indy4 155 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 At some point I'd like to get this, hopefully sometime soon. What is the best release? Price is a factor, but I'd also like to know just from a quality stand point. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 It is said that the Varujan Kojian and Utah Symphony Orchestra performance is the liveliest but I do like the Stromberg/Morgan and Moscow Symphony Orchestra's interpretation of the complete score very much. I do not know how readily available the Utah Symphony album (about 45 min. of music) is but the complete score recording by the Moscow Symphony is available on Naxos label and for a bargain price. You also get the score for Deception, another Korngold score, on top of the complete Sea Hawk score on that double CD set. Here is a link to the Naxos set:http://www.amazon.co...wwwnaxoscom-20# Indianagirl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 As always, Morgan/Stromberg are complete and very good. As always, their one lacking point is that they don't sound quite as idiomatic as their competitors. A bit more so in this case, as the vocalists have a seriously thick Russian accent, which makes the song somewhat comic. Still an excellent recording, to be sure. Utah/Kojian is brief, but very energetic. BBC/Gamba is great as well, and longer than Kojian. And as usual, the Gerhardt suites are essential.Korngold's original recording is available on Tsunami (or at least was at one point). As far as I recall, his own main title is notably slower than the typical re-recording; slower, in fact, than seems typical for Korngold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 They are both cheap and easily accessible, so I'd go for both (in this case and also in the case of Robin Hood) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The best recording IMO is this one: http://www.amazon.com/Korngold-Private-Elizabeth-Captain-Prince/dp/B00005UW3Z/ref=sr_1_7?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1324238527&sr=1-7Unfortunately, it doesn't have the entire score, but it has some great selections of other Korngold scores.The sound quality is superb, as always with the LSO, and the performances are flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I personally found that recording very lackluster, specially given the pedigree involved. It has a great selection of tracks, but I'd hardly call any of them among the best interpretations of the given work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I personally found that recording very lackluster, specially given the pedigree involved. It has a great selection of tracks, but I'd hardly call any of them among the best interpretations of the given workWhat do you mean by pedigree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Got the Naxos recording. It's the only recording of the complete score so I'd go with that one. And then I'd add some Charles Gerhardt conducted compilation for good measure.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 The Gerhardt recording is superb, I agree.Not really the place to ask I know - but btw does anyone have the Gerhardt recording of Constant Nymph ouverture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indy4 155 Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Thanks for all the input, everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I personally found that recording very lackluster, specially given the pedigree involved. It has a great selection of tracks, but I'd hardly call any of them among the best interpretations of the given workWhat do you mean by pedigree?I meant the quality of the conductor and the orchestra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I personally found that recording very lackluster, specially given the pedigree involved. It has a great selection of tracks, but I'd hardly call any of them among the best interpretations of the given workIt's not a bad disc, and I think it gets worse reviews than it deserves. But it's hardly up there with the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I personally found that recording very lackluster, specially given the pedigree involved. It has a great selection of tracks, but I'd hardly call any of them among the best interpretations of the given workWhat do you mean by pedigree?I meant the quality of the conductor and the orchestraAndre Previn and the LSO? You hardly get any better. The tempi might be a bit slow at times (especially when compared to Gerhardt) but overall this is an excellent recording, crisp, clear and with the best brass sound I have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 But that's exactly my point. Given the talent involved, I was expecting much better than I got. It's a good recording sound wise, but there's no punch to the performance. It just sounds so tame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSM 126 Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 But that's exactly my point. Given the talent involved, I was expecting much better than I got. It's a good recording sound wise, but there's no punch to the performance. It just sounds so tameIs does sound generic, but sometimes I like it there not too much (over)interpretation. It does sound natural which I find more satisfying with Korngold than edgy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 What's the best choice:Gamba, played more lively, but not complete.Morgan/Stromberg, played less lively, but complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I would get both. You can't have too many recordings of this great score. Speaking of which I still have to get the Rumon Gamba conducted release.If you should get just one I would perhaps lean towards the complete presentation, despite the slight Russian pronounciation of the soloist and choral sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Ok, thank you, Incanus!Well, maybe i'll get both. It's only 30 euros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Morgan/Stromberg, Gamba and Kojian are all worth it. And be sure to track down those Gerhardts, too - and not just for the Sea Hawk stuff.The OST, in this case, can be skipped in my opinion. Doesn't mean I wouldn't buy a remastered/complete release of that, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Ok, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Get all of them! All!