Oscars

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Here his victory could be explained since the ROTK score was like the ONLY noteworthy movie score released all bloody year.

That's far from the truth. There were several noteworthy scores this year.

Ray Barnsbury

Ummmm such as?

Sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this one. I have seen numerous people on here (practically everyone) admitting this was a HORRIBLE year for scores.

I mean the most noteworthy score release after ROTK was what?

Last of the Samurai? Which is good, but nothing approaching Oscar Worthy.

[Hlao-roo 389]

A few remarks...

Billy Crystal remains my favorite host of the Academy Awards.

I was disappointed that the Academy selected Sean Penn over Bill Murray. The former really went a bit over-the-top in his performance; the latter's was a lot more affecting in its understatement.

Disappointed with Best Song win for Shore/Walsh/Lennox. A pleasant song that nonetheless doesn't have the spunky originality of Charet's "Belleville Rendez-vous," which sounds a little better in French, by the way.

I wish Jim Sheridan's moving In America weren't shut out, but I admit it probably wasn't robbed.

Thomas Newman loses again, sadly, despite the incredibly energetic yet un-childish score he wrote for one of my favorite films of the year. Howard Shore deserved the award in 2001, just for developing such a brilliantly distinct soundscape for the LOTR trilogy, even if many of the themes were bland and unimaginative. Having established this soundscape, however, Shore hasn't managed to impress me since.

[nja 0]

Ok, so I missed most of the Oscars.  Which ones did ROTK walk away with?

Every one (it was nominated for).

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I wasn't surprised with Penn's victory honestly.

The guy is very popular with the ULTRA-LIBERAL anti-Bush Hollywood crowd so it only made sense that he won. Not to mention hes much more down with the Hollywood scene and people than Bill Murray.

That alone is enough to help Penn gain an edge over Bill Murray.

Penn won the popularity contest which is really what the Oscars have become.

[nja 0]

Didn;'t say ROTK was a weak movie.  

I said it ran against a weak field. Which it was. In terms of Oscar worthy movies I mean. I mean this was HARDLY a year of major competition. What was ROTK's biggest competition really?  

Mystic River? Thats HARDLY major comeptition.  

Now of course its certainly not ROTK's fault that the movie faced weak competition. They just got lucky.  

Got lucky? As in wouldn?t have won otherwise. Assuming it did have a weak field, it still won eleven awards. That?s getting out of the fluke winner range.

Not to mention being the first fantasy film ever to win best picture, a little hard to explain away if you ask me (which you didn?t).

In any event, congrats to all the winners.

[King Mark 3,631]

I said it ran against a weak field. Which it was. In terms of Oscar worthy movies I mean. I mean this was HARDLY a year of major competition. What was ROTK's biggest competition really?  

Now of course its certainly not ROTK's fault that the movie faced weak competition. They just got lucky.  

what I'm saying is the Shore won by default this year(and I agree with Alan he only needed to win once,anybody that says it's the "same" as Williams sequel scores for the SW and Indy film which were totally distinct entitites from the original movies needs to re-evaluate his stand as a knowledgeable JW fan),but as a whole RotK should have won any given year,it's quite an accomplishment in film making

What I'm trying to say is the LotR may rank as my favourite films,but i still think the music could have been better,even if I "somewhat" like it and think a few cues are pretty good

K.M.

[Lurker 5]

Regardless of what won what, 2003 was a very weak year for films. An awful lot of garbage came out last year. It should be plainly obvious when a film like Pirates of the Caribbean gets an acting nod! No disrespect intended to those that like the film, but as good as you think Depp was in the movie, it wasn't Oscar caliber, just like as much as I enjoy The Fugitive it really wasn't Best Picture material in 1993. Very good entertainment, but not a great film.

This year's Oscar's offered no surprises whatsoever. I just wish Bill Murray would have won. I'm sure he would have made a New Zealand comment.

And as has been pointed out, Titanic also won 11 Oscars (in most of the same categories) and we all know the kind of respect that film gets.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

A lot of people hated Titanic(which boiled down to a sappy teen girly movie).So it's getting a retroactive bad rap by those people.I didn't meet yet someone who really hated LotR,indifferent is the worst i've seen

K.M.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

True,who cares,nobody's seen em

Wow...Liv Tyler looked hot,even with the weird glasses

What's that weird contraption Sting was playing on?

K.M.

I believe it was a hurdy-gurdy.

[Lurker 5]

I didn't meet yet someone who really hated LotR,indifferent is the worst i've seen

I disliked the first film and am indifferent towards the other two as I have no desire to see them.

