WESTWORLD (HBO TV)

[Arpy 4,145]

@Edmilson I'll take Djawadi's synth noodling over his shallow Game of Thrones scores any day. At least Westworld is a more suitable canvas for the dark, pounding tone.

 

I don't think it's overscored, but I did notice moments where the music could've had more substance to it.

 

I did like how they're using the Westworld main theme to underscore that moment between Dolores and Caleb, the two characters sharing a common traits. Dolores' theme gets a few variations in the last episode, especially in a scene with Clone Charlotte possibly hinting at her true identity...

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

3 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else thinks this show is over scored?

 

Yes, I have thought this several times since the first season. Still love that first season OST though!

[Edmilson 7,454]

The OST for the first season had so many great tracks, specially the ones from the season finale. I specially love Trompe L'Oeil (orchestral version of the Man in Black theme) and Bicameral Mind. But I haven't bothered with the S2 OST album, I wasn't exactly a fan of the music.

 

S1 still had the best score for the show.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

16 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone else thinks this show is over scored? I mean, there's Djawadi score in pratically every minute of each episode. Sure, it helps creating the atmosphere of the show, but it can get a little tiresome sometimes.

 

But setting the atmosphere is 99% of Djawadi does successfully. The music itself (even for a show like this, where it's much better than e.g. GoT) doesn't amount to much aside from creating a fitting mood for what happens on screen.

[Edmilson 7,454]

That was... a very intense episode, wasn't it?

 

And I know I criticized the guy, but Djawadi's score for this one was really good. His cover for the auction fight scene worked pretty good.

 

Here it is:

 

 

[Jay 37,364]

Haven't seen episode 4 yet, will watch it tonight, but here's my thoughts on episode 3

 

Westworld 3x03 The Absence of Field

 

The cold open was SO much better this week, nice and tight unlike the sloppy long ones from the first 2 episodes.  I like that each episode this season is giving a major character a priority; 1 was Dolores, 2 was Maeve, and now 3 is Charlotte (and the Host in her body).  I suppose if 4 is William and 5 is Bernard, that will cover all 5 mains, and then 3 episodes left to wrap the season up!

 

Charlotte (the human) - I like that as she thought she was going to die, she found a way to leave a message for her son.    But I really like the revelation at the end, that she was working with Serac to get the Guest data out of the park.  This squares up nicely with her arc in season 1; I always thought it was weird that the Delos board send her to get it fearing Ford would do something to it all, it makes much more sense that she was acting outside the board for an entity she knew was doing a hostile takeover.  Along those lines...

 

Serac - This is a thing some shows or movie franchises do eventually, having a villain turn up who was behind everything the whole time, but you just never heard of him before.  More or less a retcon, but here, I think, they actually pulled it off pretty well.  They've made it quite plausible that he really was starting his takeover before the events of season 1, and has had his hands in a lot of what's been going on.  I do find it weird, though, that when Host-Hale showed up, he wasn't physically there, and she had to put on the glasses to see him.  Since the only other entity we've seen him interact with was a Host (Maeve in episode 2), I'm beginning ot wonder if he isn't a real person at all, but some sort of manifestation of Rehoboam...

 

Caleb - This guy clearly wasn't thinking straight when he went to visit his mom after leaning he was wanted.  He had to have known some people on the Rico app would probably be there waiting for him!  I am suspect that being in the military gave him a elevated implant and that's why they were able to control his heart rate; I bet you every human's implant has that capability and they just told the masses the commercial ones don't have that feature.  I like the bond him and Dolores are forming, but I doubt it will have a happy ending.  The reveal that Rehoboam has access to audio recordings that are supposed to be protected (IE the conversation with him and the waitress when he was a child) is a good one too.  And I love the questioning the show does with Rehoboam's algorithms;  IE, it won't give him a good job because it predicts he'll commit suicide in 10 years, but is it a self-fulfilling prophecy, IE, he commits suicide BECAUSE he can't get a good job?  