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Get all of them! All!!!!That's the sensible thing to do, of course.Buy all the versions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 8, 2012 Share Posted May 8, 2012 Now we are on the same page. The only difference is that I forgot to use such snazzy image with my statement to give it extra validity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Ordered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 But that's exactly my point. Given the talent involved, I was expecting much better than I got. It's a good recording sound wise, but there's no punch to the performance. It just sounds so tameI completely agree. My favorite recording is the Utah Symphony/Kojian, but then again I miss the Morgan/Stromberg and Gamba ones... Guess it's time to correct that.But by all means, check the Gerhardt recordings, a must for anyone vaguely interested in classic Hollywood film scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I received The Sea Hawk today.I was thrilled to pop it into my cd player... And the Main Title started playing! This is a wonderful score. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Woods 555 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 The Morgan/Stromberg re-recording is one of the greatest re-recordings of all time!http://www.cinematicsound.net/?p=1251However, the Kojian truncated album is nothing to sneeze at either!-Erik- Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 All this talk of the score made me wonder what is the Rumon Gamba version like so I bought it. EDIT: Quick listen would indicate Gamba's interpretation is more concertized than the Morgan/Stromberg version as he clearly doesn't try to catch the exact filmic feel of many passages, where Korngold would have had the music intricate and fast, but rather offers a broad stroked but great concert suite interpretation of the score condensed into this 76 minute suite. The BBC Philharmonics are in good shape in this one, the recording venue complementing the music with a spacious grand sound although the mix sounds a bit wet.And I have to say you really have to be in the right mind set and mood for this music, so intricate are the orchestrations, so lively and boisterous is the spirit of the score. But undoubtedly this is Korngold's crowning achievement! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 IMO, the best recording of The Sea Hawk is without a doubt Kojian's. Far from complete, but a perfect 40 minute suite. On 12/18/2011 at 9:30 PM, MSM said: The Gerhardt recording is superb, I agree. Not really the place to ask I know - but btw does anyone have the Gerhardt recording of Constant Nymph ouverture? I think I have a spare copy of the Tsunami release of The Constant Nymph, which I could sell at a reasonable price. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Kojian, while incomplete and not perfect, is my favorite album of this score as well. I long for a remastered official reissue of the complete original tracks though (the Tsunami was only a single disc). Nobody conducted Korngold as well as Korngold, IMO. And of course I'm still very grateful for the complete Naxos release even though it does have some issues like the Russian singers' English pronunciation. Yavar Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 You should hear English singer's Russian pronunciation. I can't quite stomach The Hunt for the Red October for this very reason. It can be quite painful. 😂 Karol Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 13 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Kojian, while incomplete and not perfect, is my favorite album of this score as well. I long for a remastered official reissue of the complete original tracks though (the Tsunami was only a single disc). Nobody conducted Korngold as well as Korngold, IMO. And of course I'm still very grateful for the complete Naxos release even though it does have some issues like the Russian singers' English pronunciation. Yavar I don't get why they didn't record the choir separately when they got back to the USA. A cheap amateur choir would easily sound better than what they recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Well this was before Bill/Anna/John started their own label, so I strongly suspect it wasn't their call in this case. Makes me tempted to stitch in the vocal portions from the Gamba Chandos recording though... Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Nobody conducted Korngold as well as Gerhardt, IMO. Fixed. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 You really think he conducted Korngold better than the composer himself did? Sorry, I can't get on board with that. There's just something missing. But I do think William Stromberg conducts Bernard Herrmann better than anyone else (including Herrmann). Esa-Pekka Salonen and James Conlon came close with their single efforts. