Twin Films/Twin Scores

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Apparently it's a thing... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_films, although some are a bit of a stretch or are just similar genre films rather than being rather more specifically similar in subject.  Thought it might be fun to compare and contrast the scores, especially when the films are virtually identical in topic (i.e. Robin Hood or Bugs/Antz, asteroid impacts...). Looks like it's been going on a while but appear most notably in the 90s, so a few that leapt out to me:

 

Robin Hood (Geoffrey Burgon) & Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (Michael Kamen) - As I've noted elsewhere, I find Kamen's score just a little bit disconnected at times (especially in its full form), great though the material is. Burgon's is a much more low key effort, as befits the interpretation) but most enjoyable.

 

1492: Conquest of Paradise (Vangelis) & Christopher Columbus: The Discovery (Cliff Eidelman) - Probably not much to say on the Vangelis, his Conquest of Paradise choral theme turns up all over and probably counts as a breakout hit, even if it's not reached the same level of recognition as Chariots of Fire. Cliff Eidelman's is considerably more traditional orchestral effort, albeit mixed with some quasi-historically appropriate choral writing.

 

Tombstone (Bruce Broughton) & Wyatt Earp (JNH) - Bit of a tough call, both represent each composer at or close to the top of their game but I'd have to go with Bruce Broughton as that's possibly his best score (close run thing with Silverado, but Tombstone has greater depth and variety)... I'm sure some would argue that Wyatt Earp is JNH's best score (it's certainly up there), but Tombstone still wins it for me.

 

Terminal Velocity (Joel McNeely) & Drop Zone (Hans Zimmer) - I'll never forget one of the film music review books saying how Terminal Velocity has times that sound like John Williams, but that at various points it breaks out into electric guitar and "John Williams never did anything like that!". This was pre-Attack of the Clones. But I take their point. It's quite a mash up, but certainly from the time when Joel McNeely got a fair number of mainstream assignments even he did rely on JW too heavily (Iron Will most notably). I mean, the end credits sound a bit like JFK of all things... surprisingly soulful. Drop Zone on the other hand is a prototypical 90s Zimmer score, power anthems and electric guitars all over. Actually really enjoyable cheese fest.

 

OK... think that'll do for now...

 

[Jay 37,368]

In regards to scores only, nothing about the movies themselves

 

Air Force One > Executive Decision

Volcano > Dante's Peak

Armageddon > Deep Impact

Saving Private Ryan > The Thin Red Line

The Matrix > Dark City

Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SPECTRE

 

I think those are the only ones where I had heard both twin film's scores outside of the films themselves (if I even saw both films at all)

 

In terms of the films themselves, many of these I haven't seen in so long, I don't feel qualified to rank against each other until I revisit them

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

Oblivion > After Earth

Octopussy > Never Say Never Again

The Shining >>>>> The Amityville Horror (although I don't know if there is really something to compare here)

Dunkirk > Darkest Hour

[Edmilson 7,466]

Raiders of the Lost Ark (Williams) > King Solomon's Mines (Goldsmith)

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Raiders of the Lost Ark (Williams) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> King Solomon's Mines (Goldsmith)

corrected

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

The Legend of Hercules 2014 > Hercules 2014

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Raiders of the Lost Ark (Williams) > King Solomon's Mines (Goldsmith)

Agreed, although I think that's more of a shameless cash-in a year or two later rather than two very similar films that happened to open the same year.

 

1 hour ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

Oblivion > After Earth

Octopussy > Never Say Never Again

The Shining >>>>> The Amityville Horror (although I don't know if there is really something to compare here)

Dunkirk > Darkest Hour

Interesting, I watched Darkest Hour earlier in the week and really enjoyed it. Probably found Dunkirk to be the better film but musically I preferred Darkest Hour (although it was a touch overwrought at times).

