The ALIEN FRANCHISE Appreciation thread.

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

There's some pretty strong parallels to ASO that I'd never noticed until I re-watched Alien the other day. Visually, it's not just the planetoid approach that could be almost straight out of ASO, but the third Nostromo explosion looks less like an explosion and more like something from the stargate sequence. Ripley says "Open the door" to ash right before the android reveal/before the artificial crew member turns against the humans. Like HAL, Ash seems to be struggling with two different directives when he attacks Ripley. And when Ripley uses the airlock to flush the xenomorph out of the shuttle and regain control of the ship, that's also straight out of ASO (the book).

[JTN 2,204]

Interesting… but are all these deliberate similarities or mere coincidences, something that our mind connects to another classic sci-fi because we want it to mean more than it does?…

Both film takes place on a spaceship, both spaceship has a crew, both ship has an AI on board that goes rogue… It’s not that hard that under similar circumstances somewhat similar things happen. I admit that these are quite strong parallels that can be deliberate on Scott’s or the writers’ part. But it can be mere coincidence as well. Either way it’s interesting to know how similar the two films are in certain ways.

[A24 4,364]

1 hour ago, JTN said:

It’s interesting to compare Alien to 2001:ASO, it has never occurred to me. The similarity with Star Wars was more evident - even Scott talks about its influence on him in the great documentary Empire of Dreams - in terms of the rugged, used look of the Nostromo. I would never have compared Alien to 2001, but obviously some do, and it’s an interesting notion that is not far fetched at all. But I consider Alien a pretty original piece of work, if such a thing even exists in art anymore. Clearly Ridley had his influences, and it’s possible that one of them was 2001. Scott, like Lucas, used these influences and took them to another level, made something new and special. That’s what great artists do.

 

Yes, Star Wars definitely played a role in the beat-up, used look of Alien, but in terms of direction, Kubrick was probably Scott's greatest influence on his first three movies. And even to this very day, Ridley regards 2001: ASO the best science fiction movie of all time. He even calls Prometheus a 2001 on steroids. 

 

Kubrick's influence is of course quite obvious in The Duellists but even on the set of Blade Runner Scott always wondered (according to the people who were there) how Kubrick would have shot it. Or Alien, I mean, just look at how similar the Space Jockey scene in Alien is to the Monolith on the Moon scene in 2001.  

 

“The design on ‘2001’ … that’s the threshold for everything being real. You look at ‘2001’ and you look at ‘Star Wars.’ Stanley’s design influenced everybody. I’ve never shaken it off; it influenced me even with ‘Prometheus'. Stanley really got it right. Stanley was like the Big Daddy, so I never got jealous of him.” - Ridley Scott

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

54 minutes ago, JTN said:

Interesting… but are all these deliberate similarities or mere coincidences, something that our mind connects to another classic sci-fi because we want it to mean more than it does?…

Both film takes place on a spaceship, both spaceship has a crew, both ship has an AI on board that goes rogue… It’s not that hard that under similar circumstances somewhat similar things happen. I admit that these are quite strong parallels that can be deliberate on Scott’s or the writers’ part. But it can be mere coincidence as well. Either way it’s interesting to know how similar the two films are in certain ways.

 

The "AI that has incompatible directives and in a surprise twist turns against the human crew" subplot seems too close to be a mere coincidence to me, especially only (rougly) ten years after the Kubrick/Clarke film. But of course, Alien as a whole is a very different thing - although I'm not sure now which of the two terrified me more when I saw them for the first times.

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

5 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Visually, it's not just the planetoid approach that could be almost straight out of ASO, but the third Nostromo explosion looks less like an explosion and more like something from the stargate sequence.

Yeah, I also get that vibe when seeing the explosion. Whether that was an intentional nod from Scott, or maybe the visual effects designer, I don't know.

[Andy 4,234]

While we’re comparing other Science Fiction to ALIEN, don’t forget Mario Bava’s Planet of the Vampires.  
 