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 10 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: You really think he conducted Korngold better than the composer himself did? Sorry, I can't get on board with that. There's just something missing. I definitely do. It's not exactly a fair comparison though. As far as I know, Korngold conducted his film score music exactly once, when recording it for the film (aside from adaptations into other concert works, which are very different from the original film versions), so was limited by having to fit it to the on screen action and also I imagine by the limited technology and experience at the time (no sophisticated click tracks etc.). As a result, they sound a bit flat to me, whereas Gerhardt recorded everything in the form of concert suites, with free tempi and tempo changes. He was able to play these works as pure music, and interpret them as pure music, which gives them a musical dimension that could not possibly have in their original film versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 On 6/1/2018 at 9:19 PM, Yavar Moradi said: Well this was before Bill/Anna/John started their own label, so I strongly suspect it wasn't their call in this case. Makes me tempted to stitch in the vocal portions from the Gamba Chandos recording though... Yavar Did they use a non-Russian choir for any of their Tribute releases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Did they use a non-Russian choir for any of their Tribute releases? I think She is the only Tribute recording that has a choir — yes Russian, but I’m also fairly sure wordless so it doesn’t really matter. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I only have the Kojian one, but that's great. I have no idea what it goes for on the secondary market these days. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: I think She is the only Tribute recording that has a choir — yes Russian, but I’m also fairly sure wordless so it doesn’t really matter. Yavar They probably got a discount - two for the price of one. 3 minutes ago, Thor said: I only have the Kojian one, but that's great. I have no idea what it goes for on the secondary market these days. I'd say it's the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 Saw this thread pop up so did a quick litmus test using the main titles of all the versions I own (which I think is all of them apart from the original tracks which, as far as I recall, haven't been properly released on CD). I do like the Tribute version a lot, but I think my main issue with their Korngold is that it doesn't quite have that Straussian opulence that Korngold demands (kinda the anti-Herrmann!). The brass doesn't blaze as brightly or the strings shimmer and swoon as seductively (go me on the alliteration). Also, from the opening titles, the brass doesn't quite have consistency of tone on all those tricky fanfares that the others do. The Kojian is the recording of more than just a suite that I've had the longest and tends to be my go-to. The slightly more bracing tempos were probably murderous for the players (again, especially the brass) but the performance (and recording) is pretty spectacular, attacking it with all the gusto it depends. The Gamba version on Chandos has a slightly longer selection the BBC Phil perform pretty marvellously, plus Chandos has a pretty lustrous recording aesthetic which I think works well for this type of music. The Gerhardt is certainly an exceptionally performed suite and better than Previn with the LSO which is surprisingly average given the calibre of the conductor and orchestra. Having said all of that, it's pretty well an embarrassment of riches for The Sea Hawk. All are worth hearing, but for my money (in alphabetical order by conductor surname): Gamba - Excellent performance and sound, perhaps the ideal length of selection if you don't want the whole thing. Kojian - Superb performance and sound, albeit a less than half the score. Stromberg - Complete, great sound and generally fine performance, albeit without that lustrous sheen of performance or recording that the others have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted January 23, 2021 Share Posted January 23, 2021 I'd say Gerhardt/Kojian/Gamba/Stromberg represent a good gamut of versions to own if you want to be able to pick your preferred balance between performance and completeness on a day by day basis. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Here is a nice live performance of the overture from the BBC Proms in 2019 by the John Wilson Orchestra. Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Someone should release all of JWO's Proms Korngold recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 43 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: Someone should release all of JWO's Proms Korngold recordings. Agreed. He knows exactly how to get that lustrous sound and energetic flair from the music. His recording of Korngold’s symphony is superb (although much more angular and modern sounding than his film music). Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omen II 1,235 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: Someone should release all of JWO's Proms Korngold recordings. I am a little disappointed that their performance of Tomorrow from The Constant Nymph (performed at the end of the same concert as the clip posted above and sung by American mezzo soprano Kate Lindsey) has not yet made it to YouTube. It was magnificent, my highlight of the Proms season that year. John Wilson is certainly a great interpreter of Korngold's music. I have also seen him conduct the likes of Kings Row with the BBC Symphony Orchestra and even Escape Me Never with the London Philharmonic Orchestra. And before you ask: no, I didn't touch him. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,076 Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 35 minutes ago, Omen II said: I have also seen him conduct the likes of Kings Row Star Wars, you surely mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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