 

Whatever Host is controlling Charlotte's body - I like the relationship she has with Charlotte's son, and how he knows she's not really Charlotte.  The concept that Host/body mesh isn't working is fascinating, especially since we saw this last season with James Delos, how the pearl's they kept making from his memories would never accept the body after some amount of time (wasn't it something like 45 days was the longest it lasted?  I can't remember).  This is similar, but difference.  Watching her cut herself, and the extend of all the cutting, was pretty brutal, but Dolores fixing and comforting her was interesting.  Her saving her son from the pedophile and taking his dog was pretty cool.

 

As for who is controlling her body, I don't believe for a second it's Teddy; He was sent to The Sublime!  I think the two best possibilities are that it's a copy of William from data collecting from the hat, or it's a different version of Dolores, perhaps from before the Wyatt code was integrated with hers.  Both make a lot of sense.  A third possiblity is that it's Caleb after he has died, and all the Charlotte / Dolores scenes we're seeing are from a different timeline than the Dolores/Caleb scenes, or one of those two is even a simulation and not reality.

[dylanskie 104]

This season has felt really focused. That's one of the first words that came to mind.

 

I'm loving the synth statements of the "Myself" theme and Dolores' theme, too! Also, Tessa Thompson, in my opinion, is really shining this season.

[Edmilson 7,454]

I always liked William's theme. I hope, with the character returning to the show, Djawadi finds new ways to play with that theme.

[Arpy 4,145]

Is Serac *spoiler

Spoiler

Ford's brother?

 

In the flashback in episode 4, Serac reveals Paris was destroyed in some nuclear event when he was a child, and it shows him and another boy standing in a field.

 

 

[Jay 37,364]

You don't have to put speculation you came up with after watching the aired episodes in a spoiler tag

[Edmilson 7,454]

5 hours ago, Arpy said:

Is Serac *spoiler

  Hide contents

Ford's brother?

 

In the flashback in episode 4, Serac reveals Paris was destroyed in some nuclear event when he was a child, and it shows him and another boy standing in a field.

 

 

 

I thought about that as well, but it doesn't make sense within the show's timeline. I read on Reddit that Serac's childhood scene takes place in 2025, and the current season is set in 2058, which makes him (considering he was 10 during when Paris was blown up) about 43 years old. When Ford died, he was over 60 or 70, so he has to be older than Serac. I guess Ford was born on the late 1980s or early 1990s.

[Edmilson 7,454]

This last episode was pretty bad, wasn't it? Probably the worst in the history of the show.

 

It felt really weird, with all the voice overs and cuts, with a strange score (WTF is The Shining theme doing on that beach scene?) and a very awkward feeling in general. Caleb spent most of the ep really high, and I guess the filmmakers wanted us to feel that way too. Unfortunately, this made the episode seem just weird and fast. Scenes that should've been riveting (like society discovering files about themselves) just landed with a thud.

 

And I wasn't the only one who didn't care about the ep

 

 

Let's hope next week will be better.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I thought this episode was a mixed bag. There were good ideas in it, as always. Serac’s scenes were interesting. Caleb being high was a needless distraction and kinda cringy at points. I agree that everyone receiving their files could have packed a major emotional punch, but I don’t know that that’s what the writers wanted, especially if say, humanity were to go extinct by the end of the season.

[Arpy 4,145]

 

10 hours ago, Edmilson said:

This last episode was pretty bad, wasn't it? Probably the worst in the history of the show.

 

It felt really weird, with all the voice overs and cuts, with a strange score (WTF is The Shining theme doing on that beach scene?) and a very awkward feeling in general. Caleb spent most of the ep really high, and I guess the filmmakers wanted us to feel that way too. Unfortunately, this made the episode seem just weird and fast. Scenes that should've been riveting (like society discovering files about themselves) just landed with a thud.

 

And I wasn't the only one who didn't care about the ep

 

 

Let's hope next week will be better.

I don't know who Darren Frainch is, but it's great going through that twitter thread and reading the opinions of people who won't even bother to watch the episode, but will still trash it, another example of today's mock outrage culture.

 

Sometimes Westworld has its high notes and weaker episodes etc. but it has an uncanny way of sorting the informed viewer from the clearly clueless casual viewers who expect to be spoonfed everything.

 

Part of Westworld's charm has been its willingness to throw convention out the window and try different approaches to storytelling; this episode was another direction and the drugged Caleb was all an intentional framing device.

