Rate "Jurassic Park"!

[Josh500 1,615]

I don't think so. What's funny about that scene, except maybe Wayne Knight's appearance?

He's been presented as "funny weird guy" the whole movie, so his talking to the dinos, slipping on the rocks etc comes across as too cartoonish.

Hmmm, maybe you're right. But I think that's because he's a comedian...

But I think it's perfect the way they did it. It's not outright funny, IMO, just a little weird and terrifying...

The Nedry/dilophosaurus moment is one of my favorite scenes.

The movie is wonderful, and the special effects... man, they still hold up to this day. For some reason, the cgi here works better than in other films that followed. The smart decisions on how to mix CGI with Stan Winston's animatronics were brilliant. I always enjoy this movie when I watch it, but for some reason, I don't revisit it all that often. I give it a 4.

I agree. For some reason, the CGI dinos in JP looks better than the CGI dinos in TLW, I thought...

The brachiosaurus (at the beginning) look much better than the stegosaurus, I thought...

[Jay 37,364]

Why he chose to include Goat Bait over The History Lesson I'll never know...

"Goat Bait"? Is that even scored? Which cue are you talking about...?

The cue I'm talking about is "Goat Bait!" It's presented on the CD as the first part of "Eye to Eye"

[Josh500 1,615]

Why he chose to include Goat Bait over The History Lesson I'll never know...

"Goat Bait"? Is that even scored? Which cue are you talking about...?

The cue I'm talking about is "Goat Bait!" It's presented on the CD as the first part of "Eye to Eye"

Ahhh... and that cue underscores the scene when the goat is eaten by the raptors...?

Sorry, it's been a while since I watched the movie.

[MSM 126]

Is "The History Lesson" the cue that plays when the company is first getting into the jeep?

From my flawed recollection of the film, I can only assume that "The History Lesson" is the animated segment featuring Mr. DNA. I could very well be wrong, though.

Well, that's what I thought.

Next time check if your thoughts are correct before you laugh at someone, ok?

And yes, I think The History Lesson is the best track of the entire JP score.

[Jay 37,364]

Why he chose to include Goat Bait over The History Lesson I'll never know...

"Goat Bait"? Is that even scored? Which cue are you talking about...?

The cue I'm talking about is "Goat Bait!" It's presented on the CD as the first part of "Eye to Eye"

Ahhh... and that cue underscores the scene when the goat is eaten by the raptors...?

Sorry, it's been a while since I watched the movie.

Goat Boat was meant to underscore the scene in which they try to lure the raptors out with a goat, yep. In the final film they went with no music at all. There used to be a youtube video with it synced to the picture but I don't think its up any more...

[Wojo 2,453]

Goat Boat was meant to underscore the scene in which they try to lure...

...a goat into a boat.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I don't think so. What's funny about that scene, except maybe Wayne Knight's appearance?

He's been presented as "funny weird guy" the whole movie, so his talking to the dinos, slipping on the rocks etc comes across as too cartoonish.

I can see how one would think that, especially given the silly sound effect that someone thought would be funny to add (and to be honest, I did think it was funny). Whatever flaws there may have been with that scene, however, I have to say that I really like the panning shot when the camera goes from the "rocking jeep" to the shaving cream can.

[John Crichton 4]

Many older fans don't realize that Jurassic Park and Hook (and all the stuff from the era) are like Jaws and Star Wars to many younger fans. The scores from 70's came later for me. As it stands, JP is one of the scores that made me a film music fan. Ah, the childhood memories.

We do realize it, we just don't comprehend it very well.

[Wojo 2,453]

No, I comprehend it quite well. I know plenty of people who didn't have a Star Wars when they were growing up. They had a Star Wars: Episode I: The Phantom Menace.

Poor kids.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I don't think so. What's funny about that scene, except maybe Wayne Knight's appearance?

He's been presented as "funny weird guy" the whole movie, so his talking to the dinos, slipping on the rocks etc comes across as too cartoonish.

I can see how one would think that, especially given the silly sound effect that someone thought would be funny to add (and to be honest, I did think it was funny). Whatever flaws there may have been with that scene, however, I have to say that I really like the panning shot when the camera goes from the "rocking jeep" to the shaving cream can.

I thought there was a silly sound effect there for the longest time, but I believe it's just bad timing of the dinosaur chirping as he slips.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I do not remember there being a dinosaur when he slipped....

