Dex dinner and more music composer

[Elmo Lewis 6]

1.) I know that numerous people, even at this board, have become JW fans through JP because they've SAID SO.

That is correct, and I'm one of them, with a story eerily similar ot Ray's (taping the music off the VHS end credits).

2.) As a kid I knew JP was a lot of fun, and that's all.  I really didn't care to seriously compare films at that time.

That is also correct.

3.) As a nineteen year-old, I think the Harry Potter films thus far are quite heavily flawed, though the first is still quite good and the second somewhat good.  I don't know how you've become so deluded into thinking I believe them to be the best films ever, because I've never said anything remotely like that.

All of the points made there are correct.

4.) What the hell do you mean I can't back it up?  IT'S SUBJECTIVE.  I listed how 'Journey to the Island' is a classic piece of film music IMHO.  I don't need anymore "backup" than that, because again, it's subjective a.k.a. an OPINION.

That is correct.

5.) The move IS up to Spielberg's usual par.  AGAIN, this is an opinion and yes, I've seen plenty of Spielberg movies to compare it to.

That is correct althoguh remains subject to debate.

Sorry Alex, you went a bit too far guessing this time. If you don't understand us Jurassic Park fans (or 19 year-olds), don't try to predict us.

Ray Barnsbury  :roll:

Another correct statement and emoticon.

[Romão 2,274]

Yeeiii, the 1982/1984 borns are really making a name for themselves!!!In a few decades, we will be the ones complaining when Spielberg changes the title of the film to Jurassic Park: A New Threat, or something like that, and tweaks a few scenes and there will be websites named "Dilophosaurus spits first".

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Haha, very true Merkel. And it's nice to have the support, from both you and Ender. JWFans: The Next Generation!

Ray Barnsbury

[Romão 2,274]

Now all we need is a "veteran"-like designation above our avatars.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I have a powerful influence over the moderator, I'll see what I can do.

Ray Barnsbury

[Romão 2,274]

"The JP generation"

[A24 4,348]

BTW- anyone interested in backing me up about 'Journey to The Island'?

for once you and I are in agreement.

Journey to the Island is one of John Williams greatest tracks. While we never did an official top 10 JW tracks, we've done enough polls, and JTTI has always been among the favorite tracks of all John's works. It is one of the most emotional, uplifting, and truely magical tracks he's ever done. Your credibility to we just improved, while Alex's keeps getting smaller and smaller.

To quote the great Morlock:

"The audience is usually wrong."

Polls don't mean a thing. Actually, you can bet your life it's the opposite of the outcome that is the truth. Hey Joe, you should subribe to that Classic FM magazine that concluded LOTR is the best score ever written and Howard Shore is the best film composer that ever walk the Earth. If it were up to the public...we would be left with only Jurassic Park and Harry Potter, for what Williams is concerned. I'm glad that the masses and I don't think the same.

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Alex Cremers

[A24 4,348]

I enjoy JP as much as or more than those films Neil, though I've not seen them as many times.  To have the most informed opinion I'd have to see them more, but there's nothing in them that made me think, "Wow, that sure is better than JP."

Ray Barnsbury

What about the enormous lack of good character development. This is my biggest problem with the film. It's something Spielberg has forgotten to weave into his films lately, which is really strange since he once excelled at that. Sadly enough, Jurassic Park is filled with boring cliché characters with not-so-smart dialoque and it really goes "turkey" with The Lost World. It's the side of Spielberg I never want to see again. I can only hope he never makes another one.

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Alex Cremers

[Morlock 11]

Hey Joe, you should subribe to that Classic FM magazine that concluded LOTR is the best score ever written and Howard Shore is the best film composer that ever walk the Earth.  

I just saw at Tower records the FoTR score with a sticker "Voted by Classic FM the greatest film score of all time!".

[A24 4,348]

That's right! Except for the word subribe, I didn't make anything up.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Hey Joe, you should subribe to that Classic FM magazine that concluded LOTR is the best score ever written and Howard Shore is the best film composer that ever walk the Earth.  

Irrelevant, and you know it. Morlock asked for back up, no matter what you want to believe, yours is a minority view here at JWFAN, and as Ray is so adept at pointing out, its just an opinon.

Still there are more fans here who will call Journey to the Island great or a classic that people like you who don't care for it.

Joe, who thinks Jurassic Park is a great score, and worthy of classic status.

[Lurker 5]

Except for the word subribe, I didn't make anything up.

Neil

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't see Williams hiring people to write music for him.I see him more doing all his compositions alone in his office on his piano.Maybe a few times he asked help for a few cues because of his schedual,but probably under tight supervision.

K.M.Delegating the writing of his 4000th post to Stefancos.

