Joker (Hildur Guðnadóttir)

[Arpy 4,159]

Finally saw it last night. 

 

One thing I was drawn to was the push and pull between Phoenix's character being the Joker we know from the comics and other films, and just a genuine character study of a deranged psychopath. In other words I would've been completely fine had this not been 'The Joker' from DC.

 

Yet the film plays to the strength of weaving in certain references from that universe which build the world up around Fleck that this is indeed The Joker, and we are in Gotham and it doesn't push it too far either to become cheesy.

 

Phoenix's performance is sublime, just amazing. I think I might prefer his Joker over Heath Ledger's version, but acknowledging, the Joker in TDK was the fully-formed Joker so to speak. My brother commented that he would love to see Phoenix's Joker later on, once he has assumed the role and is off wreaking havoc, but I think seeing him here is enough, that we can fill in that in our heads without needing mindless sequel. However, seeing Phoenix's performance again would be something and hopefully they don't waste him.

 

The score worked well with the film, but like @Disco Stu 's observations, I was longing for the growling woodwinds and seedy brass of the score for Taxi Driver, which became a character in its own right in that film. In Joker, I felt as if it was accompanying individual moments without creating a narrative. Though, I wonder if a score at all would've helped in the first place - perhaps just songs?

[John Dutton 7,380]

At least Joaquin was a clown and laughed, unlike Heath.

[Code 000. Destruct. 0. 4,260]

He had great laughs!

 

 

[gkgyver 1,647]

Thor's endorsement of the score, "interesting rhythms", "broad dark cello" and "use of existing songs" is all I need to know to avoid it.

[Arpy 4,159]

'Rock n Roll Part 2' was great for the

Spoiler

Joker reveal towards the end

 

[John Dutton 7,380]

1 hour ago, Dixon Hill said:

He had great laughs!

 

 

 

He didn't even fall into acid, kill Bruce Wayne's parents or sleep with his boss's hot blonde significantly younger girlfriend.

[The Train Station 8,680]

You can take that off now, I think.

[Thor 8,358]

Listened to the album a couple of times already. It's very good; holds up much better on album than I had expected.

[The Train Station 8,680]

Any good rhythms and beats?

[Thor 8,358]

Not beats, but some rhytmical figures here and there, yes.

[Disco Stu 15,501]

Funny how Joker has almost exactly the same opening weekend gross as Justice League, but the former is considered a great success and the latter a monumental failure.  Everything’s relative!

[Ii2 210]

I won't be seeing the movie.  I did see the trailer though.

I can get where people are coming from when they want to restrict Joker.  Still, when compared to other action-drama films today, there is not much difference.  In fact, looking closely, you will find some action movies nowadays surpass Joker in the amount of violence they put onscreen.  That being said, most audiences can handle the movie and unless they are suffering with a psychological problem,  I don't see how this movie among all other action-dramas out there would inspire mass-shootings or other forms of violence.  This being said, Joker should be avoided by people who are psychologically challenged.  They might relate to the character of the Joker, and since the movie somewhat celebrates the Joker, they might see violence as an opportunity to lift themselves up.

 

[The Train Station 8,680]

3 hours ago, Disco Stu said:

Funny how Joker has almost exactly the same opening weekend gross as Justice League, but the former is considered a great success and the latter a monumental failure.  Everything’s relative!

 

Relative to budget of course!

[Disco Stu 15,501]

Maybe October will be the month every year that sees an edgy anti-superhero film.  Venom in 2018, Joker in 2019.

[The Train Station 8,680]

Funny you say that, I was thinking of Joker '19 while watching Venom...

[John Dutton 7,380]

Venom was a horrible POS with a terrible performance by Shinzon.

[The Train Station 8,680]

It felt so quaint and restrained, like it wasn't relying so much on all this "world-building" nonsense.

[John Dutton 7,380]

Felt like it was on the shelf since the early 2000s and they decided to release it now.

[The Train Station 8,680]

Even some of the computer effects had a charming early 2000s quality to them.

[Arpy 4,159]

Venom is what you get when a corporation wants a quick comic book film and they just slap it together without any care in the world.

3 hours ago, Ii2 said:

I won't be seeing the movie.  I did see the trailer though.