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Uh, seriously? He ties the cable to the tree, talks to the dinosaur, tries to distract it with a stick, slips on the rocks, goes into the Jeep, and gets killed.

[Romão 2,274]

T-Rex Rescue and Finale is almost a concert pice in itself. Such amazing action writing, structure and great example of movie scoring when heard in the picture. And I just adore it's non repetitive nature

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I think my favorite moment of that cue is around the beginning, with that one statement of what I call the Raptor Motiv on the double bass, followed by that wonderful timpani segment with what I seem remember as being muted trombones. Thanks, Merkel, now you got me listening to it.

Uh, seriously? He ties the cable to the tree, talks to the dinosaur, tries to distract it with a stick, slips on the rocks, goes into the Jeep, and gets killed.

For some reason, I seem to remember his first encounter with the Dilophosaurus being after he slipped....

[King Mark 3,631]

Both Spielberg and Williams disappointed me with their efforts. The film doesn't rise above children level and I find the main theme of Williams to be downright weak.

Alex

I think it's one of his most beautiful and majestic themes

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I find it weak as well. It's very PBS.

[Hitch 57]

Movie: 5 stars: Sam Neill, Laura Dern, Jeff Goldblum, Richard Attenborough and of course, the dinosaurs.

Score: Is there a star for this score? I think not

[Josh500 1,615]

I don't think so. What's funny about that scene, except maybe Wayne Knight's appearance?

He's been presented as "funny weird guy" the whole movie, so his talking to the dinos, slipping on the rocks etc comes across as too cartoonish.

I can see how one would think that, especially given the silly sound effect that someone thought would be funny to add (and to be honest, I did think it was funny). Whatever flaws there may have been with that scene, however, I have to say that I really like the panning shot when the camera goes from the "rocking jeep" to the shaving cream can.

I thought there was a silly sound effect there for the longest time, but I believe it's just bad timing of the dinosaur chirping as he slips.

I just rewatched that scene. Yeah, Dennis Nedry is definitely like the weird, uncomfortable class clown. And "HAHAHA, you didn't say the magic word!" is part of it.

BTW, I love how he seems to start JW's track "Dennis Steals the Embryo" with a mouseclick... :cool: It's like he uses that track for timing purposes...

T-Rex Rescue and Finale is almost a concert pice in itself. Such amazing action writing, structure and great example of movie scoring when heard in the picture. And I just adore it's non repetitive nature

Yes, JW's piece "T-Rex Rescue and Finale" makes that part of the movie 3 times more exciting than it would have been otherwise...

BTW, the "control center" of JW looks downright prehistoric compared to what we see nowadays on "24"!

[Wojo 2,453]

And the last season of 24 could probably run circles around the first season of 24 in regards to technological improvements.

Heck, I think even your average episode of CSI could run circles around the technology seen in any episode of Star Trek.

Technology portrayed in a TV show or movie is a microcosm of the times when it was filmed. It's a great way to show high tech in entertainment, but it's also one of the quickest ways to date a show, too.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

BTW, the "control center" of JW looks downright prehistoric compared to what we see nowadays on "24"!

I would imagine so, I am not even sure if John Williams knows how to use a computer!

[Josh500 1,615]

BTW, the "control center" of JW looks downright prehistoric compared to what we see nowadays on "24"!

I would imagine so, I am not even sure if John Williams knows how to use a computer!

I'm sure you are not sure of a lot of things!

And the last season of 24 could probably run circles around the first season of 24 in regards to technological improvements.

Heck, I think even your average episode of CSI could run circles around the technology seen in any episode of Star Trek.

Technology portrayed in a TV show or movie is a microcosm of the times when it was filmed. It's a great way to show high tech in entertainment, but it's also one of the quickest ways to date a show, too.

Yes. I'm sure in 10 years (or even in 5?), we'll be laughing at the technology in "24," saying how dumb we were back in those days! :cool:

[Wojo 2,453]

No, I watch 24 and wonder why real people are as dumb as they are. Because Jack Bauer can solve any crime in 24 hours or less, or your pizza's free. But we still haven't found He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named...

[Henry B 50]

BTW, the "control center" of JW looks downright prehistoric compared to what we see nowadays on "24"!

I would imagine so, I am not even sure if John Williams knows how to use a computer!

I'm sure you are not sure of a lot of things!

What is your problem?