[Edmilson 7,454]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

I don't know who Darren Frainch is, but it's great going through that twitter thread and reading the opinions of people who won't even bother to watch the episode, but will still trash it, another example of today's mock outrage culture.

 

 

He is a critic for Entertainment Weekly, and one of the most annoying I've ever read. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Jesse must have had some of what he cooked.

 

Heh heh heh

 

 

 

I liked the car chase bit with the Blues Brothers music.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I've only just caught up with the latest two episodes. I find it interesting that the day after the reveal that Dolores put herself into multiple host bodies, Dilbert ran this arc:

https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-04-06

 

On 4/13/2020 at 4:10 AM, Edmilson said:

WTF is The Shining theme doing on that beach scene?

 

The "Shining theme"? It's the Dies irae, and I assume it was used for the last part of Caleb's trip because it's also the basis for the last movement of Berlioz Symphonie fantastique - which is a musical depiction of a series of drug induced hallucinations.

[Jay 37,364]

WestWorld officially renewed for season 4, Joy & Nolan want the show to go for six seasons total

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ya reckon that's a wig on Pinkman?

[Edmilson 7,454]

Next week's season finale is going to be amazing 

 

I loved every WW season finale so far, and I hope next week will be something special.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

That Delores vs Meave fight... that was the moment I was waiting for, seeing these two titans finally cross paths and duke it out in hand to hand combat. Only Godzilla and Kong will rival that fight this year.

[Edmilson 7,454]

It's sad to think that, after next Sunday, it'll be another 2 years without Westworld again  .

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Decent episode. I thought Solomon was pretty cool.

[Arpy 4,145]

Not feeling this season. I can't put my finger on why, just seems a bit all over the place. I liked Caleb's backstory last episode and William's newfound desire to destroy the hosts. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

True this season isn't as interesting or as well written as the first two.

 

Still high quality tele, but it's been a disappointment so far.

[Edmilson 7,454]

I loved the two previous Westworld season finales, but this one was by far the weakest. It had some decent action scenes, but it was all very predictable and silly. And what was that nonsense about

 

Spoiler

Dolores taking pity of mankind and trying to save it? 

 

The most intriguing thing about the ep was the post-credits scene.

Spoiler

Clearly, Charlores used the data Delos collected from the humans in the park to create host copies of them. I believe on the next season she'll use the new hosts to try to populate the world, which will be complete chaos after the destruction of Rehoboam.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Spoiler

So was that the end-end of Delores? Pity, she was such a fittie.

 

[Thor 7,504]

My summation of the whole shebang so far:

 

SEASON 1: Absolutely loved it! It had Anthony Hopkins in top form, entertaining play with western tropes, 'hints' at an expansive universe beyond the park that triggered our imagination, deep, philosophical issues neatly tucked into a fairly straightforward narrative rather than hitting you over the head with them, or explaining them through dialogue.

 

SEASON 2: I enjoyed it, as it was basically more of the same (and even samurai world, which was a cool expansion of the park idea). Yes, the different time lines thing was challenging to get a grasp of for a long period of time, but not enough to be alienating. Superb climax!

 

At this point, I was really excited for the idea to move outside the park, but I was not satisfied with the way they did it, in...

 

SEASON 3: I didn't care for it: 

 

a) I usually can't stand corporate intrigue, something that is far more complex to me than any timeline manipulation of season 2, or philosophical undercurrents of season 1. I went through the season without really properly understanding half of what was going on (yes, I know I'm stupid in this area).

 

b) the whole mise-en-scene and narrative momentum felt so 'mainstream'. Gone was most of the visionary qualities of the first two seasons. Every single scene was presented as a massively dramatic moment (complete with Djawadi's rising music, as if it were a soap opera heading for commercial breaks every 2 minutes). The only exception was "Genre", which I enjoyed for its sheer visual spectacle and ingenuity. In the midst of this, it also felt very unfocussed, and -- as someone else said above -- 'all over the place'.

 

c) I can appreciate the desire to make basically ALL the characters 'nuanced', so you'll keeping guessing who the bad guys and good guys are throughout, but if you do it with enough characters, over such a long time, you'll end up losing me in terms of emotional investment. I just don't care anymore, and I really didn't look forward to the next episode. I just watched them out of 'obligation'.