[MrScratch 294]

In Jurassic Park, Spielberg (and Williams) present the dinosaurs from two points of view. The awe of discovery and of bringing back extinct species... and the inevitable terror and havoc the dinosaurs wreak. So, Williams had no choice but to score both of these angles. And he scores them both brilliantly IMO. The end result though is that the score, both in the film and on CD, is a little incoherent. But if you're going to blame anyone, blame Spielberg... he's the one that filmed the movie.

The only fault with the score is the Island Fanfare. When I first saw JP, that theme always seemed inappropriate. Here you have the main characters flying to the island, unaware that they are about to see anything spectacular. So to score a simple helicopter ride (at least in the minds of the paleontologists) with a bombastic fanfare always seemed wrong to me. Its a great fanfare, and it sounds great on CD and in concert, but in the film that scene probably should have been scored in a completely different tone.

The Main Theme is one of Williams' best, I was almost in tears the first time I saw the dinosaurs on screen when they first get to the island and that theme going. Journey to the Island is far from Williams' best track, because the first half (Island Fanfare) is overblown and overdone.

Somebody said that the music never sounds like menacing dinosaur music... What about the Opening Titles, Incident at Isla Nublar, Raptor Attack, High Wire Stunts, Eye to Eye, T-Rex Rescue... All thrilling cues and there's all the major action/scary scenes for you save one, the unscored T-Rex attack. High Wire Stunts is probably the most conventional, but still effective. Williams delivered the goods, you can't blame Williams for Spielbergs inclusion of the cutesy dinosaur and kiddie scenes... Although the Brachiosaurus theme is quite nice.

JP is not the best Spielberg film or Williams score, but both are solid efforts and with many masterful touches. I don't see how any JW fan can think otherwise.

Jeff

[Romão 2,274]

Very nicely put, MaestroJw. Still, I don't agree about the fanfare..I think all it's trying to convey is a sense of the grand adventure these characters are about to go through.I dunno...I just can't imagine that scene withou the fanfare. IMHO, it is a perfect marriage.

[A24 4,348]

JP is not the best Spielberg film or Williams score, but both are solid efforts and with many masterful touches.  I don't see how any JW fan can think otherwise.

I really fail to see any masterful touches in Jurassic Park, the film I mean. Please tell me one thing about it that demonstrates Spielberg's gifted talent. I'm a Spielberg fan myself and I can see masterful touches in almost any of his films but I think Steven, the director, has very little to do with this film.

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Alex Cremers

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I really fail to see any masterful touches in Jurassic Park, the film I mean. Please tell me one thing about it that demonstrates Spielberg's gifted talent. I'm a Spielberg fan myself and I can see masterful touches in almost any of his films but I think Steven, the director, has very little to do with this film.

Well, it is true that Spielberg was very uninvolved with the film. But you can see he was at least excited with the idea in some of those "masterful touches", such as the trembling glass of water; the raptors' chase in the climax: how he mixes elements from relaxation, then tension, then horror, then a little bit of hope, then more tension... a perfectly orchestrated build-up towards the greatest finale: T-Rex rescue, the fanfare kicks in, and that majestous roar...

There's not much you can do if you don't grasp the sheer emotional ride that is, putting all intellect aside. But hey, after all, I don't connect with Close Encounters, so just substract some crediblity from me, that'll make it much easier to deal with it.

-Ross, who wonders what intellectual mastefulness people expect to derive from a movie where dinosaurs are resurrected.

[Lurker 5]

-Ross, who wonders what intellectual mastefulness people expect to derive from a movie where dinosaurs are resurrected.

I expected the same level of greatness I got from a movie about a man eating shark.

Neil

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Perfectly put Maestro and Ender, though I agree with Merkel about the fanfare. That scene is one of my favorite examples of how music can totally control the feeling of a film, and thus the audience's reaction. There's really nothing that exciting going on, just a helicoptor ride, but with the score it becomes an appropriately exhilarating experience.

Ray Barnsbury

[Marian Schedenig 8,212]

Ross, who wonders what intellectual mastefulness people expect to derive from a movie where dinosaurs are resurrected.

Well, the novel is quite intellectual, and very good.

Marian - wishing the movie would be more like it.

[Morn 8]

So to score a simple helicopter ride (at least in the minds of the paleontologists) with a bombastic fanfare always seemed wrong to me. Its a great fanfare, and it sounds great on CD and in concert, but in the film that scene probably should have been scored in a completely different tone.

Firstly, anything to do with flying is rather thrilling to me, secondly, it serves as a nice bombastic fanfare for John Hammond and his business. And fits the glorious environment and look of the island, spielberg is obviously trying to depict the same thing the music is, with the camera.

-Ross, who wonders what intellectual mastefulness people expect to derive from a movie where dinosaurs are resurrected.

