USA and I need to see it!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Lee's a pussy if he doesnt go and see this!

[Jay 37,364]

I might fly to London for this!

[Incanus 5,715]

Very cool news! I am glad these live to projection performances are becoming a trend. Long may it last!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

13 minutes ago, Jay said:

I might fly to London for this!

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll come to Sydney. The Sydney Symphony Orchestra will be doing a lot of these live to projection events this year.

[crumbs 14,317]

3 hours ago, Drax said:

 

I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll come to Sydney. The Sydney Symphony Orchestra will be doing a lot of these live to projection events this year.

 

This! Would buy tickets in a heartbeat if this came to Australia. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

If it can't, I'd at least like it if they record it and release a limited CD.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Fuck it, I want to go. How much do I have to spend on airfare? Accommodation isn't necessary. I'd just be in and out. If you calculate the time it takes to destroy a city and move on, we're looking at the worldwide destruction of every major city... in the next 36 hours.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Why not just get him to score Resurgence?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Yeah since Kloser reckons Arnold's score is so great.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Definitely going! This more than makes up for him not scoring Resurgence. Being forced to do a modern day blockbuster score for a film that looks awful, or seeing and hearing every note of his original score live to the film in my favourite concert hall on earth. Not a difficult choice.

[Miz 139]

Ha. The British win Independence Day! I'd like to see this too. 3 hour train ride away. *strokes chin*

[Jay 37,364]

Royal Albert Hall tries to invite aliens to Independence Day Live. Fails.

 

 

 

[nightscape94 965]

Would love to see this score live.  Come to America!  Please!

 

[crocodile 8,017]

21 hours ago, crocodile said:

I might have a free press ticket for the Independence Day performance later this month in London. I can't make it as I'm away at this time (which is a bit of a shame) and the kind people from Royal Albert Hall let me transfer it over to someone else. The only thing I ask in return is a concert report article for FOW.

 

It's Thursday the 22nd of September at 7 pm.

 

Let me know.

 

Karol

 

Anyone interested?

 

Karol

[JWMike 117]

9 hours ago, crocodile said:

 

Anyone interested?

 

Karol

 

I'm game if you can't find anyone more qualified.

 

Full disclosure:

Never been to a film music or live to projection concert.

No article writing experience.

No musical education.

Although I like the score (I have and enjoy the LLL expansion) and film (watched many times on VHS as a kid) I wouldn't really be an expert on either.

[crocodile 8,017]

Already found someone. But thank you. 

 

And I don't think writing experience is that important in blogging anyway. So I wouldn't worry about that.

 

Karol

[Loert 2,511]

 

Can't wait to see this on Thursday!

[Jay 37,364]

<-- Jealous!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Great ASMR voice!

[leeallen01 2,136]

Soooooooo looking forward to this. I haven't been this excited for a live to film concert since LOTR.

[leeallen01 2,136]

Getting settled in for Arnold's pre-concert talk.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Enjoy!

[Jay 37,364]

Very cool, @leeallen01!

 

Report back on what he talks about, and how the concert was!

[leeallen01 2,136]

He spoke about the ins and out of scoring the film, like how he went for a patriotic americana score and the obvious stuff. But as David is a very funny guy, there was a lot of laughs from his stories. Such as how he wished he could score every salute, and get the crowd in the hall to cheer every time someone salutes in the film.

 

He mentioned how he saw the white house model blown up and it looked awful and disappointing until they watched it back in slow-mo and it was amazing.

 

Apparently someone has been working for 9 months to get the score ready for the concert, because of course the score is chopped and changed in the film-making process, so what he originally wrote wont match the film at all without major restructuring.

 

He didn't mention not scoring Resurgence which is a pity, as I imagine the crowd would have boo'd or something if he said he wasn't asked.

 

He also spoke about Stargate, and how it was his first big moment in film scoring and hollywood. As a lifelong Stargate fan, it was nice to hear the whole hall just cheer and clap when he just mentioned the word Stargate.

 

He said he's working on the new series of Sherlock at the minute too.

 

Film starts in 15 mins. 

[Jay 37,364]

Wow, nice.  I'm sure all the music played to cover where the original compositions were edited to conform will be gracefully done.  They usually do a good job of that for these concerts.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thats why i am curious about Aliens. The tracking in that film is incredible 

[Jay 37,364]

There's a very small amount of music that actually ended up where James Horner wrote it for!