I can get where people are coming from when they want to restrict Joker.  Still, when compared to other action-drama films today, there is not much difference.  In fact, looking closely, you will find some action movies nowadays surpass Joker in the amount of violence they put onscreen.  That being said, most audiences can handle the movie and unless they are suffering with a psychological problem,  I don't see how this movie among all other action-dramas out there would inspire mass-shootings or other forms of violence.  This being said, Joker should be avoided by people who are psychologically challenged.  They might relate to the character of the Joker, and since the movie somewhat celebrates the Joker, they might see violence as an opportunity to lift themselves up.

 

I don't get it, you're warning people away from the film for what it contains even though you haven't seen it???

 

Why don't you just watch the film and then make that judgement, because it sounds like the same old 'violent movies/games/media is responsible for violent people'. It's also foolish to judge a film by its trailer, when 90% of the time it's edited in a way to sell the movie one way or another without accurately representing the actual content of the film.

 

As it stands this film really isn't that violent.

[The Train Station 8,680]

1 minute ago, Arpy said:

Venom is what you get when a corporation wants a quick comic book film and they just slap it together without any care in the world.

 

To me Venom just felt more like a nice throwback to an earlier era when it was less about plotty universe-building crap and more about telling a reasonably effective self-contained story. Bumblebee seemed to have similar goals. Whatever the bureaucratic studio intentions behind Venom, at least it didn't bore me with non-stop visual bedazzlement like Aquaman or Black Panther. A return to smaller scale stories is welcome in this genre.

[Arpy 4,159]

We can agree on Aquaman and Black Panther. Thinking back, Aquaman looks like a Robert Rodriguez film, and somehow I think he would've found a way to inject that film with some wacky cringe.

 

Bumblebee felt like a safe film, and that's no surprise once they brought on Travis Knight, who's done a few kids films before in animation, and it felt breezy and nonchalant which was a nice reprieve from all the sequel-inducing Marvel stuff.

[Ii2 210]

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

 

I don't get it, you're warning people away from the film for what it contains even though you haven't seen it???

I'm not exactly warning everyone not to watch the film.  I'm saying that I get the way that Joker has been restricted from certain theaters.  Still, maybe you're right.  A trailer does keep some of the core of the film away.  But, I haven't only watched the trailer.  I read some articles on the film as well. In Joker's trailer (at least the one I watched), I don't remember one instance where someone actually dies.  

 

1 hour ago, Arpy said:

 

As it stands this film really isn't that violent.

Yes, I wrote that in my previous post.  At least no more violent that the new Terminator and Rambo movies released in the last few years.

[Arpy 4,159]

Not even, it has five deaths and the most gruesome scenes are very short. 

 

I get the sense many critics targeting the film for its violence are actually aiming at the film's suggestions of violence, or call to violence that isn't there at all. The film makes you think about the character and the world he is situated within and presents this depressing story of mental illness, betrayal and rejection (from society and people in general) and doesn't say anything more than that. It doesn't humanise the villain, it shows us the story behind it and that's that.

 

It's what I find most interesting about the whole controversy that the people detesting the film are projecting far more onto it than the film projects back. 

[The Train Station 8,680]

Because many weirdos out there regard the Joker as a realistic and relatable freak they can connect with, or something.

[Arpy 4,159]

Like the weirdos who went overboard with harassing actresses because they supposedly ruined their favourite film franchise?

 

It's like some detachment from the fact that films and games are fiction, dealing with fictional characters and scenarios.

[The Train Station 8,680]

Is Joker an incel in this movie?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Very relatable.

[Arpy 4,159]

3 hours ago, Thekthithm said:

Is Joker an incel in this movie?

A proto-incel?

[John Dutton 7,380]

It has several scenes of graphic violence. The majority of the movie is Joaquin Phoenix laughing, dancing and smoking, however.

[Edmilson 8,928]

Look at the bright side of Joker: it may incentivate young comic book movie fans to look after the cinema classics that inspired the movie, like Taxi Driver and King of Comedy.

 

According to Box Office Mojo, 66% of the opening weekend crowd of Joker was less then 35, people who weren't even born when Taxi Driver was released. Most of this people watch everything that involves Marvel and DC, so why not use Joker to make this people come look after the classics? It's not unlike when Star Wars was returning to the theaters, and made a lot of young people watch at least the original trilogy. 

[John Dutton 7,380]

I saw Taxi Driver on TV years ago and thought it was alright. The blonde was cute but I don't know why she got so upset when he took her to a porno. Women!

[Ii2 210]

22 hours ago, Arpy said:

Not even, it has five deaths and the most gruesome scenes are very short. 