Hate is a strong word. I hate Attack of the Clones and As Good As It Gets. The first LOTR was just dull. It didn't make me angry, the way AOTC did and it didn't put me to sleep, the way AGAIG did (yes I really did fall asleep in the theater opening day attempting to watch that train wreck of a movie. I've flushed things better than that).

Of course FOTR put me off of ever listening to the scores or reading the books or seeing the other films so maybe I do hate it. It's not worth my time though pondering this issue.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

Never heard of it...

Oh yeah,and Maria Menoudos looked really hot at the pre-oscar show in her 2.5 millon dollar diamond dress.

K.M.

[Lurker 5]

Maria Menoudos looked really hot at the pre-oscar show in her 2.5 millon dollar diamond dress.

You mean this...

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

Whoa!

K.M.

[Wojo 2,453]

I know I haven't been to this site in eons, and my icon over there to the left ( <--------------------- ) still shows ALF in Santa garb (unless I feel like changing it), but tonight I watched the final big three awards of the Oscars, and one piece of music stood out. When the cast and crew present for The Return of the King stepped onstage, I really liked the rendition of the Gondor/Minas Tirith theme that featured pulsing strings. Does anyone know if this piece of music will become available in the near future, if it's not already out? because it's certainly not on the soundtrack album that way.

All you LOTR haters out there, take heart: There are no more LOTR films to be made to take awards from the plethora of HP and SW and IJ films left to be made. banghead

(ok, ok, The Hobbit, but I scarcely believe that will have the emotional impact that TLOTR has, although the sights in that film will be spectacular as CGI)

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Ok, I give up. What is AGAIG?

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Got lucky? As in wouldn?t have won otherwise. Assuming it did have a weak field, it still won eleven awards. That?s getting out of the fluke winner range.

As I stated already most of the areas in which ROTK won were "technical achievement" Oscars which are based alot on your budget. Also, in recent years there has been a "bandwagon" mentality at the Oscars where the Academt voters seem to get behind a certain popular movie and shower it with Oscars.

Not to mention being the first fantasy film ever to win best picture, a little hard to explain away if you ask me (which you didn?t).

And what should I have to explain? ROTK being the first fantasy movie to win a Best Picture should be a little obvious.

The reasons?

1) There have been VERY few REAL fantasy movies produced over the years. Before the age of Star Wars major Hollywood fantasy films were practically unheard of and most of those that did exist were marketed towards children.

2) There have been even FAR less good fantasy movies. Most fantasy movies over the years have been corny kids stuff. The number of fantasy movies worthy of being considerable for a Best Pciture Oscar is probably even less. You could probably count them on one hand with fingers to spare. I mean besides the SW films the LOTR films are the only ones you could probably even think of being nominated for Best Pic. Maybe the Wizard of OZ is a possiblity as well but that is not really a true fantasy film IMO.

3) LOTR comes from an established book series which has gained a great deal of favor and credibility over the years. This isn't like some fresh fantasy universe like SW was in 1977. This is a world that people have known about for many years.

4) The Academy has loosened up alot recently. This aint the same Academy of "old gaurd" types who demand a strict type of film for Best Pic consideration. I mean hell! Johnny Depp was nominated for a friggin Pirate movie for crying out loud.

However, with that said. Let me make this clear! I am not saying ROTK isn't a great movie. Nor am I saying it wasn't deserving of the Best Pic Oscar. Although IMO it should've went to Master and Commander which I still give the edge. What I am saying is that ROTK had factors which assisted it in winning big. The most significant of which is the weak field of movies surrcounding it. As Neil even admits to!

[pixie_twinkle 48]

Oh yes. I'm disappointed Danny Elfman didn't win this year. Has he ever won? Big Fish was easily the best score of the bunch this year IMO.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Big Fish = Meh IMO!

I found that score to be flat and not really that inspired.

Where is the Elfman who composed Batman and Edward Scissorhands?

SERIOUSLY! Has anyone seen THAT GUY?

I've been missing him for years!

If anyon sees him please let me know because the guy who has taken his place since then is seriously lacking!

[King Mark 3,631]

Well,Jaws,Star Wars,Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T. should have won best picture in their days,because they WERE the best pictures,but they got shut out for beeing fantasy/adventure films.Plus The Exorcist should have got it in 73 as a horror film.

But in the late 70s and 80's it was all about Woody Allen artsy-talky flicks

K.M.