 

[Thor 7,625]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

While we’re comparing other Science Fiction to ALIEN, don’t forget Mario Bava’s Planet of the Vampires.

 

I saw that some 10-15 years ago or so, after so many people raved about it being a "blueprint" for ALIEN (that, and IT! THE TERROR FROM BEYOND SPACE). Well, except for some obvious similarities (as pointed out in that video), I found the comparison somewhat overrated. Still, it's a pretty good film in and of itself, one of Bava's best.

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

I have a fuzzy recollection of a documentary that said the story was inspired by an EC comic that made an impression on Dan O'Bannon.

[Thor 7,625]

Well, there was never anything particularly original in the superficial story elements of ALIEN. It's all pretty straightforward B movie tropes that have been explored in various shapes and forms before. The only reason it's such a classic is that those tropes were lifted to A level by various mise-en-scène elements. Scott, Giger, Goldsmith, Rawlings, Vanlint, chamber ensemble etc. So that it's not only a superficial story about "humans fleeing from monster in dark corridors" (although it works on that level too), but is instead infused with all kinds of layered elements relating to Freudian imagery, the subconscious, sexual trauma etc. etc.

[crocodile 8,051]

Watched Aliens on the UHD disc last night. Great fun, although the picture could use more grit. Somehow, it makes some of the visuals look wonkier.

 

Karol

[JTN 2,204]

2 hours ago, Andy said:

While we’re comparing other Science Fiction to ALIEN, don’t forget Mario Bava’s Planet of the Vampires.  
 

 

What about DARK STAR, co-written by Dan O’Bannon?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Thor said:

Well, there was never anything particularly original in the superficial story elements of ALIEN. It's all pretty straightforward B movie tropes that have been explored in various shapes and forms before. The only reason it's such a classic is that those tropes were lifted to A level by various mise-en-scène elements.

Just like George Lucas did in the case of STAR WARS or RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK.

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

3 hours ago, crocodile said:

Watched Aliens on the UHD disc last night. Great fun, although the picture could use more grit. Somehow, it makes some of the visuals look wonkier.

 

Karol

I read they used AI to get rid of a lot of the grain—et voilà! You get to see the rough edges of the visual effects, unfortunately.

 

Between the muddy VHS and this, I think DVD's level of clarity hit the sweet spot, without looking hyper-detailed and too crystal-clear.

 

By the way, Karol, I've wanted that Polish Jaws 2 poster you got as your avatar since forever, but it's just too damned expensive when I see it!

 

 

[A24 4,364]

12 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I read they used AI to get rid of a lot of the grain—et voilà!

 

 

I've heard they used AI to enhance the image quality (it looks like a modern movie now) and that they did not eradicate the film grain completely. Cameron hated the poor film stock Aliens was filmed on and so did I. TBH, when it comes to film restoration, I would like to see what AI is capable of.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,695]

It's interesting to see how the Brandywine guys saw THE DUELISTS, and thought: "That's our man".

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

11 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

I read they used AI to get rid of a lot of the grain—et voilà! You get to see the rough edges of the visual effects, unfortunately.

 

According to a review I saw, it was a newer type of AI than what used to be used for DNR, and I think they also had human passes over the results. According to that review, most noise is gone, but it looks much better than classic overused DNR. Cameron hated the low quality film stock they used (i.e. it was never intended to be as grainy as it turned out). Supposedly it still looks decidedly different/more modern, but apparently that's mostly an artistic choice/matter of taste.

[JTN 2,204]

I love the original look of ALIENS. Loved it on VHS, DVD and Blu-ray. I don’t have a 4K TV, so I’ll probably never see this new transfer, but based on what you say about it, I don’t particularly want to.