 

The series has been renewed for a fourth season. I never thought I would say this, but I hope they go back to the park(s) again. Perhaps the post-credit scene suggests this very fact. If not, I might just jump ship.

[Edmilson 7,454]

Yeah, season 1 was by far the best. A nuanced, thoughtful and intriguing exploration of an artificial mind being awakened. Season 2 wasn't that good, but it had some excellent moments. S3 also was good here and there, and the show is still a visual spectacle for the eyes, but Dolores' quest against mankind turned out to be "humans are as enslaved as robots, and I shall liberate both of our races by defeating an European Bond villain-type".

 

And I fear S4 will have more of that "good guys vs bad guys" feeling, with Maeve (the good host) and Caleb (the good human) vs Halores (leading an army of evil robots). What started as an intelligent look on the arrival of an artificial mind became just another Star Wars. 

[Arpy 4,145]

It was always a risk moving beyond the initial premise of seasons 1 and 2. 

 

 

As for the post-credits scenes, I think William will survive, and if he doesn't, what's stopping his host version from diverging from Charlores' new plans?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I dunno, can you survive having your throat slashed?

[Arpy 4,145]

Fuck, anything's possible in this world. What if that William was already a host?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Will they restore Delores Data-style?

[Thor 7,504]

I think the more interesting part of the post-credit scene was why Bernard was covered in that orange dust. Has he been sitting on that bed for years? Is it a massive jump-forward, to a time when the world has gone truly to shit?

[Arpy 4,145]

19 minutes ago, Thor said:

I think the more interesting part of the post-credit scene was why Bernard was covered in that orange dust. Has he been sitting on that bed for years? Is it a massive jump-forward, to a time when the world has gone truly to shit?

It seems so. Stubbs is probably long gone, rotting in the bathtub.

 

If Caleb has fought to liberate humanity, Charlores is probably the new enemy that will resist him, so perhaps season 4 will be a leap in time which sounds intriguing.

[Edmilson 7,454]

Keep in mind that S2's post credits scene also takes place in a distant future, with the host version of William in the Forge being tested by another host who looks like his daughter.

 

I believe that at some point we'll get a season that is set on the far future.

[Arpy 4,145]

The soundtrack album for Season 3 was released the other day with less music than the other two releases. I did notice throughout the season though, that it reuses cues from last season with the little new music there was this season.

 

What this album misses out on are three major themes - not all of Dolores' theme variations are presented, nor are Maeve's and Arnold's themes which are the strongest themes in the show! 

 

Not sure if there will be a physical release either.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

19 minutes ago, Arpy said:

 

 

Not sure if there will be a physical release either.

 

It better! I don't like buying computer files.

[artguy360 1,843]

The death of William was a little too abrupt for my tastes. Rushed endings never feel right. But it will be interesting to see how host William develops.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:47 AM, Arpy said:

Not feeling this season. I can't put my finger on why, just seems a bit all over the place.

 

I know what you mean. I didn't dislike the new season, but I felt surprisingly indifferent to it, and I think there are several reasons for that. There are too many characters for the show to handle in a way that makes their motivations clear, especially with the sometimes deliberately fragmented backstories and the fact that most actors from the previous seasons now play hosts, or even the same character - there's just not much left to relate to on the character side of things. And while the world building progresses, it's long lost the aura of realism that made S1's musings on cognitive science so intriguing. William's character doesn't do much this season, and with the relative loss of  his and total loss of Ford's character, the human element is gone. And while, given all this, the show has become hard enough to follow even with more straightforward storytelling, the puzzle aspect of S1's multiple timelines and S2's multiple "realities" is gone as well. As a result of all that, most twists and revelations don't have much impact on me - the show has become so broad in its storytelling and so vague in its (sometimes swappable) characters that pretty much every new element has something of a deus ex machina, even if it's carefully set up in advance (for which they mostly seem to be lacking the time these days).

 

On the positive side of things, the designs and overall style this season were first rate. Djawadi's score is still not terribly interesting, but the new textured synth style feels a more natural fit for the current setting than the earlier Western stuff. The best thing about the finale was Jeffrey Wright.