1 hour ago, Jay said:

In regards to scores only, nothing about the movies themselves

 

Air Force One > Executive Decision

Volcano > Dante's Peak

Armageddon > Deep Impact

Saving Private Ryan > The Thin Red Line

The Matrix > Dark City

Mission Impossible: Rogue Nation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SPECTRE

 

I think those are the only ones where I had heard both twin film's scores outside of the films themselves (if I even saw both films at all)

 

In terms of the films themselves, many of these I haven't seen in so long, I don't feel qualified to rank against each other until I revisit them

Definitely agree on AFO/Executive Decision. Not sure I loved either of Volcano or Dante's Peak. Silvestri's March of the Lava is pretty great though. I remember seeing Armageddon in the cinema and my brain almost shutting down in the last half hour with the sensory overload (mostly sound wise). I will have to dig the score out again. Deep Impact is one of those slightly overlong Horner 90s efforts, but the finale cue is utterly terrific and makes it worth the wait getting through the rest. The Wedding is also rather lovely as I recall. Funnily enough I always thought Saving Private Ryan was too warm for the bleakness of the film; it feels like it's trying to offset the brutality of war too much. In the list of "what if" assignments, I'd have loved to see what Jerry could have done with it. Guess on that basis, I would probably have to go for The Thin Red Line which is one of my favourite Zimmer scores. Not much needs to be said on the Matrix, but I've always loved Trevor Jones' Dark City. So atmospheric and the action writing is almost as incredible as Davis'. Have to agree on Spectre/Rogue Nation. None of Thomas Newman's Bond scores have done much for me, but Rogue Nation is super.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

SPEED > BLOWN AWAY

 

AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON > THE HOWLING

[Thor 7,508]

HOME ALONE > DENNIS THE MENACE (yes, I know they are a few years apart).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

LEVIATHAN > DEEP STAR SIX > THE ABYSS

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Mission to Mars (Ennio Morricone) & Red Planet (Graeme Revell) - Think it would be fair to say that Morricone's Mission to Mars is very much a love it or hate it scores, but I absolutely love it (at least as a standalone experience). From the haunting opening track (think it's actually the end credits, but unlike The Untouchables, works well as an opener) A Heart Beats in Space to the ecstasy of Where?, it functions as almost a standalone concert work, quite apart from the film it was written for. Revell's Red Planet can't really compete, but more a more enjoyable work than I expected (only a handful of Revell scores that I like to any great extent, this being one of them). Plus, who can resist a bright red (and essentially irreplaceable) CD case?!

[Jay 37,368]

I like Jones' score to Dark City a lot, but Davis' Matrix score is legendary

 

I'm not a huge fan of either Volcano or Dante's Peak but I had listened to both on album.  Silvestri's had some memorable bits while Dante's Peak was completely forgettable

[Thor 7,508]

19 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Revell's Red Planet can't really compete, but more a more enjoyable work than I expected (only a handful of Revell scores that I like to any great extent, this being one of them). Plus, who can resist a bright red (and essentially irreplaceable) CD case?!

 

Revell's RED PLANET blows MISSION TO MARS out of the water, as far as I'm concerned (even though I enjoy Morricone's effort too). Not only because of the score, but also because of the brilliant songs and instrumentals that come together beautifully as a concept album.

[Edmilson 7,466]

1 hour ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

corrected

 Yeah, although Raiders is the better movie and score, but I'm really fond of Goldsmith's score too. It's such a fun score, with great Goldsmith 80s action writing. 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

6 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 Yeah, although Raiders is the better movie and score, but I'm really fond of Goldsmith's score too. It's such a fun score, with great Goldsmith 80s action writing. 

Agreed, it's just that Raiders is one of my favourite score (and movie) but of course the Goldsmith's score is as always a great one.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

40 minutes ago, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

Agreed, it's just that Raiders is one of my favourite score (and movie) but of course the Goldsmith's score is as always a great one.

I'm not sure that kind of simplistic, strongly leitmotif driven was really his strong suit. Fortunately, he was a great composer and so did a bang up job, but it didn't play to his strengths. The same could be said for Supergirl.

 

Antz (John Powell) & A Bug's Life (Randy Newman) - Tough call. Antz is a really fun score, albeit a bit schizophrenic in places, but all of the disparate ideas are very enjoyable in their own right, from the surprisingly laid back main titles, to the more martial Colony Theme or the skittish music for the wasps. Even the Media Ventures action music is great. Having said all that, A Bug's Life is probably (by a whisker/mandible/whatever) my favourite Randy Newman Pixar score. The absolutely deluge of memorable themes, the intricate orchestral writing, terrific action music and typical heartwarming finale make it just one of those scores I absolutely adore. A shame the original album misses off some of the best cues (notably the return to the colony and finale) - as far as I can tell, they just skipped all the tracks with choir in them. Fortunately managed to buy the Academy promo and combine it into the full thing. Definitely a Newman score that needs an expansion.

