Now that we have LLL's "The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection," are the OS albums of both scores obsolete?

[King Mark 3,631]

I agree with Jay

 

I like better to have the c.d. mastered LaLaLand way even if I listen at home quiet

 

and I never throw out OST's...you never know when you might need one track for whatever reason. I still use the Hook OST Farewell to Neverland despite the expanded release and various boots because of a good reason I forget right now

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

To those complaining about quiet moments in CDs with wide dynamic range, if you're in a sound-proof room (or at least in a room that's relatively free of noise contamination), those quiet moments are completely audible and clear as day. And stop turning the music up and down. Instead, set the loudest bits to the highest volume you feel comfortable with and leave it at thay level. Then you won't have heart attacks when it suddenly peaks. This way, your ears will interact with the music in a way that's more satisfying.

 

And drum beats sound a great deal better with more dynamic range too.

[Datameister 2,050]

The trouble is that soundproof rooms aren't always available, and when listening via headphones, the peaks really shouldn't get too loud (to avoid hearing damage). That generally leaves the quieter passages just a little too quiet - unless, of course, you adjust the volume. Or compress the life out of it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Ah. I listen with big speakers. Not headphones.

[Wojo 2,453]

1 minute ago, Daniel Clamp said:

I listen with big speakers. Not headphones.

 

[Datameister 2,050]

2 hours ago, Daniel Clamp said:

Ah. I listen with big speakers. Not headphones.

 

Ah yup...I don't do much listening on speakers these days, but when I have in the past, I've touched the volume knob a lot less.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

7 minutes ago, Datameister said:

 

 I've touched the volume knob a lot less.

 

You'll go blind!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

2 hours ago, Daniel Clamp said:

To those complaining about quiet moments in CDs with wide dynamic range, if you're in a sound-proof room (or at least in a room that's relatively free of noise contamination), those quiet moments are completely audible and clear as day. And stop turning the music up and down. Instead, set the loudest bits to the highest volume you feel comfortable with and leave it at thay level. Then you won't have heart attacks when it suddenly peaks. This way, your ears will interact with the music in a way that's more satisfying.

 

And drum beats sound a great deal better with more dynamic range too.

 

No, I need to crank many Horner scores because the softer parts are way too soft. I've found that the best way to do it is to just memorize all the music, so I know exactly when to turn the volume up and down.

[Wojo 2,453]

Can't you just normalize your files when you rip the CDs? I remember cdex had that feature, to either boost the quiet, reduce the loud, or both. 

[Datameister 2,050]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

 

You'll go blind!

 

That's OK, the hair on my palms will help me detect and identify objects around me!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Wanker!

[Datameister 2,050]

One of the great travesties of being American is the fact that this insult has no direct equivalent!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I actually prefer the sound of JP in this set. The OST has this sound similar to Far and Away that has a tendency to annoy the crap out of me. The remaster makes it sound more like older Williams recordings. The mids finally shine and the brass is accentuated. It sounds more natural. The OST was a victim of digital tinkering.

[King Mark 3,631]

3 hours ago, petaQ said:

Can't you just normalize your files when you rip the CDs? I remember cdex had that feature, to either boost the quiet, reduce the loud, or both. 

 

I remember I had a program that did that, but for some reason when I changed computers I could not revert the changes anymore. so I stopped using it

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

6 hours ago, petaQ said:

Can't you just normalize your files when you rip the CDs? I remember cdex had that feature, to either boost the quiet, reduce the loud, or both. 

 

I don't rip my CDs. I just put them in the CD player and press play.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

15 hours ago, Datameister said:

One of the great travesties of being American is the fact that this insult has no direct equivalent!

 

Jerkoff?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

 

Jerkoff?

 

This!

[Datameister 2,050]

I don't hear it in regular use...and something is lost in translation!

[Josh500 1,615]

21 hours ago, Rose Dawson said:

I actually prefer the sound of JP in this set. The OST has this sound similar to Far and Away that has a tendency to annoy the crap out of me. The remaster makes it sound more like older Williams recordings. The mids finally shine and the brass is accentuated. It sounds more natural. The OST was a victim of digital tinkering.