Hey, that movie is going to serve as inspiration to biologists and paleontologists for ages, they are already trying to bring back mammoths.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

and they will succeed, and may already have.

[Morn 8]

This is what sci fi is all about, inspiring the future.

[A24 4,348]

-Ross, who wonders what intellectual mastefulness people expect to derive from a movie where dinosaurs are resurrected.

I expected the same level of greatness I got from a movie about a man eating shark.

Me too.

Jaws invested a lot of time and effort into the main characters, it had to, the shark didn't look so good.

I really fail to see any masterful touches in Jurassic Park, the film I mean. Please tell me one thing about it that demonstrates Spielberg's gifted talent. I'm a Spielberg fan myself and I can see masterful touches in almost any of his films but I think Steven, the director, has very little to do with this film.

Well, it is true that Spielberg was very uninvolved with the film. But you can see he was at least excited with the idea in some of those "masterful touches", such as the trembling glass of water; the raptors' chase in the climax: how he mixes elements from relaxation, then tension, then horror, then a little bit of hope, then more tension... a perfectly orchestrated build-up towards the greatest finale: T-Rex rescue, the fanfare kicks in, and that majestous roar...

Tension, horror, hope don't work if you don't have any characters you care for. This description is more reminiscent of a Roland Emmerich movie than of a Spielberg.

Jurassic Park invested a lot of time and effort into the dinosaurs, they had to, the script had neglected the main characters. (although they may have work for little kids)

I'm guessing here (I'm sorry) but could it be that the majority of JP lovers also happen to like Stargate, Independence Day and Godzilla? Now be honest about it. I, for one, don't see much difference (besides the fact that JP is better than any Emmerich, of course).

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Alex Cremers

[Romão 2,274]

Well, will all respect, you guessed wrong. I absolutly hate those 3 movies.

Sure Spielberg is capable of better things, but as an action/adventure movie, Jurassic Park just soars. True, Jaws may be a masterpiece of the genre, but that doesn't make Jurassic Park a bad movie, just because in the views of some of you it doesn't have the same character devolopment. It's a tough standard to live to, if a movie has to be as good as jaws, specially in a age when the audience is not easily amazed.

[A24 4,348]

Well, will all respect, you guessed wrong. I absolutly hate those 3 movies.

Sure Spielberg is capable of better things, but as an action/adventure movie, Jurassic Park just soars. True, Jaws may be a masterpiece of the genre, but that doesn't make Jurassic Park a bad movie, just because in the views of some of you it doesn't have the same character devolopment. It's a tough standard to live to, if a movie has to be as good as jaws, specially in a age when the audience is not easily amazed.

You might hate them Emmerich movies (Are you really, really sure? Search your feelings!) but that doesn't mean that there are many who adore them for their high percentage of "entertainment" value and have his DVDs standing right beside Jurassic Park which they love for all the same reasons.

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Alex Cremers

[Morn 8]

Some of his movies are ok, like Stargate, it has a neat style, interesting idea. Lacks character and dramatic qualites. And the film leaves you with nothing that much really, other than the coolness impact of the sets and FX!

[A24 4,348]

Exactly. I rather see interesting characters than a cool set or cool FX.

[Morn 8]

Jurassic Park has a very interesting story. The characters are amusing and rather good, they don't strike you as real people like Jaws though, but eh. It's a well directed movie. And though not as good as Jaws, it's not that far off.

[A24 4,348]

Sure, and the Sun is not a star.

Anyhoo, Morn is living proof that JP is likely to be like by those who appreciate the works of Emmerich.

I've heard many people say the same, about the book that is.

Saying it's not far off from Jaws is the overstatement of the year.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

It's this simple, Alex. Sharks are beautiful, mesmerising creatures. But dinosaurs... boy, dinosaurs are awe-inspiring, fascinating. Basically because they are extinct, wat's more imagination-enticing than that?

If you make a movie about a shark, you can focus on the people around the shark, and make it a good dramatic, character-driven movie. If you make a movie about dinosaurs, and you focus on the people, you'll have 2 hours of audiences wondering, "now, where's the T-Rex?"

So it's not fair to compare Jaws to Jurassic Park, because they are different movies. Sure, they are similar in many aspects, but way different in concept. It would be like comparing Signs to Independence Day. Spielberg made Jaws a good human drama - but with Jurassic Park, he knew he had to make a dino movie, and that's just what he was looking forward to make.

With Jurassic Park you're supposed to let go off that rational security bar that usually cages imagination, and just feel the joy and horror of those amazing creatures running and roaring toward you. Simple as that.

(Off-topic: Didn't I get a lot of these points when I said I didn't like Superman: The Movie?)