[Josh500 1,615]

* "The History Lesson" - shenanigans with Dr. Grant and the kids as they get into the Jeeps

* "The Trouble with Dennis" - the good guys start to realize something's wrong while Dennis Nedry drives through the storm in the Jeep

* "The T-Rex Chase" - exactly what it sounds like

OK, I just watched some parts of it, and these 3 are my favorite unreleased JP cues...

"The T-Rex Chase" probably tops the list. I love how JW plays with the sound here... has he ever done that before, like this? You hear the T-Rex stomping in the distance a few times, and every time JW accentuates it with some brass instruments... and when Malcom says "I'm starting to panic here" the music starts in earnest. I thought that was very creative and amusing...

And yeah, "History Lesson" is great too! I love this new theme he introduces here (as opposed to the Island Theme played by flutes): light-hearted, but somehow mischievous, curious, I guess inquisitive... maybe this was supposed to be Tim's Theme...

[Datameister 2,043]

And yeah, "History Lesson" is great too! I love this new theme he introduces here (as opposed to the Island Theme played by flutes): light-hearted, but somehow mischievous, curious, I guess inquisitive... maybe this was supposed to be Tim's Theme...

I agree, but wouldn't call that a theme. I mean, it's a theme in the more classical sense - it's a melody that's heard multiple times - but usually when I talk about themes in film scores, I'm referring to a melody that's used and developed in multiple cues.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

BTW, the "control center" of JW looks downright prehistoric compared to what we see nowadays on "24"!

I would imagine so, I am not even sure if John Williams knows how to use a computer!

I'm sure you are not sure of a lot of things!

What is your problem?

Singular form?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yes. I'm sure in 10 years (or even in 5?), we'll be laughing at the technology in "24," saying how dumb we were back in those days!

I'm sure you are sure of a lot of things.

[Josh500 1,615]

And yeah, "History Lesson" is great too! I love this new theme he introduces here (as opposed to the Island Theme played by flutes): light-hearted, but somehow mischievous, curious, I guess inquisitive... maybe this was supposed to be Tim's Theme...

I agree, but wouldn't call that a theme. I mean, it's a theme in the more classical sense - it's a melody that's heard multiple times - but usually when I talk about themes in film scores, I'm referring to a melody that's used and developed in multiple cues.

Yeah, it's only heard 1 1/2 times... but it still would have been a nice theme, I thought....

[Desplat13 1]

Score: 5 Stars

Movie: 4 Stars

I like the 4 note theme better.

Very awesome score. One of my all-time favorites.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Colin, welcome back! WHERE WERE YOU!?

[Josh500 1,615]

I like the 4 note theme better.

You mean the raptors' theme?

[Datameister 2,043]

It's more just for the carnivores in general, though it's used especially frequently with the raptors since they are the main carnivores in the film.

[Josh500 1,615]

It's more just for the carnivores in general, though it's used especially frequently with the raptors since they are the main carnivores in the film.

I always thought that was a theme just for the raptors... and that T-Rex did not have a theme!

[Datameister 2,043]

"The T-Rex Chase" uses that theme all over the place, with no raptors in sight.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Considering that other carnivores such as the Dilophosaurus did not receive the motiv, as well as a statement in The Lost World: Jurassic Park when Ludlow utters "Velociraptors", I think it is safe to say that it is a motiv for the raptors.

EDIT: Oh, does it, Joe? I am not familiar with the unreleased music.

[Josh500 1,615]

"The T-Rex Chase" uses that theme all over the place, with no raptors in sight.

Yes, and that's the exception.

Can you name another example?

[Datameister 2,043]

Can you name another example?

Sure. This one was tracked over in the film with the Island fanfare, but at 6:43 in "T-Rex Rescue & Finale," the four-note theme plays prominently as the T-rex saves the day. Granted, there are also raptors in the scene. But that moment is about the T-rex, not the raptors.

Here's a better question - can you name an example of a scene in the film that depicts a carnivorous dinosaur other than the raptors and was scored with something other than the four-note theme?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

"The T-Rex Chase" uses that theme all over the place, with no raptors in sight.

Yes, and that's the exception.

Can you name another example?

Davis utilised it for the Rex vs Spino Fight.

And most of the Spinosaur other attacks.

The Dilophosaurus didnt had it because the scene is unscored, as fas as we know.

And if the pteranodons dont have it either its just because they are not dinosaurs

In TLW Williams used yet another (and similar) 4 note motif for both Raptors and Rex.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

In TLW Williams used yet another (and similar) 4 note motif for both Raptors and Rex.