Now I agree with you on this!

 

JP sounds slightly muffled, uneven. Don't know how better to express it, but whatever it is, it's not an issue on this new set anymore. 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What? Jurassic Park always sounded very bright.

[Josh500 1,615]

No, there was something slightly off with it. Some tracks are lacking.

 

It's not a big deal, mind you, but it is noticeable, especially when compared with the new LLL set.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Bad? What tracks?

[Josh500 1,615]

Bad is overstating it. I already edited it.

 

See Rose's post and mine above.

 

Mainly, it's a sound clarity issue. I found it most noticeable in Incident and Journey.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's that "silky" sound as @Alexcremers calls it.

[Jay 37,417]

In the early 90s digital sound manipulation and CD mastering was still being perfected.  That's why there's such a wide range of quality across all forms of music pressed to CD around that time.  Sometime around the mid 2000s it all got pretty evenly figured out and perfected across the board and now all CDs that come generally sound great

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Except for Attack of the Clones.

[Jay 37,417]

That wasn't the mid 2000s yet!

I still don't understand why that OST is so hissy.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Attack Of The Clones wasn't released on CD here. Technically anyway.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

That wasn't the mid 2000s yet!

I still don't understand why that OST is so hissy.

 

It's muddy as all hell. Murphy really screwed that one up, like the A.I. album.

[Josh500 1,615]

Sound quality. 

 

The bad ones: A.I., Minority Report, Attack of the Clones, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter 1 and 2...

 

The good ones: Harry Potter 3, The Terminal, JFK, Tintin, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Revenge of the Sith...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

That wasn't the mid 2000s yet!

I still don't understand why that OST is so hissy.

 

Wasn't there some early leak (or something like that) that didn't have all the hiss?

[Jay 37,417]

Yea the mp3s that leaked before the OST was in stores don't sound as hissy

[Datameister 2,050]

4 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Sound quality. 

 

The bad ones: A.I., Minority Report, Attack of the Clones, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter 1 and 2...

 

The good ones: Harry Potter 3, The Terminal, JFK, Tintin, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Revenge of the Sith...

 

This is baffling to me. Tintin and KOTCS sound rather awful to me, while the first two Potters and JP and AOTC sound incredible. ROTS sounds good, but not quite as good as its two predecessors (mainly due to the less natural way the percussion is mixed).

 

It's like we're listening to completely different albums.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

You're wrong. How can you even say that?

[artguy360 1,844]

4 hours ago, Josh500 said:

Sound quality. 

 

The bad ones: A.I., Minority Report, Attack of the Clones, Jurassic Park, Harry Potter 1 and 2...

 

The good ones: Harry Potter 3, The Terminal, JFK, Tintin, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Revenge of the Sith...

HP 1 and 2 have bad sound quality? As in the mix and sound clarity? Those are 2 of JW's best recorded scores imo. HP1 and HP2 have amazing clarity without anything sounding overdubbed and still wet without too much ambient sound. The others I don't have much of an opinion on though ROTS has some awful overdubbing on various tracks plus some seriously awful editing of the music that stands out.

[Josh500 1,615]

32 minutes ago, Datameister said:

It's like we're listening to completely different albums.

 

You also claim that the original JP sounds better than the LLL version, which is ridiculous.

 

No. We're listening to the same albums with different ears. 

 

4 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

HP 1 and 2 have bad sound quality? As in the mix and sound clarity? Those are 2 of JW's best recorded scores imo. HP1 and HP2 have amazing clarity without anything sounding overdubbed and still wet without too much ambient sound. 

 

Well,I'm not saying they sound horrible. But Azkaban sounds a lot better than HP 1 and 2. So 1 and 2 could have been better, imo, especially since they were recorded by the LSO (or its members).

 

Oh, it just occurred to me, another score that sounds fantastic is Home Alone. Compare the sound quality of Home Alone with Harry Potter 1 and 2. There's no question that Home Alone sounds a lot better. 

[artguy360 1,844]

7 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

Well,I'm not saying they sound horrible. But Azkaban sounds a lot better than HP 1 and 2. So 1 and 2 could have been better, imo, especially since they were recorded by the LSO (or its members).

