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John Williams - Low Quantity Alerts!

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Isn't Jaws 2 virtually complete? I doubt it will see an expansion, although it may be reissued.

It could be expanded. The main title appears to be an alternate version and there are some extensions to the album cues and some unreleased bits that could be added, Plus there could always be music Williams composed that was not used at all.

I also want Jaws 2 expanded reissue, I don't even have the original, only the CD-R ... :( And I also very much miss both The Fury and SpaceCamp which I somehow managed to miss ... :( Oh, I'm depressed now. :|

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Isn't Jaws 2 virtually complete? I doubt it will see an expansion, although it may be reissued.

I meant to include reissues as well. What I'm saying is, The Fury already got the complete and limited label treatment, so the odds of that being reissued and/or remastered are a lot less likely than Jaws 2, which is an OST that's been long OOP.

I appreciate your point, but for me the deciding factor is primarily the music itself. Even though I know the Varese edition of Jaws 2 is not complete, I had to have it because I've seen the movie several times, and simply wanted to have the music. That's the most I have ever spend on a CD, I believe: about 50 bucks? (or was it even more? I honestly can't remember anymore)

If it is expanded again in the future, well... I will probably get that too.

______

OK, this has probably been mentioned ten times here, but I read this just now, on the BLACK SUNDAY release:

A final note about this release: In recent years, a limited edition of this sort would sell out quickly. FSM has negotiated with the American Federation of Musicians (whose players performed the music and are due “re-use” fees for the album) to make this CD a limited edition of 10,000 copies (not the customary 3,000)—enough so that everyone can get one. But if your response to this is, “Good, I’ll get it later”—truly no good deed goes unpunished, and we’ll never try this again! Black Sunday is John Williams action scoring circa 1977—what are you waiting for? Buy it now!

So anybody know how many copies are still left?

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These labels only get the license to a film score for a certain amount of time (seems to usually be around 5 years or so). After that, even if they have unsold copies, the title is Out Of Print - they are not allowed to sell more unless they purchase another license

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Well, Black Sunday had a lot more appeal than HA2. The former was an entirely unreleased score from what is considered by many to be JW's golden age. The latter already had a 1 hour OST, and it had a lot of accusations of being derivative of the first score. I still agree with Jason, I just think this distinction is worth pointing out.

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I think FSM needs to think in terms like how La-La Land and Intrada do. Black Sunday is probably one of those obscure scores that won't click with most. It was a blind buy for me and I actually think it's not too bad at all and like it a bit.

If it was going to be a popular title then I could see it being a 10,000 unit run. Just like when Intrada released Back To The Future. Back To The Future has a more popular fan base than Black Sunday does and Intrada was able to negotiate for a 10,000 unit release.

If memory serves me right I think they are down into the 200's range now for how many copies Intrada has for BTTF.

FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I think that's where FSM shoots themselves in the foot is because they tend to do go overboard on some of the releases for the size of the run. The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Speaking of Trek, we all know FSM made Star Trek's II and III's complete scores unlimited and those two are popular scores and were often requested. If I remember right I think Lukas said that both titles have sold either 5,000 or over 5,000 units each.

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Yup, I agree. I think in a way it shows their devotion to the fans above all - they're in this to get great music released for reasonable prices, not to become billionaires. But I don't think anyone would mind if they became a little less selfless and started looking out for themselves more by only pressing enough copies that they know will sell. On the other hand, Intrada and Varese and sometimes LLL are constantly underestimating how well their titles will sell (ie SpaceCamp, Poseidon Adventure, Goonies, etc.). I think FSM may be the label that cares the most about the fans, but I don't think anyone's angry at the other labels for acting a little less selflessly.

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OK, Spacecamp, which had a previous release, sold 3,000 copies within 24 hours.

And Black Sunday, which had no previous release (and which is touted as a vintage JW action score of the golden 70s) won't sell 10,000 within 5 years?