 

It's funny too because as much as Cameron totally butchered the score, the final film works perfectly fine and nothing seems out of place

[leeallen01 2,136]

It's intermission.

 

The ratio of dialogue, sound effects and music is way off tonight unfortunately. The dialogue is usually loud anyway in live to film concerts, but it is extremely loud and echoing and, along with the sound effects, it is almost completely drowning out the music. I came to the concert to hear the nuances of the orchestra playing the full score, but you can only hear the orchestra when it is a very loud action moment. And even then, the brass are the only real instrument group you can hear. Quite disappointed to be honest. They really need to turn the sound of the film down. I was very happy when I noticed they weren't using subtitles like they stupidly do at other live to film concerts, but I was quickly annoyed by not being able to hear 90% of the music. It baffles me how the sound engineers didn't sort it out before. How anyone can think the ratio is right is beyond me. 

[Jay 37,364]

Wow, that is really surprising!

At every live to projection concert I've been to, the dialogue and sound effects were absolutely dialed down from a normal mix so you could hear the music better.  A few times during big action scenes in Radiers, you couldn't even hear the dialogue at all.

 

Where did they place the intermission?

[leeallen01 2,136]

The intermission was just after the scene when the first lady is found injured by her crashed helicopter.

 

I'm very pleased to announce though, that the 2nd half was far far better ratio wise. I guess they sorted some of the echo and lowered the sound. It was much clearer and the quiet musical moments were gorgeous. Like when the first lady dies and the wedding, and as they leave orbit and Smith says that he's been dreaming of space his whole life. The choir were more audible too, and even the nuanced woodwinds came through. Much better. 

 

As I said earlier of Arnold wanting everyone to cheer when someone saluted, the whole hall wooo'd every time someone saluted haha. It was hilarious. Sometimes 5 woo's in a single 10 second scene. It was great. And of course the best moment of the film got a big cheer and a laugh. "HELLO BOYS! I'M BAAAAAACK!"

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How vulgar!

[Loert 2,511]

I can pretty much echo what leeallen01 said about the mixing. It seemed like the sound mixer was more interested in making the explosions really loud for the audience than in bringing out the music. At the time I wasn't particularly shocked by this because it wasn't much better than the ROTLA LtP concert I went to before, anyway. But yeah, the loud, quick parts in the music were reduced to noise - particularly "Firestorm" and "Base Attack", where you occasionally heard a trumpet here and a whirling piccolo there, but the music was hopelessly lost.

 

The second part was noticeably better. You could actually hear the action music, but a lot of the detail was still lost. For example, when Randy Quaid shows up with the last missile, you could hear those loud horns blaring, and some kind of background, but that's about it. It was still very impressive, though. Quite frankly, I thought I was going to die just because of how epic that whole battle scene was with the music, even if I couldn't hear all the nuances in the orchestra.

 

And yeah, I actually thought that the quieter moments were the orchestral highlights. "El Toro Destroyed", "The Death of Marilyn", "Aftermath", all those tracks sounded magnificent, mainly because there weren't any bloody EXPLOSIONS obscuring it!

 

All in all, I got the impression that a large portion of people who turned up were not so interested in hearing the score, but mainly interested in just watching the film on a huge screen in the Royal Albert Hall. When I was waiting outside to show my tickets, I heard more than one person ask the staff "So when does the actual film start?", and during the Arnold talk there were about 1/2 of the people inside the auditorium than who came for the film. Maybe I'm just being cynical, but that was my overall impression, which is a bit of a shame as personally, I would've been fine with the film mix turned way down and the orchestra mix more prominent (or not even "mixed" at all), but I assume the sound engineers were pressured to turn it up for the explosions! (And yeah, those explosions were ear-shattering alright!)