[ocelot 508]

Bull fucking shit it was a weak year!!!! Mystic River, Seabiscuit, In America, Monster, American Splendor, X2, The Italian Job, Bend it Like Bekham, Whale Rider, House of Sand and Fog, Lost in Translation, Master and Commander, Finding Nemo, Cold Mountain, Girl with a Pearl Earing, and Love Actually to name a few, and Johnny Depps performance in Pirates WAS definitely oscar calibur. Please, he even won the SAG awards which to acting is the ultimate award. Return of the King didn't have competition, my ass!!! The reason it won is because the trilogy was an incredible feat and it won for ALL three of the movies together. Don't get me wrong, I love it, but to say that it was a weak year, well, depends on if you like good movies or geek flicks.... For geek flicks, yup, it was a weak year. Most geeky movies were crap (with the exceptions of X2 and ROTK) I will say this though, Sean Astin deserved an oscar nod for best supporting actor in ROTK.

[King Mark 3,631]

River,  I will say this though, Sean Astin deserved an oscar nod for best supporting actor in ROTK.

yes,definitively,he held the movie togheter in the end.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

 For geek flicks, yup, it was a weak year.

Yup,Daredevil,Hulk,The Core,Tomb Raiders 2,League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...they pretty much all sucked.

K.m.

[nja 0]

I will say this though, Sean Astin deserved an oscar nod for best supporting actor in ROTK.

That was most disappointing to me that there was not even one acting nomination for ROTK. Okay, so it's an ensemble cast, but IMO Sean Penn wasn't in throwing distance of Asten, Mortensen, and others.

Plus it might have edged out Titanic- no way that could have been a bad thing.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Just heard the "news". They didn't air the Oscar Night here so I heard all the winners "en bloc" on radio.

Bad luck for Czech Republic again (we had a nominee in the FLF category) and we lost again and the last time "we" won was for Kolya.

Still, LOTR's raid on statuettes could have been expected, but I'm not surprised the Annie Lennox's song eventually won. It's miles better than Enya's "May it Be", I think.

Since Howard Shore won twice for the same music only slightly re-arranged and re-orchestrated to go well with each part of trilogy, isn't it a misprision? I would agree that Shore's feat deserved to have been honored, but they already did or shouldn't have give it its first oscar for FOTR. Had LOTR saga had 10 parts, could it win ten times?

They practically admitted the Shore's score is the best score of all-time, at least Shore managed to present the same joke thrice and twice got awarded.

Anyway, congratulations are in order...

Roman.-)

[King Mark 3,631]

Fine,Shore won twice because everything LotR won last night.I just don't expect him to break new grounds in future scores,win or even get staple nominations like Williams,Barry,Horner get year after year.

K.M.

[nja 0]

Since Howard Shore won twice for the same music only slightly re-arranged and re-orchestrated to go well with each part of trilogy, isn't it a misprision?

Roman.-)

. . . wondering what the last word was meant to be.

[Hlao-roo 389]

Since Howard Shore won twice for the same music only slightly re-arranged and re-orchestrated to go well with each part of trilogy, isn't it a misprision?

Roman.-)

. . . wondering what the last word was meant to be.

It was meant to be misprision. Probably not the word I've have used, being a native speaker, but it's a word.

[nja 0]

All right . . . my fault. I just wasn't familiar with it.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Or "wrongdoing"?, maybe not really a criminal act, that would have had been too rough.

I can't stomach that fact that LOTR was made eligible in whatever category (musical score) and it's been more than obvious that the score is a soup we've eaten before. That is, simply put, unfair. I don't want to constantly talk about HP prequel scores or Indy scores to have been tagged ineligible for upcoming Oscar joust. But I accept they have good reasonings for that...

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't know what it means either...

BTW this is a good time to ask if there a good online free to use English Dictionnary

K.M.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Damnation! I meant HP sequel and SW prequel scores, but I hope you get my point...

[ocelot 508]

nja, i dissagree. Sean Penn is an incredible actor who could out act pretty much any one out there right now. Sean Astin in ROTK, Cate Blanchet and Ian McKellen in any movie are the only three who even come close to him acting wise out of the main cast.... IMHO of course. Vigo???????? Orlando???? Liv????? I love them but they don't compare acting wise...

[King Mark 3,631]

I can't stomach that fact that LOTR was made eligible in whatever category (musical score) and it's been more than obvious that the score is a soup we've eaten before. That is, simply put, unfair. I don't want to constantly talk about HP prequel scores or Indy scores to have been tagged ineligible for upcoming Oscar joust. But I accept they have good reasonings for that...

Furthermore the fact that it won despite there is a new rule of sorts may make the enforcement of that rule in the future more strict and may make future Williams scores inneligible,surely some people are bitter tonight,especially if Shore was nominated because of a "temporary" oversight of the new rule.And I will be even more bitter if this creates a chain of events that prevents Williams from getting another Oscar.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

I apologize for the messiness and lack of clarity, but I haven't slept in a very long time.