 

Kundun (Philip Glass) & Seven Years in Tibet (JW) - Another tough call. Absolutely adore Seven Years in Tibet, the main theme is one of my favourites outside of his blockbusters and Yo-Yo Ma. It was also one of the first JW scores I really enjoyed after first getting into collecting with Jurassic Park. At the time, scores like Nixon and Sabrina didn't really do much for me (but now enjoy hugely). However, Kundun is a really superb mix of Glass' typical ostinato driven minimalism, with effective use of regional instrumentation and harmonies (perhaps more so than Williams' effort), with some utterly gorgeous moments such as Lhasa at Night and the tremendous, lengthy finale cue, Escape to India.

 

Braveheart (James Horner) & Rob Roy (Carter Burwell) - Not much to say about Braveheart that hasn't already been said, one of Horner's finest epic dramas, with a brace of memorable melodic material and the kind of dramatic sweep that Horner did so well. To my mind better than Legends of the Fall or Titanic - there is a haunting quality to Braveheart that conjures up mist covered Highlands and the bittersweet romance, which is less on the nose than either of those. I've always felt that Horner would have won the Oscar for Braveheart or Apollo 13 that year had he not been nominated twice - given that I assume it's a "first past the post" style system rather than any kind of preferential voting system, anyone who is nominated twice is immediately less likely to win if it splits their vote. Either score would have been a worthy winner. I'm pretty sure I've seen Rob Roy but don't really remember much about it. Burwell's score isn't actually a million miles from Horner's, mixing fine orchestral writing, effective use of the often overused 90s wailing woman trope, whistles and hand struck percussion. He even manages to use some Scottish pipes, but I think also goes for the Gaelic sort that Horner used (and gives Braveheart a more Irish than Scottish tone). It's a lot more intimate than Horner's score, but well worth checking out.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

On 3/5/2021 at 2:59 PM, Raiders of the SoundtrArk said:

Oblivion > After Earth

Octopussy > Never Say Never Again

The Shining >>>>> The Amityville Horror (although I don't know if there is really something to compare here)

Dunkirk > Darkest Hour

To me "Oblivion" was rather a twin to "Moon".

 

Another twin: Legend 《》The Last Unicorn

Both great scores (not counting Tangerine Dream)

[LSH 969]

A quick glance down that Wiki list, here are my two (or twin) cents...

 

While it's a score containing some of Horner's most blatant self-borrowing, I do enjoy Deep Impact over Armageddon nowadays; my tastes aren't as bombastic as they used to be.

 

Volcano over Dante's Peak, though the latter is the better film. I wish JNH had scored it entirely... his sinister theme for the mountain is rather good.

 

Antz over A Bug's Life. Can't think of much to say here, I just love Powell's animation scores.

 

Tombstone and Wyatt Earp is a tough one. As a lifelong JNH enthusiast, I'll probably go for the latter. Again, more restrained and less obvious 'Wild West' vibes gets my vote these days.

 

I haven't heard Rob Roy but if it's even close to the scope of Braveheart somebody needs to let me know.

 

Executive Decision and Air Force One are both great 90s Goldsmith action scores but I think the latter wins by a long shot.

 

Saving Private Ryan and The Thin Red Line are both great but very different scores for the war genre. Again, the latter wins just for being so different... and iconic.

 

Treasure Planet and Sinbad: Legend Of The Seven Seas... HGW's effort is one of his best but I still don't think it beats one of JNH's upper-average.

 

I honestly don't remember anything about Zimmer's Shark Tale. But Newman's score for Finding Nemo is a work of beauty.

 

That's it for now.

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

EARTHQUAKE > THE TOWERING INFERNO

 

JAWS > ORCA > JAWS2

 

RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK > HIGH ROAD TO CHINA

 

SUPERMAN III > SUPERGIRL

 

THE HUMANOID > BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS

 

THE BEASTMASTER > LADYHAWKE

 

 

[Thor 7,508]

4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

EARTHQUAKE > THE TOWERING INFERNO

 

Are you smoking weed this evening? EARTHQUAKE is fine, but COME ON! 

 

4 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

THE BEASTMASTER > LADYHAWKE

 

Absolutely not. LADYHAWKE is one of my favourite scores of all time!