 

During the talk, Arnold and Tommy Pearson were saying how they were deciding whether to add subtitles or not, but in the end chose not to, because it doesn't matter if you can't understand what they're saying anyway! Which is true to an extent, I guess! Also, in addition to what leeallen01 has already said, Arnold claimed that Emmerich offered him the role of the British solder, the one who says "It's about bloody time! What do the Americans want us to do?" in the Morse Code sequence. He didn't end up getting it, but I couldn't hear why. Also, Pearson questioned Arnold on how he actually went about writing all the notes for such a massive score, and Arnold said that he essentially worked 8am to midnight, 7 days a week, for four months, but that the highlight of each day was getting out of his hotel room and going with Nicholas Dodd to the Santa Monica Boulevard to grab a bite for dinner! But that took only about 40 minutes, and the rest of the day was spent composing. That's what he claims, anyway!

 

As for the actual orchestra, this is a picture of the setup from where I was sitting:

 

 

A 24-piece choir was positioned behind the two harps, off to the left. The whole rear was filled with percussion, including a keyboard synth, which played those creepy effects you hear when Goldblum and Smith are entering the mother ship. There were also two timpani sets, which was not surprising for a huge score like this, and there was a point at which the two timpanists were playing at the same time, at the end of the track "He Did It!", and were doubled by the taiko drum which can be seen at the rear left (in red). That's the drum which plays that deep rhythm during the alien motif (e.g. in the End Credits, between 2:55 - 3:45), the one that spells out "DIE" in Morse code. I was expecting a bigger taiko to be honest, but it actually made a fairly large sound (relatively speaking! ). The thunder sheet to the left was used during the end credits, during that same alien bit with the taiko, but it may have been used someplace else as well - I wasn't looking at the orchestra the entire time!

 

But what definitely did catch my eye was the Mahler hammer, situated just in front of the gong on the rear-right (hidden in the picture). There's a really obvious place where you hear the Mahler hammer in the score album, and it's at 2:20 of "Base Attack". You absolutely cannot miss it on the album, but at the LtP, while you could see the guy swinging it, you couldn't hear a thing! (To be fair, I couldn't really hear anything during that scene anyway.) However, the hammer did re-appear in the end credits - in fact, the guy was swinging it every few seconds (for those who have the orchestral score, the "Large Drum" from m.85 is actually the Mahler hammer). People around me started laughing at this, because it just looked so unusual, but even then, without any sound effects, we still couldn't hear it, I think just because there were so many other instruments playing during that bit anyway.

 

I'm not criticizing the orchestra of course. The orchestra played wonderfully from what I could hear, despite a few missed notes in the brass (particularly towards the end of the film), but I really don't hold it against them because you'd have to be super-human to play through the whole thing without making any mistakes. It's a really difficult score for everyone to play, after all, especially with all those awkward cuts made to sync to the film. As for Gavin Greenaway, he absolutely conducted his heart out. It's just such a shame that the orchestral sound wasn't better (despite the fact that the mix was better in the second half than in the first half).

 

I will say, though, that as an experience I enjoyed this immensely. It was definitely loud and...well, fun. We had a ton of fun (the whooping at every salute was especially hilarious!). But I'm beginning to think that, if I'm going to go into these things expecting to listen to the full score in all its detail, I will be disappointed. This mixing issue was not just something I experienced for this LtP, I experienced it in the ROTLA LtP a few months ago as well. I'll be going to the Jurassic Park LtP in November, but if the mixing is not satisfactory there then I'll just stop going to these things, at least at the RAH.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, it's just that I've had my ears shattered and it's almost 2am here so I'm a little bit delirious...

[leeallen01 2,136]

I too am going to the Jurassic Park concert in November, and as there are far less loud action moments in that, I'm hoping the score is way more audible in the mix.

[Jay 37,364]

Thank you @loert for your report!  I really enjoyed reading it!

 

 

So from what you guys could hear, the music was changed well-enough to match the editing in the final film?  Nothing too awkward?

[nightscape94 965]

21 hours ago, leeallen01 said:

Getting settled in for Arnold's pre-concert talk.

 

Hope more people showed up by the time he started talking!

[leeallen01 2,136]

6 hours ago, Jay said:

 

So from what you guys could hear, the music was changed well-enough to match the editing in the final film?  Nothing too awkward?

 

I didn't notice anything radically different. The placements appeared to work well throughout. 

 

3 hours ago, nightscape94 said:

 

Hope more people showed up by the time he started talking!

 

It was quite full when he was talking. Almost the same amount during the concert itself from what I could see. Though I suspect most people were thinking the film itself was meant to start at 7pm, not the pre-concert talk. 