[Thor 7,625]

I am going to see the new 4K version at some point (not at my place....I don't have the tech...but at someone's place, I'm sure), but as I've alluded to before, I'm very skeptical. I love my analogue grain, dammit! It's part of the film's entire look. I've done the obligatory round with these films -- first as VHS copies of TV screenings, then original VHSes, then the ALIEN LEGACY DVD box and then finally the ALIEN QUADRILOGY DVD box, which is where I stopped. I could possibly be persuaded to get the Blus, but I really think the DVDs look perfectly fine.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,695]

Cameron goes into detail about the grain in ALIENS, in his commentary.

 

Has anyone seen ALIEN at the cinema, yet?

As far as I can tell, it's not showing in the UK.

[A24 4,364]

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It's interesting to see how the Brandywine guys saw THE DUELISTS, and thought: "That's our man".

 

The Duelists? I've never seen that movie. 

[GerateWohl 4,459]

It has conspiciously beautiful shots. I don't remember the story. Just that it had extraordinary aestetics.

[Thor 7,625]

37 minutes ago, A24 said:

The Duelists? I've never seen that movie. 

 

I'm guessing that is a joke? Of course you've seen it. It's a fantastic film (happy to own the DVD) and "son", in a way, to Kubrick's BARRY LYNDON.

 

The transition from THE DUELLISTS to ALIEN might sound strange, but it's one of those series of circumstances things. In short: Ivor Powell, the DUELLISTS producer who was now working with Scott on his attempted (but aborted) TRISTAN AND ISOLDE adaptation, had introduced Scott to the Heay Metal comic, which triggered a science fiction interest in the young director. Meanwhile, boss of the UK branch of Fox, Sandy Leiberson, had seen THE DUELLISTS and was impressed enough by it to bring it to the central branch in LA and Alan Ladd. Walter Hill was supposed to have directed it himself, but had other obligations. At this point, they had already gone from the goofy Dan O'Bannon concept to something more serious. So they went for Scott. The rest is history.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,695]

4 minutes ago, Thor said:

...had introduced Scott to the Heay Metal comic...

 

Never heard of it 

[JTN 2,204]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

It has conspiciously beautiful shots. I don't remember the story. Just that it had extraordinary aestetics.

There's really not much of a story to be found, except for a possessed soldier trying to take revenge on another soldier. It's a solid debut of a director whose next two films became two of the greatest sci-fis of all time. 

[A24 4,364]

9 minutes ago, JTN said:

There's really not much of a story to be found ... 

 

Just like Alien. 

[Jay 37,478]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

 

I'm guessing that is a joke?

 

He was joking because Richard spelled it Duelists instead of Duellists

[Marian Schedenig 8,240]

Dualists?

 

 

For those who weren't scared enough by Alien: Isolation:

 

[Thor 7,625]

Yeah, I saw that. Wondering how I'm going to be able to experience any of that without the tech (it's apparently available on PC and consoles too, but you need a VR headset to get the full experience, I think).

 

Reading about it (the little information there is), appears that game, too, is set between ALIEN and ALIENS. It frustrates me a bit that every new entry in the universe is squeezed together around the two original films. For decades, I've wanted them to move FORWARD, after the events of RESSURECTION. Preferably while Sigourney Weaver is still alive. She's a clone, not an android like David (it's more pressing to get Fassbender back before it's too late) so she can age perfectly fine without causing any narrative problems. Film can easily be set 30+ years later.

 

The only entry after RESSURECTION is the book "Sea of Sorrows" (2014), which I haven't read and which is set more than a hundred years after the events of that film. But I want a direct continuation in film form, dammit!

[12-Mile Reef 124]

52 minutes ago, Thor said:

The only entry after RESSURECTION is the book "Sea of Sorrows" (2014), which I haven't read and which is set more than a hundred years after the events of that film. But I want a direct continuation in film form, dammit!

 

This novel also picks up directly after Alien: Resurrection with Ripley 8, Call etc involved but it's not particularly great:

 

 

Ripley 8 and Call also appear in this but I've never read it:

 

[JTN 2,204]

1 hour ago, A24 said:

 

Just like Alien. 