The Azkaban score is fantastic but the OST doesn't sound noticeably better than the HP 1 and 2 OSTs to my ears. IIRC the HP3 OST is wetter, a bit more space and distance in the recording and different textures because of the nature of the orchestration but recording-wise nothing about it stands out. The textures are what make that recording unique, the reediness of Window to the Past, the heavy use of percussion in places (though I think they are a bit over-emphasized in the mix making for a slightly un-natural sound), the medieval quality of a lot of the brass, the jazzy orchestration of the bus cue, etc. But in terms of the mix, HP2 takes the cake. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

How does POA sound any better than PS and COS? What are you hearing that the rest of us aren't?

[crumbs 14,348]

A.I. and AOTC were two of the first digital recordings that Murphy did for Williams -- if not the first two entirely? Could explain why they sound so muddy and hissy at times. 

 

Interesting that the pre-release leaked MP3s for AOTC didn't have the hiss though, indicating this was an OST mastering problem more than a recording one.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Maybe the MP3 compression eliminated high frequency noise?

[Josh500 1,615]

12 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

The Azkaban score is fantastic but the OST doesn't sound noticeably better than the HP 1 and 2 OSTs to my ears. IIRC the HP3 OST is wetter, a bit more space and distance in the recording and different textures because of the nature of the orchestration but recording-wise nothing about it stands out. The textures are what make that recording unique, the reediness of Window to the Past, the heavy use of percussion in places (though I think they are a bit over-emphasized in the mix making for a slightly un-natural sound), the medieval quality of a lot of the brass, the jazzy orchestration of the bus cue, etc. But in terms of the mix, HP2 takes the cake. 

 

I think we just have a different understanding of what equals good sound quality when it comes to orchestral music. 

 

I like being able to hear every instrument (or sections of the orchestra) separately and clearly, without any slight ambient sound or hiss, which I associate with live concert recordings.

 

HP2 is certainly better than HP1, but HP3 tops both. Just listen to "Aunt Marge's Waltz," "Double Trouble," "Quidditch Third Year," and "Mischief Managed!" (the beginning). The recording is spectacularly good. Hell, even "Monster Books."

 

Nothing on HP1 and 2 sounds as good as these....

8 minutes ago, crumbs said:

A.I. and AOTC were two of the first digital recordings that Murphy did for Williams -- if not the first two entirely? Could explain why they sound so muddy and hissy at times. 

 

I agree.

 

Muddy and slightly hissy. Good way of putting it!

[crumbs 14,348]

5 minutes ago, Daniel Clamp said:

Maybe the MP3 compression eliminated high frequency noise?

 

Pretty likely explanation. If you listen to soundtrack clips from AOTC on YouTube, whatever compression they use eliminates the hiss.

[artguy360 1,844]

2 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

I think we just have a different understanding of what equals good sound quality when it comes to orchestral music. 

 

I like being able to hear every instrument separately and clearly, without any slight ambient sound or hiss, which I associate with live concert recordings.

 

HP2 is certainly better than HP1, but HP3 tops both. Just listen to "Aunt Marge's Waltz," "Double Trouble," "Quidditch Third Year," and "Mischief Managed!" (the beginning). The recording is spectacularly good. Hell, even "Monster Books."

 

Nothing on HP1 and 2 sounds as good as these....

I'm doing a quick listen across all 3 OSTs right now and I think what you are hearing isn't really a matter of the sound quality or mix but rather the orchestration. HP3 features diverse orchestrations that are often sparser and more varied than the consistently full orchestral sound of HP 1 and 2. Many cues like Aunt Marge's Waltz, Double Trouble, and others are more of an orchestral ensemble rather than the full sound of a 100 piece orchestra. That certainly makes the different voicings clearer but more due to the nature of the score itself than the sound mix. 

[Josh500 1,615]

11 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I'm doing a quick listen across all 3 OSTs right now and I think what you are hearing isn't really a matter of the sound quality or mix but rather the orchestration. HP3 features diverse orchestrations that are often sparser and more varied than the consistently full orchestral sound of HP 1 and 2. Many cues like Aunt Marge's Waltz, Double Trouble, and others are more of an orchestral ensemble rather than the full sound of a 100 piece orchestra. That certainly makes the different voicings clearer but more due to the nature of the score itself than the sound mix. 