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Hard-to-get 80's scores seem to have a higher market value and demand than unreleased stuff from the 70's that fewer people have heard of. Plus, speculators probably bought up loads of SpaceCamp CDs and sat on them so their previous investments aren't devalued.

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FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I don't agree at all. It's Intrada and Kritzerland and the rest that should follow in FSM's footsteps. If everyone started to act a little less selfishly - like FSM - it can only be for the benefit of soundtrack collecting on CD. It's Intrada and the rest that shoots the hobby in the foot. If I was a new fan coming to the hobby now (and after teen years coming to be able to order limited editions etc.) - as opposed to a decade ago - I would soon give up, as I discovered that so many holy grails have come and gone; and I would just go with illegal downloads.

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If all the labels followed FSM, they might go out of business.

Film score fans may not like it, but Doug Fake, Bruce Kimmel, Robert Townson and MV Gerhard know what they are doing. And the way Lukas talks at times makes me wonder if perhaps there have been moments where FSM might have ceased to exist.

If anything Lukas needs to follow the lead of the rest of the labels when it comes to some of these lesser known or Golden age scores, and limit those to 1000 to 2000.

But i will say that the labels also know the demand for certain scores and they do take that into consideration when they can.

So it's possible Lukas knew what he was doing by making Trek II & III unlimited and allowing 10,000 for Black Sunday and Poltergeist.

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The fact is that scores with a bigger, action-adventure-y, bombastic orchestral sound just sell more than quieter suspense score.

There are more than 10,000 people on this planet that want to have Back To The Future or SpaceCamp in their collections.... but there probably aren't that many that need Black Sunday or Family Plot.

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If all the labels followed FSM, they might go out of business.

No, that's precisely my point: if all the labels followed FSM, none of them would go out of business and they would stay around longer - now, only FSM might go out of business. But this would be a long-term approach. On the short term, of course you make more money limiting CDs to 1000 copies.

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The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Is this set being advertised at the large Star Trek geek websites? A lot of Star Trek geeks may be soundtrack collectors who aren't aware of the sites like SAE and FSM that advertise them.

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The Ron Jones Star Trek TNG set being a good example of this. I know Lukas poured his heart and soul into that release but the TV series scores just don't have a large fan base like the Star Trek film scores do. Personally if Lukas had limited the set to 3,000units it may have been doing better than it is now.

Is this set being advertised at the large Star Trek geek websites? A lot of Star Trek geeks may be soundtrack collectors who aren't aware of the sites like SAE and FSM that advertise them.

I've seen it advertised at Trekmovie.com and I think The Digital Bits.

I personally think 1000 units would be enough for the box. I think there's a large enough fanbase there, but not for that price and this much.

Especially when your average Trekkie still has several collectible plates to buy.

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FSM does need to make a standard like Intrada and LLL. More obscure scores like Black Sunday limit to 3,000 copies, maybe 5,000 at the most depending on the popularity of the title and how often it's been requested.

I don't agree at all. It's Intrada and Kritzerland and the rest that should follow in FSM's footsteps. If everyone started to act a little less selfishly - like FSM - it can only be for the benefit of soundtrack collecting on CD. It's Intrada and the rest that shoots the hobby in the foot. If I was a new fan coming to the hobby now (and after teen years coming to be able to order limited editions etc.) - as opposed to a decade ago - I would soon give up, as I discovered that so many holy grails have come and gone; and I would just go with illegal downloads.

But the issue isn't just underestimating demand or pleasing fans; it's what they're allowed to press.

And hasn't Lukas mentioned how close to the bone FSM has come regarding liquidity? I think he said he pressed more copies of some score as they needed the money. Pleasing the fans he may be, but it's at a higher risk.

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But the issue isn't just underestimating demand or pleasing fans; it's what they're allowed to press.

I know, but I think those are exceptions - and I don't think there are many releases where the studio is restricting labels to press only 1000 or so. 3000 perhaps, yes.

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Two possibilities.