A group of deep space miners get woken up from hypersleep because their ship's computer detects an alien distress signal emanating from a nearby planet, then the crew land on the planet and there find a derelict alien spaceship and inside they find the corpse of an alien "space jockey", and later mysterious egg-like objects, and one of the crew members gets attacked by a creature that jumps out of the "egg, that attaches itself to the face of the astronaut, and impregnates him with a xenomorph that later bursts out of the crew member's chest and kills him in effect, then the xenomorph escapes and hides inside the spaceship. The remaining crew members try to capture the alien, but as the alien grows larger and larger, it starts killing the crew one by one, until only one crew member remains, who decides that the only way to kill the alien is by blowing up the entire ship, and escape with an emergency pod. After destroying the mother ship, the crew member finds that the alien got into the pod with her, and she is now locked inside the small pod with the alien...

 

 

[Thor 7,625]

1 hour ago, 12-Mile Reef said:

 

This novel also picks up directly after Alien: Resurrection with Ripley 8, Call etc involved but it's not particularly great:

 

 

 

Ha, interesting! It was not on the Alien Xenopedia timeline. Thanks for the tip! Great or not, sounds exactly like the story I'm after. It appears to start at some deep space station, and not earth, so presumably some time must have passed, and the Betty crew must have felt the urge to go back out again.

[JTN 2,204]

Guys, what is your ranking of the franchise (films only)?

 

Mine:

1. Alien

2. Aliens

3. Alien 3

4. Alien: Resurrection

5. Prometheus

6. Alien: Covenant

[Nick1Ø66 4,827]

20 minutes ago, JTN said:

Guys, what is your ranking of the franchise (films only)?

 

Mine:

1. Alien

2. Aliens

3. Alien 3

4. Alien: Resurrection

5. Prometheus

6. Alien: Covenant

 

What, no AvP? 

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

5 hours ago, Thor said:

I love my analogue grain, dammit!

James Cameron (channeling George Lucas): "This is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw a grainy film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be."

 

1 hour ago, JTN said:

A group of deep space miners get woken up from hypersleep because their ship's computer detects an alien distress signal emanating from a nearby planet, then the crew land on the planet and there find a derelict alien spaceship and inside they find the corpse of an alien "space jockey", and later mysterious egg-like objects, and one of the crew members gets attacked by a creature that jumps out of the "egg, that attaches itself to the face of the astronaut, and impregnates him with a xenomorph that later bursts out of the crew member's chest and kills him in effect, then the xenomorph escapes and hides inside the spaceship. The remaining crew members try to capture the alien, but as the alien grows larger and larger, it starts killing the crew one by one, until only one crew member remains, who decides that the only way to kill the alien is by blowing up the entire ship, and escape with an emergency pod. After destroying the mother ship, the crew member finds that the alien got into the pod with her, and she is now locked inside the small pod with the alien...

 

 

And don't forget the android, whose loyalty is to the company, and first priority to bring a xenomorph back for research...

 

Yeah, plenty of story beats. I mean, what else would you like? If there was more story, then people would turn around and call it "convoluted," à la 'Prometheus.'

 

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

Has anyone seen ALIEN at the cinema, yet?

As far as I can tell, it's not showing in the UK.

Going after work today... I don't know if it's a limited engagement or not, but hope to catch it twice.

[JTN 2,204]

8 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

What, no AvP? 

Well, no… But you’re welcome to include them in your list. 

[Imperivm 151]

28 minutes ago, JTN said:

Guys, what is your ranking of the franchise (films only)?

 

1-2. Alien / Aliens

3. Alien³

4. Prometheus

5-6. AVP / Alien: Covenant

7. AVP:R

8. Alien: Resurrection

 

1-2, 5-6 spots are interchangeable for me. As for Covenant I also stick to a fan cut a friend of mine did, which integrated the YouTube shorts, character introductione and cut off a few stupid lines. It'a not the best but a good improvement.

Also, sorry Resurrection fans, it just wasn't of my liking, despite some of its qualities.

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

 

What, no AvP? 