 

[Omen II 1,235]

18 hours ago, loert said:

Arnold claimed that Emmerich offered him the role of the British solder, the one who says "It's about bloody time! What do the Americans want us to do?" in the Morse Code sequence. He didn't end up getting it, but I couldn't hear why.

 

He said that union rules prevented him doing the scene in the end.

 

I thought the sound mixing was fine overall to be honest (although I agree it was better in the second half than the first).  The Royal Albert Hall is a wonderful old concert hall but there are places where the acoustics are pretty poor, for example if you are sitting at 'twelve o'clock' to the stage when it can be difficult to hear the strings at all.  I was in the stalls (block L) at about ten o'clock from the stage if that makes sense and the sound was fine - I could hear the Mahler hammer and the violins well despite both being on opposite sides of the stage.

 

It had been a long time since I had seen the film from start to finish (I remember going to see it when it was released) and I really enjoyed it.  It was great to see a choir - which I really had not expected - and the excellent Maida Vale Singers to boot, the go to choir for the John Wilson Orchestra's finest gigs.  I think the late start took some people unawares; the actual film started at 8 p.m., so with the intermission it did not finish until almost 11 p.m.  Although this was not a problem travel-wise for me, I saw a fair few people having to leave at the intermission presumably to catch trains home if they had travelled from further afield.

 

I have found one brief clip so far on YouTube which gives at least a flavour of the night's entertainment.

 

 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Yeah I suspected that the echo and poor sound was due to my seating location. I thought from countless past concerts I've been to at the hall, that it would be fine, but it was definitely a lot different and shockingly poor for the entire first half where I was sat. I was at 12 o'clock position from the stage, at the top circle seating.

 

Maybe I'll consider different seating when I next go to a live to film concert. After Jurassic Park of course, which I have already bought tickets for, unfortunately in the same place. But the less explosions should improve the orchestra sound. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why didnt they have subtitles?

[leeallen01 2,136]

I think because Arnold thought it pointless, which I've always thought. Whoever is there has seen the film countless times, and if you're deaf then why are you at a concert...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, leeallen01 said:

Whoever is there has seen the film countless times

 

Isnt that an assumption?

[leeallen01 2,136]

If they haven't then they've sure spent a lot of money to see something they don't know. Either way, subtitles at a film music concert is idiotic, because let's say then that 'the overwhelming majority' have seen the film before, and are there for the spectacle of seeing it and hearing the music in a much grander setting, so they don't really care about missing the odd bit of dialogue because of the loud music, and if they are there to hear the dialogue and not the music then they're idiots and are wasting their own time, and if they're deaf and need subtitles to know what is being said, then a film 'music' concert is a poor choice for a night out. 

 

So basically, subtitles at a film music concert makes no sense at all.

[Omen II 1,235]

Another earthling has posted a little montage of some of the highlights.  About bloody time!

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I disagree. If you are there 100% for the music then subtitles aren't needed. But I would say a fair few are their to actually watch the film, but with a live orchestra playing the music.

And the fact that the dialogue is muted to some extent so it doesnt drown out the live music makes the inclusion of subtitles desirable for those who are looking for the full experience.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Make it a silent film experience and put those black and white subtitle cards up every few seconds.

[leeallen01 2,136]

I think they should mute the orchestra at film music concerts, and they should just have them miming the music, so everyone can hear the film and not that pesky music.

 

Stick a sign language person in the bottom half of the screen too for shits and giggles. 

[SyncMan 314]

I found another video from that LTP concert at the RAH

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKsIc8aArGj/

 

This came from this blog:

Stuff that occurs to me: Independence Day Live at the Royal Albert Hall was incredible (brodiesnotes.blogspot.com)

 

I have a question for those who attended the ID4-Live concert at the RAH or in Dublin.

@Omen II

@leeallen01

 

As heard in the film’s sound-mix during the final battle with the invaders, portions of the music-cue ‘Hide’ (Disc 2, Track 3, LLL-CD) were re-used during the footage where people from the mobile-homes at the Area 54 base evacuating when the alien scout-ships were arriving.  Do any of you recall if that portion of the music was repeated at the concert, or, was there new music over that said footage?