The first may be that the owners of the license, the studios, want to get paid as quickly for their troubles as possible. I don't know if the labels pay the studios up front for the right to sell the music, or if they pay based on how many units they sell. There would be some negotiation to reach a certain number. The studios believe (quite correctly) that this industry is a niche hobby that only appeals to a select group of consumers, not the general public. These albums are not sold en masse to brick and mortar shops worldwide, but only in a select few online outlets. By placing a finite number of units for sale, they limit supply. This gives consumers only a limited amount of time in which to buy these albums, which increases demand. The quicker they sell out, the quicker the labels make back their investment.

I'm not sure what happened to the soundtrack industry overall that signified the end of selling mass marketed expanded soundtracks in stores -- Star Wars SE comes to mind, and I'm grateful for TLOTR: CR -- but the online labels have inherited the majority of this niche.

The other possibility is that the studios are simply establishing and enforcing a rule on the contract. Their limit on the number of physical media is no different than the requirement that car tires be black: we say jump, you say how high.

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I'm not sure what happened to the soundtrack industry overall that signified the end of selling mass marketed expanded soundtracks in stores -- Star Wars SE comes to mind, and I'm grateful for TLOTR: CR -- but the online labels have inherited the majority of this niche.

I'd guess because a lot of our grails as such were recorded in England, where as far as I remember, the rules are a lot different and you can get away with doing a lot more for a lot less, as opposed to US-recorded scores. So SW, Raiders, The Omen trilogy, Poltergeist, LOTR, Superman, we could have all these in stores as unlimited releases because the fees were a lot less.

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Amazing Stories Anthologies 1 and 3 are sold out (at least at Intrada)! I think Anthology 2 may also be gone. It says "Sold Out!" on the description, but it is still possible to add it to one's cart, and it says "Out of Stock" next to the title.

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There are more than 10,000 people on this planet that want to have Back To The Future or SpaceCamp in their collections....

I doubt there are more than 10,000 people who want to have the CD to Spacecamp.

In other news, it appears that Monsignor has finally sold out. Still some discounted at Amazon.

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Alrighty then. Main post updated to indicate that all 3 Amazing Stories volumes, as well as Monsignor are sold out

If you want them and can find them at another retailer, buy them now!

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No.

ETAndElliot said:

Kind of on the fence with Amazing Stories 2. I want it for completeness sake, but not for $30.

And you replied:

At this point, the price will only go up over time

So you're saying he should get it, even though 30 bucks is too expensive for him even now?

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It's simple. If a limited product is out-of-print, the demand is high. Therefore, the price will be high, and will rise and fall depending on the market. $30 is probably the cheapest you will be able to get the set for, unless you find a good-natured seller on FSM who just wants to get rid of their CD. So yes, if Justin wants it, he should buy it now before it's gone.

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If one can't swing the money then that's no problem and I don't think anyone would criticize one for choosing to spend on what they truly want.

Personally I think all three sets are worth it if you really enjoy good film music. Having Williams score two episodes and provide the theme was just icing on top of a cake that was already good to begin with.

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I hear they're good, but 90 bucks for 3 CDs, and maybe only an hour of JW material in total... ? :huh:

It's 6 CDs, actually.

I got these when the low quantity alert first went up at Intrada, back in October I think it was.

Haven't regretted it.

Haven't listened to them in a while either, actually.

Been transitioning to a new hard drive and haven't taken the time to rebuild my Winamp library yet.

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If one can't swing the money then that's no problem and I don't think anyone would criticize one for choosing to spend on what they truly want.

Personally I think all three sets are worth it if you really enjoy good film music. Having Williams score two episodes and provide the theme was just icing on top of a cake that was already good to begin with.

Exactly. I certainly have to pick and choose which CD releases I want. I always grab my "can't miss" titles, but there's quite a few I'd like to check out but miss out on due to lack of funds.

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Personally I think all three sets are worth it if you really enjoy good film music. Having Williams score two episodes and provide the theme was just icing on top of a cake that was already good to begin with.

Absolutely! The various Amblin logo & bumper cues are all essentials for any JW fan too.

:cool:

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