Well, that was the least surprising show I've ever seen.

I can't believe how little imagination these guys have, just to give it all to one movie. It didn't diserve Art Direction, song, sound or editing, and the adapted screenplay was a joke.

'A Kiss at the end of the rainbow' is a better song, and the performance, which I thought would be really out of place, was one of the highlights of the show.

It's sound was perfectly adequate for the movie, but I don't see how they could've denied it from M&C, where sound was one of the most important elements.

The editing also was perfectly adequate (untill the last twenty minutes, where alot more should've come out), but was not unique in any way. M&C was perfectly timed, and without the dragging ending.

To give a screenplay oscar to a movie that was based on a book and that dialogue was one of the least important factors is a huge blunder, especialy when there is something like Mystic River in the field.

And I personaly was far more impressed with the Samurai village and 19th century Tokyo than the art direction in RotK.

With that said, it definatly did deserve to win VFX, score and Makeup, and was one of the three deserving costume nominees.

About best director and picture- over here, I'm really conlficted. On the one hand, the movies are a tremendus achievment, and Peter Jackson did an amazing job in puttign it together, but on the other hand, none of the three films were best of the year, and in their own way (on a smaller and much smaller scale), Master and Commander and Mystic River are also great achievments.

All in all- I'm not sad that they won, but both because RoTK was the sure thing and because that in theory the oscars are given out on a yearly basis for a reason- I would be happier if Mystic River won, and much happier if M&C won. But it is at least a great films, unlike Chicago or (shudder) The English Patient, and is far more deserving than the other two in the category.

A few small observations:

I liked that Connery started the whole thing. Much better than to have the acadamy president. It gives it a whole touch of class.

I was surprised that in the 'trailer' they used genuine Zimmer action music, as the oscars generaly have traditional film music in all it's parts.

Probably my favorite bit was the bit with Crystal and Williams. That was great.

I'm happy at the music the used for all RoTK wins (although some moderation would be nice), they picked my favorite part of the score, and IMO the best and one of the only really good themes in the movies.

I was surprised to hear Silvestri's name mentioned in the short film win.

I loved the performance of Zimmer's Last Samurai theme when Cruise came out. Unlike most, it was a really full performance.

And I'm so glad RotK got no acting nominations. It didn't deserve any, especialy not Astin or Mortenson. Penn, Kingsley, Depp, Robbins and Watanabe were so much better than them. I don't understand all the talk about Astin.

Well,Jaws,Star Wars,Raiders of the Lost Ark and E.T. should have won best picture in their days,because they WERE the best pictures,but they got shut out for beeing fantasy/adventure films.Plus The Exorcist should have got it in 73 as a horror film.

I think The Exorcist is either extremely overrated or extremely out dated. And IMO Dog Day Afternoon was slightly better than Jaws in 75'. but both were better than Cukoo's Nest.

But E.T. was better than Gandhi, and Raiders was light years ahead of Chariots of Fire.

But in the late 70s and 80's it was all about Woody Allen artsy-talky flicks

Hey- Manhatten and Annie Hall are two of the best movies ever. But ESB was better than Ordinary People, which is now out dated.

Where is the Elfman who composed Batman and Edward Scissorhands?  

SERIOUSLY! Has anyone seen THAT GUY?  

I've been missing him for years!  

He composed Black Beauty.

Big Fish = Meh IMO!  

I found that score to be flat and not really that inspired.  

I think it was a very good score. bit too much of an Elfman sampler perhaps, but then again so was the film for Burton.

And final thought for the morning: I'm very happy the Sean Penn won. I may have liked Depp more, but Penn was fantastic in the movie. And for Depp, with that kind of comedic role, it really was an honor just to be nominated.

And although I liked Lost in Translation, and liked Murray alot, I just didn't feel as much for the film. I don't think it was as great as people say, and I think it was a bit unfocused at times, what with the humor at the begining in what is really a drama with comedy, not an interchangable comedy/drama.

And Penn and Depp have made a career of great, new, interesting performances, where as I think Groundhog Day is the only other really Murray performance with a film to match. And Murray always plays himself. It's like Jack Nicholson last year- I wasn't nearly as impressed by him doing part of himself as I was with Day-Lewis creating a brand new character.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

Anyone seen "Zelary" (our candidate in Foreign Language Film category)...? I would have never conceived of it a "Oscar hopeful" (even after it got nominated), so I'm not surprised it leaves empty-handed, but the director (Trojan) seemed quite disappointed over the loss... but the nomination itself must have been a huge gratification to him. The movie didn't do too well here, which I thought would have had to mean "something"

[King Mark 3,631]

No,but I'm glad The Barbarian Invasion won,our French Canadian movie.

