Opinons about Amistad and Empire of the Sun

[American-Journey 0]

Hello eveyone

I am would like your input on a topic that has been in the back of my mind for some time now. I love the two scores for Amistad and Empire of the Sun, but I would appreciate your opinon on the scores. I find these two scores very moving and full of emotion, in my opinon, some of the best music that John has written for a movie soundtrack. Again, would love to hear your opinon on the subject. Thank you for your input!

American-Journey

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think both are good scores, with 2 outstanding choral tracks.

But i don't listen to them that much.

[MrScratch 294]

I think both are good scores, with 2 outstanding choral tracks.

But i don't listen to them that much.

Me either... I enjoy "Dry Your Tears" and "Capture of Cinque" immensely, but sadly I've never made it much further than those two cues. I listen to "Cadillac of the Skies" and "Exultate Justi" from the Spielberg/Williams Sony CD all the time, but the soundtrack itself I rarely play. Though, I do like Suo Gan quite a bit.

[Morlock 11]

Both are great scores. Amistad IMO has one of Williams' best themes, and my one stop answer to anyone who complains about JW's lack of diversity. Also The Long Road to Justice is a great Williams track.

I still don't totaly get EoTS, but the first 3 tracks are phenominal, and although I think Exultate Justi is a bit run of the mill for Williams, it is a very good choral track.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I enjoy "Dry Your Tears" and "Capture of Cinque" immensely, but sadly I've never made it much further than those two cues.

But...you can't not play Middle Passage!

Marian -

Facing Goya (Michael Nyman)

[Melange 446]

I listen to Empire of the Sun quite a lot. My favourite track is "Toy Planes, Home and Hearth". For several years i'd only been listening to that kind of suite on the Spielberg/Williams Collaboration disc mixing Cadillac of the skies, and this piece. But when i got the actual soundtrack disc and heard "Toy Planes, Home and Hearth" on its own, i much prefered that. The voices of the choir on the original are particulary striking and have a much deeper element of emotion (imo). Especially around 1:53-2:08. Hearing the piece in it's entirety,is better. I especially love the way it melds into that piano piece by Chopin near the end. Amistad is one score i've not heard, nor seen the film.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I admit that I need to get to know these scores better than I do, but I think both are quite good. Though neither is my favorite, they serve their films very well and have some outstanding moments on album. I particularly enjoy Jim's New Life, Exultate Justi, Cadillac of the Skies (from the Greatest Hits), Dry your Tears, Cinque's Theme, and The Long Road to Justice.

Ray Barnsbury

[A24 4,333]

Amistad I'm not to fond of but Empire of the Sun is probably one of the best soundtracks ever written by Williams, but it's not Easy Listening.

[HPFAN_2 0]

I don't have Empire of the sun so i can't say anything about that. I do have Amistad however and i love Dry you tears Africa. Once i played it for my little sister and she loved it sooo much she kept singing it over and over, of course it wasn't clear and the words were all slurred but i find it funny.

[nja 0]

What most stands out in my mind about these two scores is their brilliant use of musical elements drawn from actual material in the films.

Of course, Amistad does this with its use of African rhythms and instrumentations, well-coordinated with the orchestral elements of the score as is generally the case with JW.

The score to Empire of the Sun seizes on a recurring thematic element in the film- the main character?s position as a soprano soloist in a boy?s choir.The film opens with him singing in a cathedral and I believe there is a place in the film when he sings in the concentration camp and everyone stops to listen.

JW takes that boy?s choir element of the film and incorporates it in some of the most poignant moments- Cadillac of the Skies of course and Exultate Justi as well as in other cues.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

this sounds like a job for Peio

[Adam 1]

The score to Empire of the Sun seizes on a  recurring thematic element in the film- the main character’s position as a soprano soloist in a boy’s choir.The film opens with him singing in a cathedral and I believe there is a place in the film when he sings in the concentration camp and everyone stops to listen.  

JW takes that boy’s choir element of the film and incorporates it in some of the most poignant moments- Cadillac of the Skies of course and Exultate Justi as well as in other cues.

That's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of. My feeling is that the scenes that used wordless choir are usually used to accentuate Jim's flight of imagination, where Jim seems to be no longer fully connected to the events around him. The choir lends a kind of surreal, quasi-religious feeling to the particular moments. In other words, I think JW would have made the choice of a choir independent of the main character's being in a choir. That (non-JW) solo performance is used twice, as you say, as source music and a third time to score the finale. So that piece of music does take on a special significance. Exulti Justi feels somewhat disconnected to the score and I have a feeling it was written to satisfy a very specific request from Spielberg. Its used briefly in the movie and mostly on the end credits. It works fine but I don't think its the route JW would have normally gone. I could be wrong on that point.

Amistad is interesting for its combination of patriotic American elements and, often, African sensibilities. The melody for Dry your Tears, Afrika, goes both ways depending on the situation in the movie. Cinque's theme (track 4) is a highlight for me. JW wrote it for a scene of particular poignance and religious feeling. That comes through in the music, I think.

