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Captain America: Civil War (SPOILERS)


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Iron Man v Captain America: Dusk Of The Avengers

 

While it continues the Winter Soldier storyline from the second Captain America film, it's more a sequel to Age Of Ultron, dealing with the fall out of the goings on in Sokovia. Both the political and personal ramifications.

 

Tony Stark is an important character in this, and it's Robert Downey Junior's most restrained performance of him. Tony looking visibly older now. With stuff weighing down on his soul.

The film does a decent job showing why the once maverick would support The Avengers being put under a UN mandate.

 

Steve Rogers disagrees, which forms the heart of the film. Some of the Avengers side with Steve, others with Stark. All of them are given a few scenes to shine. This again makes the film seem more like the third Avengers then the third Captain America.

 

Two new additions. First of all, Spider-man. Played by Tom Holland as a eager to please teenage kid, all to happy to help our Mr. Stark. Holland is actually quite good here. And the scene in his bedroom with Tony Stark is very funny. It also doesnt go unnoticed to Stark that aunt May is HOT! (Because Marisa Tomei is HOT!)

Spider-man's role in this film is basically an extended cameo. But he meshes very well with the rest when the action gets going.

 

The other new superhero is The Black Panther. Out for vengeance after his father was killed by The Winter Soldier (or so he believes)

Chadwick Boseman does a decent "generic African accent" and manages to give the character some depth in the small amount of screen time alloted to him. His role is far more vital to the film then Spider-man's

 

The big draw of the film is of course Earth Mightiest heroes duking it out. The big airport fight isnt actually the final third act battle. And despite the doom and gloom of the trailers much of it is actually done with a lot of comedy. (especially when Ant-Man becomes...well Giant-Man)

 

The final third act battle is more focused and personal, and for once doesnt involve a huge battle in the skies.

 

The story is actually rather thin. Which considering this film has a really huge cast probably isnt a bad idea. (Age Of Ultron tried to have a very complex story AND loads of characters and didnt quite work)

There's no super villain here for once. Actually the en tire film is about heroes fighting heroes. Orchestrated by a man's quest for vengeance after his family died during the events of Age Of Ultron. (Daniel Brühl as Zemo manages to cause more damage to The Avengers then demi-gods Loki and Ultron combined)

 

That might be the one gripe the film has. It's heroes against heroes. And the script never chooses a side. So Stark is justified in his beliefs, but to is Steve.

The big battle of the heroes (HA!) is very well executed and fun to watch. But you do see that everybody really liked everybody and they would rather all get along....

 

So it lacks the edge of BvS. Though I suspect many will prefer this film because it's more easily digestible. (even though they are essentially almost the same film)

The Russo's do an excellent job keeping the narrative clear despite the enormous amount of characters. The action scenes feel taut and well balanced. Visually there's a lot more of interest here then Age Of Ultron, in which Joss Whedon proved that at heart he's still a TV man.

 

So it's a definite improvement over the second Avengers film. But is it better then The Winter Soldier? I don't think so.

Again, the story is waver thin, and actually feels like it's a set up for the next Avengers rather then a full fledged Captain America adventure.

 

Hugh Jackman's score sounded more symphonic then his previous Marvel effort. But still indistinct. With no new themes noticed by me at all. Nor did I hear any quotations of any existing theme. It's competent, if totally non descript big budget Hollywood film music.

 

I like this film. It holds together better then it has any right to. I'm not sure this is the film they needed to make after the excellent Winter Soldier. But it's very personable.

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Well, it has to be the first Marvel film with no villain and no big gigantic battle at the end. And with a plot dilemma that cannot be resolved by an external threat. All characters have a viewpoint which I can understand and even relate to. Quite unlike that one other film which I won't name in this thread.

 

And no, it doesn't feel like an Avengers film. They all are in the film but most of them in extended cameo roles. I've watched all three Cap films together and it very much feels like a progression of the same story but with bigger ramification for everyone around main character.

 

Is it perfect? Not really. Tonally it is a bit all over the place and not as smoothly paced as TWS. But the film still has bigger balls than most of these things. And it actually makes me question the point of this MCU superhero stuff, given how bitter its observations are. Not sure where it should go from there. Having Thanos show up feels almost anticlimactic.

 

Karol

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3 hours ago, crocodile said:

All characters have a viewpoint which I can understand and even relate to. Quite unlike that one other film which I won't name in this thread.

 

Exactly! Everybody is nice. And they could have worked out their issues if they just had a long, hard talk about it. Marvel didn't dare to make either Stark or Steve Rogers be seriously in the wrong.

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Not sure where it should go from there. Having Thanos show up feels almost anticlimactic.

 

Obviously Thanos will be the big, common threat that brings everyone together again. Maybe even The Winter Soldier.

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Just watched some of the trailers. They really do make the film look more dramatic then it really is.

 

Rhodey doesn't die. He isn't even wounded by anyone from Team Rogers. It's friendly fire from The Vision, which was actually a bit lame.

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She's a beaut. Takes someone special to make that Oldboy remake worth sitting through to the end

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Watched it the second time. Enjoyed it again. It's not oerfect, but nuch better than most of these things. I like that the big villain plot ends up being a red herring st the end and that's mostly scaled down and personal. And that it manages to extend and enrich Joss Whedon's intentions that didn't play out as successfully in the last Avengers film.

 

Karol

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Yes, despite its huge cast it manages to be more focused then Age Of Ultron. 

 

I guess the Russo's are a safe quartet of hands for the Avengers films.

 

I wouldn't rate it over BvS though, which did a far better job establishing a genuine conflict between our heroes. 

3 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Are you that into them Marvel movies that you see the films multiple times in the theatre, crocs? :blink:

 

Don't you know?