 

Compare Hedwig's Theme with Mischief Managed! (the beginning). 

 

These tracks have a similar style of orchestration, I think, HT also being rather sparsely orchestrated until the very end.

 

Maybe it's not a question of sound quality, but a question of your personal preference of how a piece should be recorded.... Because I certainly prefer MM (in terms of sound, and not composition)!

[artguy360 1,844]

5 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

Compare Hedwig's Theme with Mischief Managed! (the beginning). 

 

These tracks have a similar style of orchestration, I think, HT also being rather sparsely orchestrated until the very end.

 

Maybe it's not a question of sound quality, but a question of your personal preference of how a piece should be recorded.... Because I certainly prefer MM (in terms of how sound, and not composition)!

I hear it more as different textures. The HP3 score tends to have a lot of solos and moments where 1 instrument plays very clearly above a bed of orchestral backing, but for me that's down to orchestration and the desired colors. Listening to MM and Hedwig's Theme, the two are so different in terms of orchestration but when both use the full orchestra they sound more or less mixed the same. The string section in particular sound nearly identical to me.

[Josh500 1,615]

17 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

I hear it more as different textures. The HP3 score tends to have a lot of solos and moments where 1 instrument plays very clearly above a bed of orchestral backing, but for me that's down to orchestration and the desired colors. Listening to MM and Hedwig's Theme, the two are so different in terms of orchestration but when both use the full orchestra they sound more or less mixed the same. The string section in particular sound nearly identical to me.

 

No, it's not that (or not just that).

 

OK, last example: Buckbeak's Flight.

 

I mean, how much fuller can an orchestra get? It's got strings, brass, and woodwinds playing simultaneously, along with harps, glockenspiel, and various percussion instruments. And here, you can hear every section of the orchestra as clearly as they were all playing right in front of you. There's no muddiness, no muffledness, no distance and no hiss. Every section of the orchestra is as clear as a bell.

 

In the case of Hedwig's Theme, it's not so crystal clear (again, it's not horrible, but it's just not as good as BF).

 

I don't know what else to tell ya. Let's agree to disagree. 

[artguy360 1,844]

15 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

No, it's not that (or not just that).

 

OK, last example: Buckbeak's Flight.

 

I mean, how much fuller can an orchestra get? It's got strings, brass, and woodwinds playing simultaneously, along with harps, glockenspiel, and various percussion instruments. And here, you can hear every section of the orchestra as clearly as they were all playing right in front of you. There's no muddiness, no muffledness, no distance and no hiss. Every section of the orchestra is as clear as a bell.

 

In the case of Hedwig's Theme, it's not so crystal clear (again, it's not horrible, but it's just not as good as BF).

 

I don't know what else to tell ya. Let's agree to disagree. 

I see what you're saying, I'm just not hearing a difference. Can you listen to Dobby the House Elf from HP2 and really tell me you can't hear all the different voicings? The clarity of the recording equals anything in HP3 imo.

[Datameister 2,050]

That's interesting that you want to hear every instrument distinctly, with no distance between "you" (AKA the mic) and them, and no blending of the timbres. That's definitely not what I look for in most music. I like to feel as though I'm sitting near the front of the audience in a voluminous concert hall, with the different instruments achieving a vibrant, blended sound that trails off a bit as it reverberates. (I fully realize and appreciate that in most score recordings, any such reverb is going to be artificial.)

 

This could explain some of our differences. KOTCS and Tintin are certainly drier than the Potter albums, and ROTS's percussion is much "closer" than in the other prequel scores. (I should think your gold standard would be the ANH SE, though - that's about as dry and close-miced as you'll find in a Williams recording.)

 

(As for hiss, it doesn't really move the needle for me at AOTC-like levels. Heavier hiss like you might hear on some old, poorly-preserved scores is more distracting to me.)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He probably likes hearing every instrument and every note at the same consistent volume too. Loud, loud and more loud.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I want everything to sound like Star Trek V or Masters of the Universe.