That only barely touches on the riches of these scores but, overall, two extremely impressive and effective scores, I think.

- Adam

[nja 0]

My feeling is that the scenes that used wordless choir are usually used to accentuate Jim's flight of imagination, where Jim seems to be no longer fully connected to the events around him. The choir lends a kind of surreal, quasi-religious feeling to the particular moments. In other words, I think JW would have made the choice of a choir independent of the main character's being in a choir. -  

Adam

What you say is about the effect of the choir is true. I didn?t mean to imply otherwise and I guess when you hear such glorious music in a film, it?s hard to imagine it being scored any other way.

What is unique IMO is the choice of a soprano boys choir which I think has an extra bit of symbolic significance in this story- almost like ?a chorus of Jim?s? if you will. Also, the unchanged male voice is generally recognized to have a more mellow sound than the female soprano voice, giving soprano boys choirs a different sound that is sometimes considered richer than a ladies chorus.

[MSM 126]

Jim's New Life is on of my favourite Williams tracks, that middle section is gorgeous. From Amistad I like Dry Your Tears and The Road To Justice most although I only have them on tape

[Romão 2,274]

Empire of the Sun has moments of sheer musical brilliance, when one gets overwhelmed flowing through it. Trully a 5 star score, with one of the best uses of choir.

Amistad is one of my little treasures. It's in my top 10 JW scores, my all family loves it (I mean, my dad keeps playing the cd, and I don't think he even knows who the composer is). Dry Your Tears is incredibly moving, even more so given its triumphant tone. The theme gets great renditions, from the glorious and goosebump inducing (the middle passage) to the melancholic, reflective and very very moving (Going Home).

Cinque's Theme is another glorious display of emotion and has a great effect on the movie itself (love the rendition right on the first scene of the film). I'm also very fond of Cinque's Memories of Home, which gets a great choirless rendition in the movie regretably absent on the cd. I also love the "American" parts of the score, but the african influenced tracks just blow me away. Has some have said, this is a true showcase of JW's versatility. The 2 scores would be the crowning achievement in the careers of almost all film composers working nowadays.

[scarybunny 0]

Empire of the Sun has some of my favorite moments in it. I've always loved 'Imaginary Air Battle'.

[A24 4,333]

The movie also has some of the most brilliant scenes ever captured on celluloid, like 'Imaginary Air Battle' and 'Cadillac of the Skies'.

[scarybunny 0]

The movie also has some of the most brilliant scenes ever captured on celluloid, like 'Imaginary Air Battle' and 'Cadillac of the Skies'.  

 

Indeed.

[Morn 8]

A lovely score Empire of the sun, some of Williams best tracks. And I also think it's the basis of his 90's style.

Amistad is a very good score, but not quite the classic Empire of the sun is.

[A24 4,333]

Good words, Morn. My faith in mankind is restoring.

[Peio 0]

this sounds like a job for Peio

Empire of the Sun is presumably the best film score ever made. The music characterizes the emotions and dreams of Jim, in a constant evolution from tender and disturbing passages to joy and dispair, but always full of hope. An immeasurable and incomparable achievement,

Morn is right, it’s the beginning of a new style, which would be followed in the 90’s.

My feeling is that the scenes that used wordless choir are usually used to accentuate Jim's flight of imagination, where Jim seems to be no longer fully connected to the events around him. The choir lends a kind of surreal, quasi-religious feeling to the particular moments

Yeah, but not only the worldless choir (which always represents his feelings), but the whole score. Even Exsultate Justi reflects the overwhelming happiness of Jim, Lost in the Crowd accentuates the confussion of the moment (when Jim doesn't understand what's going on), Jim's New Life intensifies the good adaptation of Jim to the life in the camp, etc.

I'll talk about Amistad some other day, an underrated masterpiece, one of his 5 best scores.

[Incanus 5,714]

I think that both scores a spectacular and Williams ability to produce these very unusual sounds (I mean compared to his more recognisable style) is amazing. Amistad just keeps getting better and better after all this time. Empire of the Sun is a bit fragmented thematically but still wondeful with beatiful choral writing. The concert version of the Cadillac of the Skies is impossibly uplifting and joyous. I listen to these 2 scores quite often.

[Erin 0]

they're both beautiful pieced. 'cadillac of the skies' is my personal fave, 'dry your tears afrika' making a close second, though i had to sing that in an eigth grade chorus, and it almost killed it for me. (even if it IS john williams, 70 13 years old singing flat is no fun.)

[Hlao-roo 389]

they're both beautiful pieced. 'cadillac of the skies' is my personal fave, 'dry your tears afrika' making a close second, though i had to sing that in an eigth grade chorus, and it almost killed it for me. (even if it IS john williams, 70 13 years old singing flat is no fun.)

Hey, that's better than having to play 'My Heart Will Go On' in an eighth grade string orchestra...

[Erin 0]

ok, i'll give you that.

nothing is worse than ANY version of 'my heart will go on'.