 

I get the sense many critics targeting the film for its violence are actually aiming at the film's suggestions of violence, or call to violence that isn't there at all. The film makes you think about the character and the world he is situated within and presents this depressing story of mental illness, betrayal and rejection (from society and people in general) and doesn't say anything more than that. It doesn't humanise the villain, it shows us the story behind it and that's that.

 

It's what I find most interesting about the whole controversy that the people detesting the film are projecting far more onto it than the film projects back. 

I must say I agree with this.  There is food for thought in the film and the way it presents the character and his dilemma.  And, in the end it is the audience who has the last word.  They are the ones that should decide whether they will watch the film or not.  Of course, it doesn't hurt to put a little warning out there, but maybe it was a bit blown up this time.

 

21 hours ago, Thekthithm said:

Because many weirdos out there regard the Joker as a realistic and relatable freak they can connect with, or something.

And that will include many fans of all Batman films and some comic-book readers.  But, as I mentioned, they are not the ones who will commit violence just by watching the film.

 

Anyways, I might go see the movie in a few days.  Maybe I'll post a review in this thread.

[The Train Station 8,680]

So Joker made the same dollar amount on OW as Godzilla 2014. And yet KOTM limped to a piddly $47 million??

[Arpy 4,159]

One's about a depressed green monster, the other one is about a giant depresssed green monster.

[John Dutton 7,380]

One is also relatively low budget. The other is...not. The people have spoken. They don't want big special effects movies. They want artsy fartsy movies about weirdos who laugh, dance and smoke in every scene.

[The Train Station 8,680]

Is Batman in this movie?

[Edmilson 8,928]

45 minutes ago, Thekthithm said:

So Joker made the same dollar amount on OW as Godzilla 2014. And yet KOTM limped for a piddly $47 million??

 

Many recent sequels that premiered 5 or 6 years after the first one bombed at the box office. This happened not only with King of the Monsters, but also with Lego Movie 2 and Pacific Rim Uprising. 

 

On the first time, 5 years ago, people were curious and those movies generated hype. But their curiosity lasted for only one movie, they didn't wanted a franchise.

 

On the other hand, Godzilla's opening weekend box office adjusted for inflation is about US$ 100.7 millions, so more people went to see the giant lizard than the crazy clown on their respective openings.

[John Dutton 7,380]

 

5 minutes ago, Thekthithm said:

Is Batman in this movie?

 

No!

[The Train Station 8,680]

So this Joker movie is from the guy who gave us Road Trip, a movie I despised as a teenager because everyone else in my rough-as-guts high school propped it up as the movie that "spoke to them" as a generation. Yeesh, I think I might pass on this.

[John Dutton 7,380]

It's not as great as some people are making it out to be but it stands out from the standard crappy DC Universe movies. It's more like a weird arthouse movie.

[Edmilson 8,928]

This movie has more controversy to itself than Thanos has Infinity Stones. The media is loving it!

 

https://www.indiewire.com/2019/10/joker-convicted-pedophile-gary-glitter-royalties-song-1202179515/

[The Train Station 8,680]

I don't like the Joker's make-up in this. Looks more like some generic clown instead.

[Edmilson 8,928]

30 minutes ago, Thekthithm said:

a movie I despised as a teenager because everyone else in my rough-as-guts high school propped it up as the movie that "spoke to them" as a generation.

 

When I was in high school, the kids were obsessed with Ashton Kutcher's The Butterfly Effect. They said it was the deepest and most complex movie they have ever seen. So, I rented the movie to see if it was any good and I thought it was quite shitty. Haven't rewatched it since then.

[The Train Station 8,680]

It's just something about those Tom Green stoner comedies from that era that rubs me the wrong way. They don't seem to make them like that anymore.

[John Dutton 7,380]

1 hour ago, Thekthithm said:

I don't like the Joker's make-up in this. Looks more like some generic clown instead.

 

Why does The Joker even wear makeup in the modern movies? He's supposed to fall into acid and be discolored. Is that not realistic enough?

[The Train Station 8,680]

Daddy's gonna do some art, darling. Hehehehehe!

[John Dutton 7,380]

Jaaack. You said I could watch you improve the paintings.

[Arpy 4,159]

Ledger's Joker has the scars on his face, Phoenix's Joker is hinted at having similar, after all, his face was smashed into the back of the grated cop car shield. There's something unsettling about clown makeup which I think they play to quite well in this film. Even when stripped back to just the white, it's Phoenix's eyes that stand out which looks menacing.

[The Train Station 8,680]