'AvP' is definitely what I'd call a guilty pleasure. To paraphrase what Ralph Macchio said about 'The Karate Kid,' it's like eating a nice, greasy cheeseburger. And I particularly like the lead actress and the relationship she forms with the predator.

[JTN 2,204]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

'AvP' is definitely what I'd call a guilty pleasure. To paraphrase what Ralph Macchio said about 'The Karate Kid,' it's like eating a nice, greasy cheeseburger. And I particularly like the lead actress and the relationship she forms with the predator.

I’m like that with PROMETHEUS. So dumb and illogical, yet it’s somehow engaging. Incredible that the same guy made it, who made ALIEN.

[Nick1Ø66 4,827]

14 minutes ago, JTN said:

Well, no… But you’re welcome to include them in your list. 

 

Well, in that case, here's my list:

 

1. Alien
2. Aliens

10 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

To paraphrase what Ralph Macchio said about 'The Karate Kid,' it's like eating a nice, greasy cheeseburger.

 

I'm thinking a more a big serving of takoyaki on a paper plate, but, yeah.

 

Actually, I take that back. I love both cheeseburgers and takoyaki, and would have both again. As for AvP, I didn't like it the first time, and once was enough.  😂

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

12 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I'm thinking a more a big serving of takoyaki on a paper plate, but, yeah.

Mmmm... Extra mayo and dried bonito flakes, please!

[JTN 2,204]

24 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Well, in that case, here's my list:

 

1. Alien
2. Aliens

No love for Alien 3? 

[Nick1Ø66 4,827]

17 minutes ago, JTN said:

No love for Alien 3? 

 

Nope. I found it, in both versions, to be a depressing slog. I thought the script was a mess.  I mean, there might be an interesting sci-fi flick in there about criminals living a monk-like existence on a penal colony, but this wasn't it. Almost felt like the xeno's were shoehorned into another story. Watching the film (and I've given it several chances) I feel like it's meant to be something else. I'm frankly surprised Fincher didn't Alan Smithee it.

 

And I thought the way they casually killed off Hicks & Newt off-screen was unforgivable. Cinematic malpractice. 

[Thor 7,625]

It's still Fincher's best film, and one of the top 10 best films of the entire 90s.

[A24 4,364]

1 hour ago, Mr. Hooper said:

James Cameron (channeling George Lucas): "This is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw a grainy film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be."

 

 

Some people love bad film stock a little too much. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,827]

I think Fincher's best film is probably The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.  Or perhaps The Social Network (mostly due to a fabulous Sorkin script).

[Thor 7,625]

With the exception of GONE GIRL and most recently THE KILLER, I can't really connect much with Fincher from ZODIAC onwards. But those first five films - absolute masterclasses, all of them.

[Mr. Hooper 1,914]

37 minutes ago, Thor said:

It's still Fincher's best film, and one of the top 10 best films of the entire 90s.

[Thor 7,625]

Bold and delicious.

[JTN 2,204]

2 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Nope.

Not even Goldenthal's score?

 

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

It's still Fincher's best film, and one of the top 10 best films of the entire 90s.

If he hadn't done SE7EN, I would wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

 

Alien³ has fantastic atmosphere, cinematography, art design, great script and acting, one of the greatest scores ever written, and a perfect, melancholic ending, one of the best ever for a major franchise. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,827]

I mean, is Alien³ even a Fincher film, given that he's disowned it? Maybe, out of respect, we should acknowledge the auteur's opinion and not regard it as part of his oeuvre, and therefore not rank it against the others?

 

Perhaps It might be more useful to create a ranking of films by famous directors whose first name is David and who disowned a science fiction film that went on to become a cult classic? I'll start:

1. Dune (1984)
2. Alien³ (1992)

[JTN 2,204]

5 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

I mean, is Alien³ even a Fincher film

It absolutely is. 

 

9 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

not regard it as part of his oeuvre

Why the heck wouldn't we? As you said, it's a cult classic masterpiece, that was in large part directed by David Fincher.