 

But what's the point of "ending" the season finale with the credits, only to add several minutes of hugely relevant stuff (including follow ups on character arcs that were major loose ends at the time of the credits - and I think some of those are still left)? Next time go full Monty Python and show the end credits in the first half of the episode to be done with it. That apparent flash-forward to far-future Bernard waking up was intriguing though.

[Arpy 4,145]

I like Bernard's conflicted character as he becomes more like Arnold, and Dolores' gift to him, however most of this season he was underutilized! 

[Edmilson 7,454]

Quote

Ed Harris’ The Man In Black Will ‘Kill Everyone’ In ‘Westworld’ Season 4

Showrunner Jonathan Nolan says he’s excited to see Ed Harris’ the Man in Black “kill everyone” in Westworld season four.

 

Although Westworld season three only recently finished, plans have already been made for the fourth season, with showrunner Jonathan Nolan teasing an interesting direction for Ed Harris’ William going forward. The ending of season three saw the Man in Black become one of the hosts under the Charlotte Hale Dolores’ control. Nolan explained in an interview with The Paley Center for Media that he loves the irony of William’s new direction since he’s become the thing he loved to control. The showrunner also said he can’t wait to see the star “kill everyone.”

“I’m a big believer in being guided by irony. [William] winds up becoming this thing [a host] that he’s controlled for so long. And on a visceral level, I just can’t wait to watch Ed kill everyone.”

 

https://heroichollywood.com/ed-harris-westworld-season-4-kill-everyone/

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Ed Harris killing *everyone* will be underscored by *every single theme* from the Star Wars saga.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

This season could have been GREAT...

Unfortunately, they decided that boring, predictable, ineptly staged and repetitive action scenes were what fans craved.

We don't. We want the visionary set design and futuristic cityscapes.

We want the intriguing philosophical constructs and provocative ideas.

These last two we got in season three.

You could edit out 90 percent of the ' action'  lose nothing of interest.

Season three was a near brilliant combo of MR. ROBOT and BLADE RUNNER. Too bad they had to throw in GENERIC DC/MCU dreck into the mix

Brm

 

Ps Djwadi did ANOTHER great job- but I agree there was way too much music

[Edmilson 7,454]

The critical consensus is that season 3 was a disappointment. I believe the season finale is the worst rated episode of the show.

 

I hope this serves as a wake up call to Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy, and the show returns to its more sci-fi roots with intriguing philosophical ideas. 

 

The show has the potential of being an intriguing study about an artificially created species coming to terms with their makers, without that whole generic super-hero movie action scenes.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

20 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

The critical consensus is that season 3 was a disappointment. I believe the season finale is the worst rated episode of the show.

 

I hope this serves as a wake up call to Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy, and the show returns to its more sci-fi roots with intriguing philosophical ideas. 

 

The show has the potential of being an intriguing study about an artificially created species coming to terms with their makers, without that whole generic super-hero movie action scenes.

It's also an intriguing speculation on a futuristic society.

Kind of an allegory of our times with a autocratic plutocracy running everything and the working class doing all the dirty work - think H.G. Wells THE TIME MACHINE et. al.

It's the combined story lines of humans.  A.I. and robotics that make the show watchable. But, three seasons in, the producers still haven't quite got the recipe perfected.

One thing has been consistent: the fantastic production values. I'm surprised HBO ordered up another season; must be costing them $$$$!

[Edmilson 7,454]

8 minutes ago, bruce marshall said:

One thing has been consistent: the fantastic production values. I'm surprised HBO ordered up another season; must be costing them $$$$!

 

This is true, at the very least season 3 looked great. HBO is spending a small fortune for each season. I wonder if they asked Nolan and Lisa Joy to tone down the action a bit, because the show certainly doesn't have the same level of popularity as Game of Thrones.

[Arpy 4,145]

Game of Thrones was overrated. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

They seemed to tone down on the tits, dicks, fannies and bumholes in Season 3.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

I know. I know😔😥😒

12 hours ago, Arpy said:

Game of Thrones was overrated. 

Underrated, if anything!

The critics of season 8 are way off base.