K.M.

[nja 0]

I don't know what it means either...

BTW this is a good time to ask if  there a good online free to use English Dictionnary  

K.M.

http://dictionary.reference.com/

[King Mark 3,631]

 I think The Exorcist is either extremely overrated or extremely out dated. slightly .

I dunno i first saw it when I was about 13y old and it scared the bejesus out of me,i didn't sleep for a month.I guess it was traumatic enough to still have some residual effect.I saw the re-release last year in the cinema and thought it was still very effective,and so did most who were watching it it seems.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

Than I just don't get it I guess.

Morlock- who hasn't liked a single Friedkin film save The French Connection.

[A24 4,348]

I didn't meet yet someone who really hated LotR,indifferent is the worst i've seen

Hate is a strong word. I hate Attack of the Clones and As Good As It Gets.

Besides your hatred towards them, I really fail to see why these two are in the same sentence. They are each other's opposites in every thinkable way. Everything AOTC is not, As Good As It Gets is.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

No,but I'm glad The Barbarian Invasion won,our French Canadian movie.

K.M.

You haven't missed out on much, although I should have been more patriotic and say no such thing as that. But I honestly don't like that flick too much to recommend it. the leadeing actress was overacting and the story never reaches a peak that it promises to.

I plan on seeing that movie as you suggest, King. It's been in talks around here where I live for a while and has had more or less positive reviews.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

KM wrote:Furthermore the fact that it won despite there is a new rule of sorts may make the enforcement of that rule in the future more strict and may make future Williams scores inneligible,surely some people are bitter tonight,especially if Shore was nominated because of a "temporary" oversight of the new rule.And I will be even more bitter if this creates a chain of events that prevents Williams from getting another Oscar.

K.M.

I hope they didn't found the rule to prevent John Williams from getting nonpareil number of nominations. Sure it's known to public he's going to work on sequel scores and ruling them out of competing may have been intentional. I wouldn't be surprised for this rule to be found illogical after JW has gone on retirement. But hope fails...

[Morlock 11]

I didn't meet yet someone who really hated LotR,indifferent is the worst i've seen

Hate is a strong word. I hate Attack of the Clones and As Good As It Gets.

Besides your hatred towards them, I really fail to see why these two are in the same sentence. They are each other's opposites in every thinkable way. Everything AOTC is not, As Good As It Gets is.

----------------

Alex Cremers

Yeah, they have absolutely nothing in common.

[A24 4,348]

I think The Exorcist is either extremely overrated or extremely out dated.

Outdated? Why? Try a little bit explaining in your verdicts, please. They sometimes baffle me.

And IMO Dog Day Afternoon was slightly better than Jaws in 75'. but both were better than Cukoo's Nest.  

But E.T. was better than Gandhi, and Raiders was light years ahead of Chariots of Fire.

And this constant comparison totally makes no sense. You make it sound like a Formula 1 race.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[King Mark 3,631]

I plan on seeing that movie as you suggest, King.

I'm not suggesting anything,I haven't seen it yet.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

Outdated? Why? Try a little bit explaining in your verdicts, please. They sometimes baffle me.

I don't think they could make the demon-Regan any more repulsive or effective with all the CGI in the world.

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

And IMO Dog Day Afternoon was slightly better than Jaws in 75'. but both were better than Cukoo's Nest.

But E.T. was better than Gandhi' date=' and Raiders was light years ahead of Chariots of Fire.[/quote']

And this constant comparison totally makes no sense. You make it sound like a Formula 1 race.

I liked one more than the other. What's not to understand?

[King Mark 3,631]

 

I hope they didn't found the rule to prevent John Williams from getting nonpareil number of nominations. Sure it's known to public he's going to work on sequel scores and ruling them out of competing may have been intentional. I wouldn't be surprised for this rule to be found illogical after JW has gone on retirement. But hope fails...

He didn't even win for Harry Potter or any of the Indy scores.It makes no sense whatsoever he should be barred from winning for any of those series ever.

K.M.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think The Exorcist is either extremely overrated or extremely out dated.

Outdated? Why? Try a little bit explaining in your verdicts, please. They sometimes baffle me.

It didn't affect me in the least. Looked like just a gross out horror movie.

[

I dont want to sound like TLIJ,but your religion has some affect on how you react to this movie.Espacially if you were raised in catholic school in the 70's.

[Morlock 11]

I could certainly understand that. I don't deny that in what religion you belong to may have an impact on your experience of certain movies (Although Ironicaly, Friedkin is Jewish).