Yes, but John Williams did include a statement of the four-note motiv from the first score when Ludlow mentions the Velociraptors.

[Datameister 2,043]

Which are also carnivores. There's no doubt the theme is strongly associated with the raptors, but my point was that it's far from exclusively about them. Any time a carnivorous dinosaur other than a raptor appears in the first film, if there's any music, it involves that four-note theme. Unless I've forgotten something.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's the bad dino theme. End of debate.

[Josh500 1,615]

Which are also carnivores. There's no doubt the theme is strongly associated with the raptors, but my point was that it's far from exclusively about them. Any time a carnivorous dinosaur other than a raptor appears in the first film, if there's any music, it involves that four-note theme. Unless I've forgotten something.

Hmmm, yes, I see what you mean and I agree.

It is strongly associated with the raptors, but it can be used for any carnivorous dino attacking humans. One reason I believe this is correct is because there is no real theme for the T-Rex.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Which are also carnivores. There's no doubt the theme is strongly associated with the raptors, but my point was that it's far from exclusively about them. Any time a carnivorous dinosaur other than a raptor appears in the first film, if there's any music, it involves that four-note theme. Unless I've forgotten something.

Hmmm, yes, I see what you mean and I agree.

It is strongly associated with the raptors, but it can be used for any carnivorous dino attacking humans. One reason I believe this is correct is because there is no real theme for the T-Rex.

nor for any other dinosaur...

In TLW Williams used yet another (and similar) 4 note motif for both Raptors and Rex.

Yes, but John Williams did include a statement of the four-note motiv from the first score when Ludlow mentions the Velociraptors.

its on he CD?

For ages i confounded both motifs and then realised that TLW's was different, it's great if Williams continued the thematical cohesion

[Nick Parker 3,040]

No, it is unreleased. The scene I am referring to takes place right after Malcom and the others are saved by Roland and the InGen team.

[Henry B 50]

I wonder if Williams obsessed this much over what his music signified when he wrote it.

[Datameister 2,043]

Does the fact that he didn't mean that we shouldn't?

[Henry B 50]

No, but I fail to see the point of it. If Williams didn't write the theme with one very rigid association then it's futile to try to figure out what he meant by it. As we know from the famous quote about Leia's theme, Williams doesn't fret too much about using seemingly consistent character themes for unrelated moments when it works musically. That's not to say that I personally know how Williams conceived of the four note motif, but all you're doing is listing each and every appearance of the theme and attempting to find a pattern that just isn't there. In other words, how could there be any deep, underlying meaning to a one time use of the "raptor" motif for the T-rex? It's like saying that Leia's theme is used during Ben's death to represent the contribution Ben had made to the Clone Wars under Leia's father. Grasping at straws.

[Datameister 2,043]

I'm simply pointing out that any time there's music in a scene with any carnivorous dinosaur, that theme is used, with the exception of a few parts with the raptors. I'm sorry if you think that's a pointless observation - I, in turn, fail to see the point in you telling us this is pointless. Your time might be better spent doing stuff that you find more...pointful.

However, while you're here...your analogy to Leia's theme fails because the theme we're talking about is never declared as relating to anything in particular. Princess Leia's theme is Princess Leia's theme because JW said it is. Yes, there are a few extraneous statements because, as you said, Williams is not terribly strict about NEVER using his themes when the things they represent aren't really in play. But the raptor/carnivore/4-note theme is never given a name or an explicit purpose. All we have is the instances in which it is used, and those clearly are not raptor-exclusive. It seems to be a loosely defined leitmotif for the carnivorous dinosaurs, with an especial emphasis on the ones who play the largest role in the film (raptors), and nothing more specific than that.

FWIW, by the way, I referred to it as the raptor theme for a long time. It was only fairly recently that I realized that there were good reasons to abandon such a strict and limited definition.

[Desplat13 1]

I was actually talking about the Island theme, I think. The awesome sweeping one, which should have won the best theme contest way back when. Out of curiosity, which theme did end up winning that contest?

Glad I could spark a little debate about the 'bad dino' theme. I like that one too.

[John Crichton 4]

I was actually talking about the Island theme, I think. The awesome sweeping one, which should have won the best theme contest way back when. Out of curiosity, which theme did end up winning that contest?

The Force theme, of course.