 

Agree with your other selections, though.

[Edmilson 7,466]

As much as I like Powell and his collaborations with HGW, but A Bug's Life is the best score Randy Newman wrote for Pixar, and one of the very best Pixar scores in general.

 

Sinbad is pretty good, but I prefer JNH and his excellent score for Treasure Planet, specially the softer material between Silver and Jim.

 

I don't think I've ever heard the Armageddon score (never been much of a fan of the scores for Michael Bay movies), but I really like Horner's Deep Impact. One of my favorites from him in the 1990s.

[Thor 7,508]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I don't think I've ever heard the Armageddon score (never been much of a fan of the scores for Michael Bay movies), but I really like Horner's Deep Impact. One of my favorites from him in the 1990s.

 

The ARMAGEDDON theme is amazing (Rabin was enthused when I pointed out a similarity between the theme and the Rabin-penned Yes song "I Am Waiting"). Some of the other score bits are a bit overkill, but overall -- a fine score for the type of movie it was.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Hurricane > 303 Squadron 

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

43 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

JAWS > ORCA > JAWS2

Jaws > Jaws 2 >>>>>>> Orca

[Thor 7,508]

Depends on one's definition. JAWS beats most things in film music history out of the water (no pun intended) if we're talking in-context. In terms of soundtrack listening experience, however, JAWS 2 might have it beat.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

22 minutes ago, Thor said:

Depends on one's definition. JAWS beats most things in film music history out of the water (no pun intended) if we're talking in-context. In terms of soundtrack listening experience, however, JAWS 2 might have it beat.

It is a closer call than anyone might care to admit but they are, let’s face it, both are a superb composer at the top of his game.

 

But anyway... comparing Jaws and sequels wasn’t quite the point of the thread. Or really about rip offs of classic films made made later, more films that came out more or less contemporaneously that happened to be about virtually the same thing. A rip off or sequel or remake is more likely to owe a debt to the original/prior but two films that come out the same year start from the same basis in terms of the style of scoring prevailing at the time but chances are the composers won’t necessarily have heard the music for the other, similar music. It’s about as close to a scientific experiment that you can get with film composing or alternate “what if” scenarios even though I grant you that there are clearly going to be different takes on the material which will impact the scoring. Having listened to Rob Roy again earlier I was struck by how similar the style was compared to Braveheart at times but then where it diverged. Certainly a closer match in style than, say, Armageddon and Deep Impact.

[Thor 7,508]

Except that I don't think Burwell had any kind of connection to BRAVEHEART when he composed his score. Both are great. But BRAVEHEART wins. I still consider ROB ROY Burwell's greatest score.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

59 minutes ago, Thor said:

Except that I don't think Burwell had any kind of connection to BRAVEHEART when he composed his score. Both are great. But BRAVEHEART wins. I still consider ROB ROY Burwell's greatest score.

Oh for sure. That’s not what I meant to suggest. Merely that in that situation, the scores are more totally similar than others. I mean, for two films about devastating asteroids, Deep Impact and Armageddon are massively different.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

I still consider ROB ROY Burwell's greatest score.

 

I recently got that.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

I recently got that.

Hope you enjoy it!

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

31 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Hope you enjoy it!

 

Haven't listened to it, will try to remember tomorrow. Can't even remember how the music is, I just remember it wasn't bad.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

23 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Haven't listened to it, will try to remember tomorrow. Can't even remember how the music is, I just remember it wasn't bad.

I’m glad I gave it a listen earlier. It’s a fine effort, more intimate than Braveheart although Rannoch Moore is a pretty thunderous action cue. Have to admit that, list most Burrell scores, the thematic material didn’t exactly stick with me, lovely though it is.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Burwell is an underrated composer. He wrote fine scores from everything to Coen brothers movies to dramas like Three Bilboards. Even the abomination that was the Twilight saga inspired good scores from him.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Coco Chanel & Igor Stravinsky (Gabriel Yared) & Coco Avant Chanel (Alexandre Desplat) - both seem somewhat prototypical scores by both composers, elegant and classy. Desplat's has more momentum with his usual ticking, chopping strings moving things along, whereas Yared takes a more slow burn, chamber approach. It's actually somewhat old fashioned (albeit more delicately scored) mixed with more atonal writing.