-Ross, who hates hates Roland Emmerich's movies.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

Alexcremers, your lack of faith sounds disturbing... *raises hand*

Godzilla is revolving awful. period...

the the movie about a man eating shark a chinese movie?

Luke, who thinks spielberg did only a movie about a man-eating shark...

[Morlock 11]

Godzilla is indeed an awful movie.

[KarmBee 0]

The only fault with the score is the Island Fanfare. When I first saw JP, that theme always seemed inappropriate. Here you have the main characters flying to the island, unaware that they are about to see anything spectacular. So to score a simple helicopter ride (at least in the minds of the paleontologists) with a bombastic fanfare always seemed wrong to me. Its a great fanfare, and it sounds great on CD and in concert, but in the film that scene probably should have been scored in a completely different tone.  

Maybe, but I know it's the first thing I'm going to play when the plane starts to land if I ever go to Maui.

Godzilla is indeed an awful movie.

Agreed. Were the "Baby Godzillas" a little too raptor-like for anyone else besides me?

You might hate them Emmerich movies (Are you really, really sure? Search your feelings!) but that doesn't mean that there are many who adore them for their high percentage of "entertainment" value and have his DVDs standing right beside Jurassic Park which they love for all the same reasons.  

Don't be silly. My set of Indiana Jones DVDs are between Independence Day and Jurassic Park. Alphabetical you know.

~Karm- who thinks things in life should never be taken too seriously, since it's just a waste of energy to argue over spilt milk and whose cookies taste better. Mmmm cookies.

[MrScratch 294]

I really fail to see any masterful touches in Jurassic Park, the film I mean. Please tell me one thing about it that demonstrates Spielberg's gifted talent. I'm a Spielberg fan myself and I can see masterful touches in almost any of his films but I think Steven, the director, has very little to do with this film.

Jaws is a masterpiece, I'm not really trying to compare the two because JP as a whole will always come up short. But the first T-Rex attack and the Raptors hunting the children in the kitchen are as scary as any of the scenes in Jaws. Those scenes show a complete mastery of sound and editing, to terrifying effect.

For those that complain about lack of character development, JP has more character development than Raiders of the Lost Ark. But no one ever seems to complain about this in ROTLA. JP does offer up some cloning pro/con discussions, John Hammond shows regret in building the park, Alan Grant learns to connect more with children. Granted, these are very simplified, sugar-coated and are the most forgettable moments of the film. It doesn't change the fact that the dinosaurs are and should be the star of the show.

What character development is there in Raiders? None. There is a romance sub-plot, but name an action movie that doesn't have a romance subplot. But no one seems to care about that when it comes to Raiders. It's a thrill-a-minute ride of a movie. And that's all its supposed to be, just like Jurassic Park is just supposed to be a dinosaur movie. Again, I'm not comparing the two, but when it comes to popcorn movies, character development or lack thereof does not make or break these movies because there are countless action and horror classics that do not focus on the characters. If there are good characters (Jaws) it only makes the movie that much better.

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I forgot to say this

Luke, 1983 born too...(and another Williams fan due to JP)

[A24 4,348]

Raiders of the Lost Ark oozes so much magic that deep character development wasn't even needed. All it had to do (and this is what Spielberg used to do extremely well) is introduce the main character to the audience and voila, the world was sold, just like that. In Jaws and E.T. Spielberg was able to do exactly the same. It's an ability that doesn't come so easy anymore. Look at A.I. and Minority Report to see what I mean.

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Alex Cremers

[A24 4,348]

~Karm- who thinks things in life should never be taken too seriously' date=' since it's just a waste of energy to argue over spilt milk and whose cookies taste better. Mmmm cookies. [/quote']

I can't help it. If someone should have the balls to say that Dark Blue is a better movie about corrupt cops than Prince of the City, I simply need to interfere. It's no longer about subjectivity, no, this would be plain ignorance, ignorance due to the lack of experience.

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Alex Cremers

[KarmBee 0]

I can't help it. If someone should have the balls to say that Dark Blue is a better movie about corrupt cops than Prince of the City, I simply need to interfere. It's no longer about subjectivity, no, this would be plain ignorance, ignorance due to the lack of experience.  

Everyone's has a right to voice their opinion. Besides, it's the unpopular opinions that generally have more credibility in the long run, since it's more of a challenge to come up with believable facts that support your opinion. (My unpopular opinion is that Bush is an evil mastermind who planned every single terrorist attack ever, but I'm having dificulties coming up with believable facts...)

~Karm

"The internet has given everyone in America a voice..." -Holden McNeil from Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back

[Jeshopk 8]

Ah, Jurassic Park. Did you know that I actually used Jurassic Park music for a Temp track in a movie that I made in my senior year of high school before it was released? I like to think that my little movie was the first publicly displayed movie using the Jurassic Park music. LOL