Is John Williams' film music more elegant than Jerry Goldsmith's?

[GerateWohl 4,370]

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

What happened with enjoying both composers' work for their own inherent values?

And why is that not tired and old?

[Thor 7,508]

3 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

And why is that not tired and old?

 

Say what? 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

You said, why still pick on that Williams vs. Goldsmith debate when it is tired and old.

Tired is of course a matter of mood and oppinion.

But I am just making the point that enjoing both composers work for their own inherit values is just the same as old. That is why I don't see the point.

And I would even say, that everyone participating in this discussion IS enjoing both composers in their own way. And nobody thinks, that he or she is just discovering a complete new aspect and finally discovering that Goldsmith was an unelegant and coarse composer.

Comparison is just a tool for understanding and learning.

 

[Thor 7,508]

But enjoying each for their inherent value is not a discussion. It's neither tired nor old. It just is.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

But enjoying each for their inherent value is not a discussion. It's neither tired nor old. It just is.

Yes. But I think, the people rather enjoy listening to the music alone at home and come here for discussing, because this is a discussion forum.

[Thor 7,508]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Yes. But I think, the people rather enjoy listening to the music alone at home and come here for discussing, because this is a discussion forum.

 

Yeah, that's fine. I'm not saying the discussion shouldn't exist, I'm saying I'm impressed people still have the stamina to discuss such an ancient and talked-through topic. Like the equally ancient "Horner copies from himself" debate.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Yes, I know. We are in the 21st century. And people still discuss human rights and why war is a bad thing. That's how it is.

 

But I fully understand that you are tired of it.

[Thor 7,508]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

But I fully understand that you are tired of it.

 

Probably just a side effect of having been on film music forums for 25 years, and seen the topic come and go about a million times. I realize there are fresh and young people coming in for whom this is a brand new topic.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

To us you're still fresh and new, Thor!

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

I'm impressed there's still all this stamina to discuss something so tired and old. The Williams vs. Goldsmith debate has been a stalwart discussion for as long as I've been visiting film music forums (long before too, but then less visible). What happened with enjoying both composers' work for their own inherent values?

 

Hehe, true and it's the same timebeater it was back in 2002, but with the general discussion level here and elsewhere, it's still Top 3 material.

 

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

That view highly depends in what is your aera of interest in music. 

 

I would say, Goldsmith wrote more boring scores than Williams. 

 

It doesn't really depend, Williams just suits people better who like their stuff more Oscar-bait and generally prefer to listen to the Star Wars main title a million times. It's a personality thing, and then you slap the most positive adjectives on your favourite. This semantic self-delusion also remains the same since we started here.

 

Sure JG wrote more crap, he composed twice the amount and for much more eclectic projects. If pressed for examples i would name The Haunting and the aria from Sum of all Fears as examples of a polished, horn-cum-strings arrangement people seem to associate with 'elegance'. But the elegance of Williams and Horner, who have/had a very similar grasp on Hollywood prototypes of 'big and beautiful' comes at a price: a lot of it sounds much too similar and often come off as button-pushing in the movie.

 

I don't really care about that, as i hardly watch movies anymore (at least not those) but these days, even the prospect of 150 minutes of unctuous Amistad americana makes me go 'ergh', while a loose mellow 70's thing like Eiger Sanction gets my $.

[artguy360 1,843]

I don't think I'm going to properly convey this idea but...

 

To me, JW's scores more often has the feel that it is both has a musicality that makes it interesting to listen to on its own and works primarily to support the movie.

 

Goldsmith's music is kind of the opposite where more often it sounds perfectly crafted to support the movie but is also a little less interesting to listen to on its own.

 

Edit: it's also funny to read this thread on a JW fan forum and makes me wonder how different the responses would be on a JG fan forum. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

59 minutes ago, publicist said:

It doesn't really depend, Williams just suits people better who like their stuff more Oscar-bait and generally prefer to listen to the Star Wars main title a million times. It's a personality thing, and then you slap the most positive adjectives on your favourite.

Ok, so I guess you are a more mature personality than we are.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Ok, so I guess you are a more mature personality than we are.

 

That's for sure.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Aww, JWFan's resident narcissist.

[publicist 4,643]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Aww, JWFan's resident narcissist.

 

Between us it's the choice between awful ego run or awful jokes run amok. I know which i prefer! 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

So you finally admit it.