The Most Meh/Average Film that JW Turns Into a Blockbuster/Classic With His Music Alone?

[Chen G. 3,949]

17 hours ago, BB-8 said:

Tempted to say the low-budget Star Wars 1977, because if that film would have received a thin unemotional percussive synth score it would never have had such an initial impact and lasting effect.

 

And if it had all the Rosza, Holst, Dvorak et al it was going to have had Williams not convinced Lucas to let him write an original score? It would obviously be lesser, but I don't think it would have been unsuccesful.

 

And $11 million in 1976 dollars, spent in an inflation-striken Britian and cheap-arse Tunisia, is really not such a low budget.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

I think, if you substitute Williams' score and Burt's sound effects from Star Wars, it would have probably not been half that successful. But I might be wrong. 

[Brónach 1,302]

2 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

 I have to agree, I really like the premise of Close Encounters, and perhaps for its time it was something great, but I don't think it holds up, especially the directors cut. E.T. is another one, which I found just as stupid as a kid as I do now, and I thought his music was far more glorious than the film and JW outright saved that film, which I personally feel would have not been remembered.

 

oh, shut up

 

JW was very lucky to get to work in these, which have always been great, and if not, then someone else would have been lucky. generally, a movie doesn't start being made from the score.

[Thor 7,508]

3 hours ago, WilliamsStarShip2282 said:

There are a ton of movies that I thought were awful, but his score was great. The Robert Altman films especially

 

The two Robert Altman feature films he did are some of the best films Williams ever scored.

 

15 hours ago, Datameister said:

 But I'm hard-pressed to think of a case where music has singlehandedly elevated a movie to being a classic.

 

That's exactly right. Can't think of a single example. Maybe some of those old Ringo films that Morricone scored are more famous for their music than the films, but the films aren't bad.

 

We all love film music and we all love John Williams and what he adds to a film, but we sometimes need to take a step back from our fandom and assess more objectively. Some of the titles being thrown around here would still be great films even without his music, or with music by a different composer. It's possible to BOTH recognize a film's greatness AND its score, without having to speculate about its success with or without said music.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

13 minutes ago, Thor said:

but we sometimes need to take a step back from our fandom and assess more objectively.

 

I completely agree with you, but I fear you may be optimistic with this bit. The need to validate one's fandom by declaring that Williams singlehandedly made Spielberg's movies blockbusters, is too tempting for some  

 

I'd prefer this debate were about finding films that are genuinely a bit 'meh', but where the score (doesn't have to be Williams. Other composers are available) really improved the watchability of the film for some reason.

 

On which note (and taking a glance at my Blu-ray shelf), Goldsmith probably made Air Force One into a more serious film than it would've been with Newman's score, but when you've got Ford and Oldman fronting the film it's not going to bomb at the box office just because the music is a bit silly in a few places.

[Chen G. 3,949]

30 minutes ago, Thor said:

we sometimes need to take a step back from our fandom and assess more objectively. Some of the titles being thrown around here would still be great films even without his music, or with music by a different composer.

 

Quite.

 

I think the question to ask is not "what would film X be like without score" because when we do so, we imagine the film without a score at all, which is scarcely fair. Instead, we ought to ask "what would film X be like with a score similar in vein to score Y, but of a lesser calibre."

 

Yeah, I think a lot of the movies tossed around would suffice with a similar, but lesser, score.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I know that 99% of cinemagoers don't notice the music anyway, from various personal discussions.

 

Hence there's the question of whether the music is almost subliminally making the viewer go and tell everyone to see the film without explicitly mentioning the music. I'd suggest probably yes in some cases but (before you lot too excited) that it probably just needs the music to be big and prominent, and not necessarily of JW's calibre.

[Edmilson 7,466]

You wanna know a meh movie that was elevated by a John Williams score better than it deserved?

 

See here. And also here.

[Edmilson 7,466]

According to Ryan George, the reason why Home Alone was so much more successful than most kid comedies is not John Williams, but rather the fact that it's a Christmas movie.

 

 

[Tom 4,661]

 It is the unique sort of longing for family at Christmas and theme of forgiveness that sell Kevin's arc.  The melancholic flavor to Somewhere in my Memory sells it even more.  Old man Marely's arc is exactly the same--that the two learn from each other is great too.  

 

Hughs and Columbus let these "serious" themes playout front and center, so the comedic elements, including those parts of the score, feel cathartic.  Most kid comedies play the comedy first and drama second (if at all).  This leads to the vapid and banal nature of them.  I would argue that even HA2 falls into this latter category.  

[mrbellamy 6,287]

I know what you're talking about with Home Alone and it's something I've mulled over here before too. I think I'd remember the movie as funny and heartfelt, but more the way I look at John Hughes's Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, another holiday comedy classic. Home Alone's music gives it dimensionality with richer atmosphere and feeling that puts it in a "Christmas magic" category, closer to A Charlie Brown Christmas or It's A Wonderful Life, which would probably be unlikely otherwise. 

 

Like, I also enjoy A Christmas Story and National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation (another John Hughes), but I don't think of them as "magical" per se, just great Christmas comedies. If Home Alone had a synth-y score or a more typical wacky comedy score with some low-impact emotional swells, I'd remember it more firmly in the comedy category. Imagine music that concerned itself with John Heard picking up Pesci's gold tooth, for example, or the "oops!" tone of Buzz's final line.

 

I'm also trying to compare to Mrs Doubtfire, which has the same enduring legacy, warm Chris Columbus touch, incredible box office heights without John Williams's help, but I think the difference is that I don't think of it as a movie with cinematic gravitas the way I remember Home Alone. Williams really sells me at the end that I just watched an epic tale, it's nuts. 

[Schilkeman 964]

I don't think any film can be made great by the score alone, however, a great score can make the difference between a great film and an all-time great film. We remember Spielberg movies because he had John Williams, but we remember John Williams because he had Spielberg movies. Talent attracts talent.