Karol is the big Marvel/Nolan fan here! 

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Nah, BvS had the edge over this in terms of how "serious" the face-off was, but the motivations behind the rivalry was so murky and delusional, and the editing/writing so abysmal, that in the end it didn't matter - it was just horrible. Like having a scoop of luxury Belgian chocolate ice cream on a turd.

 

The confrontations in Civil War, like most things Marvel, are too "fun" for the audience to really feel something is at stake. The big airport fight felt like everyone was just playfully jostling and humoring each other. To that intent you could call it a failure, but the sequence was still pretty damn fun, unlike BvS. Like a McD cone, if you will. It's nothing too fancy, but you lick it happily anyway. The final confrontation was surprisingly dead serious for Marvel though, and you finally felt like the core of the Avengers was at risk. But then it just ended rather abruptly, sort of like a cliffhanger. 

 

Also maybe it's just me (as a non-comic reader), but I found it contrived that Captain America would be the one who rejects the accords and Iron Man the one who accepts it. Seems to me a more natural arc would have the roles switched. 

 

Not major faults though, I enjoyed this one. Some really good action scenes, pacing was excellent (especially the first half), some good (but throwaway) questions asked too. 

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Wasn't directing that particular observation to you - I meant it as someone could legitimately call the airport action scene a failure because it didn't feel like there was anything important at stake or that they were really duking it out. 

 

On the other hand, BvS is just terrible. The first 45 mins or so has some of the worst editing I've seen in a while - scenes just randomly stitched together with no ebb or flow. Maybe murky is a wrong choice of word, but the motivations behind Batman sparing with Superman were very unconvincing to me. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

Nolan, yes, but Marvel? And does he rewatch them to get a better and deeper understanding of them, Steef?

It is actually surprisingly thoughtful. A continuation of TWS but with no giant CGI battle at the end. And no villain!

 

Karol

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I wont discuss the BVS stuff

But I didnt feel that the battles werent serious enough

 

sure both sides had some comedy and antman and spiderman, but I was still invested

and the airport fight was the only one like that anyway

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Loved it!

 

One of the things I noticed in The Winter Soldier was when that nazi computer AI dude flashes a shot of Howard Stark with a red X over his face, and I wondered about Hydra taking him out in a hitjob. Obviously Steve noted this but never knew it was Bucky.

 

I was thrilled that this plot thread paid off in Civil War.

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Was Steve Rogers playing second fiddle in his own movie? 

 

Often it felt like Stark's journey was more the focal point of the film. His crumbled relationship with Pepper has made him bitter and depressed, a number of events influence him to make decisions he wouldn't normally, and the climax of the story revolves around his own personal, um, "demons".

 

And all Captain America really did was work tirelessly to defend Bucky. I didn't sense as much development from him as Stark. 

 

With this confusion in mind, this film should have been called "Avengers: Civil War". It's about the Avengers and their ideological division, rather than Cap's personal journey.  Or it could have gotten away with being called "Iron Man: Civil War".

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The kid saw it too and when I asked "Who dies?", he answered, "No one dies, but I wouldn't have minded if Captain America did." :blink: :blink::blink:

 

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Yet another superhero sequel? It's like being spammed by African cinema princes who just needed us to watch a small amount of superhero movies in order to free up the many more millions of them they had waiting to send to us. 

 

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Sequels can only be annoying if they're not any good.

 

And they are consistently solid films. So what's the problem?

 

Karol

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Don't you get sick of them? I reckon I've seen about 5 of the current spate we've been having this last five years, and I'm bored with the genre. 

 

Seen:

 

Thor 1

The Avengers 

Man of Steel 

Iron Man 1&2

Captain America 1

 

Never completed Rami's Spiderman trilogy and haven't bothered with the reboot. Cba with The Dark Knight Rises. Fantastic Four reboot? I'll pass. 

 

Quintus - highlighting the differences between "us" and "them" again

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That's not how the industry works any more. In the ye olde days you made a movie, and if it was successful then you made a sequel. These days entire saga's are meticulously planned out before the first film even starts shooting.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Someone needed to die to give the whole thing some bottom.

 

Some bottom?

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You guys obviously don't study the teachings of Harrison Ford!

 

It was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… I thought the best utility of the character would be for him to sacrifice himself to a high ideal and give a little bottom, a little gravitas to the enterprise, not that there wasn’t some already but I just wanted in on some part of it. That was at the third occasion of filming the original three.

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/m/new/Why-Harrison-Ford-Wanted-Han-Solo-Die-Return-Jedi-100887.html

 

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3 hours ago, Quintus said:

Don't you get sick of them? I reckon I've seen about 5 of the current spate we've been having this last five years, and I'm bored with the genre. 

 

Seen:

 

Thor 1

The Avengers 

Man of Steel 

Iron Man 1&2

Captain America 1

 

Never completed Rami's Spiderman trilogy and haven't bothered with the reboot. Cba with The Dark Knight Rises. Fantastic Four reboot? I'll pass. 

 

Quintus - highlighting the differences between "us" and "them" again

They are still more imaginative than that new Star Wars film that everybody loved. 

 

If you don't like the genre then nobody can change your mind. As far as blockbusters go these days, Marvel does the best job at the moment. No, their films don't have as much unique personality. But they know what they're doing and how to keep going strong. And even their missteps are hardly catastrophes.

 

And yeah, I'm sure it will burn out eventually. But if Civil War is any indication, it's not just yet.

 

As for Jackman, his "Civil War" theme is better than his Cap theme. I still can't quite find that one...

 

Karol

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sure there is some sameyness to a lot of Marvel movies (looking at you Antman)

but saying the Russo brother capmovies are exactly like Thor is stretching things

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